Hi,
I am new to k-meleon.
I go to edit preferences.
But, there is no display.
So,
please can any one tell me how .
Using 1.5.3

cheers,
sel

This is NOT in version 1.5.3
or if it is ....... Where ?
Open K-Meleon, go to Edit>Preferences>Display>Skin and select a skin from the list.


Please someone must know

How 2 change skins ??

sel

thanks

Ya know, different programs have different menus, there is no standard :cool:
In KM, just try the very first in the list to find skins: GUI Appearance...
(And don't forget to enable the background, it's directly below the skin field)

F2/Preferences -> GUI Appearance -> General -> Skin
Select new skin in drop down menu and restart the browser.

& as siria says: also check the other settings.

siria's background collection.

More 1.5.x skins are in Wiki and in archives at http://two.xthost.info/kmupdate/skins

The skins react to the name of items e.g. back.bmp = background. main.ico that is the one shown by system. The items can be exchanged between skins. All changes in skins require a restart.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2010 12:39PM by guenter.

Hi,

Thank you.

Yeah....... a dumbo I am ..

But You solved my problem.

Thanks heaps.

Kept my faith in KM as a Great Browser

Thank You ALL again

cheers,
sel

Quote
sel

Kept my faith in KM as a Great Browser

sel

If this tiny minor problem shaked your faith in Km, than I think your faith was not strong from the very start.

Hi Panzer,

My point is

I found KM and liked it a lot.

I found "past" versions that allowed Skin renewal.

Then installed 1.5.3 and

found that I could not install new skins.

What I had to do was "Get rid of all other installs"

This done .......... ALL now is O.K.

Faith is a virtue .

KM 4 me

Thanks Panzer


cheers,
sel

Sorry Sel!!
I had the wrong assumption that you were one of those kids that come from some other browser and now expect everything to work the exact same way, when in reality you only quoted the CURRENT official KM wiki page!
http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/wiki/ChangeSkin

Quote
wiki
* Extract the files into "C:\Program Files\K-Meleon\skins".
* Open K-Meleon, go to Edit>Preferences>Display>Skin and select a skin from the list.

Just slightly outdated, last update from March 2005, for version KM 0.9 *rolleyes*

Hardly anyone feels much like updating the wiki, but that's no wonder, I've learned meanwhile that some people intentionally keep it so outdated, and that's absolutely demotivating for UPdating. Even harmless tiny hints like the word "(dated)" for manuals from 2003 are getting removed :-/

Skin code has changed slightly with the browser versions.

Skin versions belong to major browser versions. Recently 1.x | 1.1.x | 1.5.x.

Skin with installers exist e.g. on jujuland's page.

You can create 150 or so more installers for 1.5.x skins when You download the bigger archive I mentioned and run the _1MakeAll.cmd . Skins that must be unzipped like 0.9 skins are the minority. & thus there is no reason to update the Wiki - nothing changed about unzipping

siria, we have no English devs or documenters (Andrew has not been active since 0.9) - so who should update the English Wiki :s



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2010 04:08PM by guenter.

Quote
siria
Sorry Sel!!
I had the wrong assumption that you were one of those kids that come from some other browser and now expect everything to work the exact same way, when in reality you only quoted the CURRENT official KM wiki page!
http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/wiki/ChangeSkin

Quote
wiki
* Extract the files into "C:\Program Files\K-Meleon\skins".
* Open K-Meleon, go to Edit>Preferences>Display>Skin and select a skin from the list.

Just slightly outdated, last update from March 2005, for version KM 0.9 *rolleyes*

Hardly anyone feels much like updating the wiki, but that's no wonder, I've learned meanwhile that some people intentionally keep it so outdated, and that's absolutely demotivating for UPdating. Even harmless tiny hints like the word "(dated)" for manuals from 2003 are getting removed :-/

adding (outdated) to the wiki links isn't really updating.. updating is when you check internal links its referring and update those pages. there are numerous outdated internal pages..if you will go on a hunt to outdate then you'll need to edit almost all the pages and add that(outdated)..now, is that really helpful to the end-user?

there are so many pages in the wiki and some get overlooked or forgotten; james and desga do update the wikis when their time allows..now if you add (outdated) to every link and someone does indeed update that page, he will not know that someone has labelled a backlink somewhere as(outdated), and then they will need to check all backlinks and remove (outdated).

that's not how you update wikis siria.

that changeskin wiki is outdated..true, but it's not that out-of-date because it was simply updated in 2005.. this page was valid right to 1.1.6.. i.e it only became out of date with version 1.5.0 and quite recently

all that page needs is changing display>skin to gui appearance. now what is the real update, modifying that page and replacing ;display' by 'gui appearance' or going after every backlink and adding 'outdated' to it?

apparently the only "updates" you're concerned with is changing terminologies to firefox so it suits you better... if you really want to do an update, i just gave you an example but are you really willing to go over all 'outdated' pages and update them instead of easily labelling the backlinks as outdated and then you tell us that was an update and when someone objects to that, you claim people dont want the wiki to be updated..

Quote
guenter
Skins that must be unzipped like 0.9 skins are the minority. & thus there is no reason to update the Wiki - nothing changed about unzipping

Sorry Guenter but... You sure??

Quote
wiki
CURRENT official KM wiki page:
http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/wiki/ChangeSkin
* Extract the files into "C:\Program Files\K-Meleon\skins".
* Open K-Meleon, go to Edit>Preferences>Display>Skin and select a skin from the list.

Quote
sel
This is NOT in version 1.5.3... or if it is ....... Where ?
Open K-Meleon, go to Edit>Preferences>Display>Skin and select a skin from the list.
Please someone must know. How 2 change skins ??

Quote
guenter
F2/Preferences -> GUI Appearance -> General -> Skin
Select new skin in drop down menu and restart the browser.

Btw, thanx for all your work on the skins, that sure is important!

Quote
guenter
siria, we have no English devs or documenters (Andrew has not been active since 0.9) - so who should update the English Wiki :s

Err... I was under the impression that the forum is full with english speaking people, who know the browser sufficiently? When I look around, well... :cool: Seriously, the wiki itself is practically begging you all over the place "Update me!", and if even I can, so can certainly half the people here, why should only devs do that?? Those rare guys shall rather spend their precious time on also much needed developing (I know we all agree on that )

Quote
disrupted
you'll need to edit almost all the pages and add that(outdated)..now, is that really helpful to the end-user?

Is it any more helpful if the instructions on the pages are WRONG, and then people who even had the energy to search through the wiki and manuals to figure out (for example) how to change skins, will only waste their time and nerves and find that this browser "still doesn't work"? Only a tiny fraction of them will have enough perseverance and interest to even go posting in the forum about it, but the big majority will give up frustrated after some struggling and tell everyone that thing is crappy, that this browser can't even change skins, or if it can, that it's at least extremely complicated to customize. Is that any more helpful, to the browser or anyone??

Quote
disrupted
now if you add (outdated) to every link and someone does indeed update that page, he will not know that someone has labelled a backlink somewhere as(outdated), and then they will need to check all backlinks and remove (outdated).

Nonsense, on most pages it would need only simple things like updating changed menu entries or such, so instead of adding "outdated" to "almost all" pages that link there, one would rather update the page right away. I'm not talking of such minor stuff, but of the removed hint for the MANUAL.
If it's something bigger, like the macro-instructions or the manual, and you update such a 'project', you could probably also manage to take a look at the ten or so pages that link there and check them, if there might be something more to update. But even if you forget, and that bad word stays there, IMHO the damage is still LESS than driving people away with wrong instructions, while making them believe those were the current ones, thus giving the browser itself a bad reputation.

But as an alternative, if you don't want to write "outdated" on the links to those BIG AND COMPLICATED pages, you can still write that information -but easy to notice please- in the title of the page itself. For most wiki pages that would work just as well, but not for the manual, because that "book" has no wiki edit functions! No idea who can edit that one, but obviously in 6 years no one did, and for good reasons. I understand full well that this project is just too big and scary, but if ever anyone would manage to update it, he'd certainly be capable to do the (in comparison) tiny extra effort and remove the "outdated" word in the few pages that link there. But misleading people and giving the browser a bad name because of 6 year outdated and wrong instructions causes just too much harm. And once something has a bad reputation, that will circulate forever :-(

Quote
disrupted
apparently the only "updates" you're concerned with is changing terminologies to firefox so it suits you better...

Sorry but that's nonsense. I don't care about firefox, but I don't hate it either. And the word "add-on" is not even firefox terminology only, it's also used by IE and lots of other programs too, it's today a "general" word. So having that 1x on a page, along with 10 or 20 times the word "macro" or "extensions", can hardly do any harm, huh. And may I remind you, that yourself didn't remove that one instance of that word.
By the way, just as anecdote, and you'll understand I can't resist this: To my amazement it turned out that even the very oldest wiki page for "Downloads" contained already the term "add-on", and that was since 2003 :cool: And no one seems to have had any problem with it since...

Quote

http://kmeleonbrowser.org/wiki/view;Download?version=1 (in 2003)
Looking for K-Meleon add-ons, plugins, skins, and translations?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2010 07:59PM by siria.

And by the way, that bad word (dated) that you removed now form the MANUAL was NOT from me either. Someone had added it there in January 2004, and until now NO one seems to have thought that were somehow bad wiki style. Strange...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2010 08:04PM by siria.

Quote
siria
Sorry but that's nonsense. I don't care about firefox, but I don't hate it either. And the word "add-on" is not even firefox terminology only, it's also used by IE and lots of other programs too, it's today a "general" word. [/color]

really? those links must prove your case then
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_extension
http://wiki.avantforce.com/index.php?title=Orca_Extension_List
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Firefox_extensions
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/60271/best-way-to-write-a-safari-extension
http://my.opera.com/Rijk/blog/2006/07/04/top-150-popular-firefox-extensions-and-opera
https://chrome.google.com/extensions
http://code.google.com/chrome/extensions/
http://www.chromeplugins.org/category/extensions/
http://virtuelvis.com/archives/2005/01/opera-and-firefox-extensions


even mozilla whom you're so hooked on their terminologies uses extensions in their dev inside notes.. go figure
https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Extensions

so who is using the term add-ons officially now: mozilla and ms, ms has been using an even worse term for years(plugins for all), they want to get popular with the layperson who doesn't know any better so they have endorsed mozillas(just like you want).. but take a wild guess what is the term their devs are using when they speak of your beloved word add-ons?

i kept add-on in the wiki in its proper context while you were trying to change extensions and double quoting it and adding add-ons in brackets implying that that was the right word. perhaps add-on is becoming the general term in german but it isn't in english and it is still associated mostly with mozilla. you can edit/create the german wiki as you want...for all i care you can call it strap-on..

Because of some double quotes, it's incredible...

That's the version in question, that I had edited last week (191), and the whole chapter went like this:

Quote

http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/wiki/view;MacroLibrary?version=191

More Macros / Extensions

Countless more macros as well as some more complex "extensions" (K-Meleon "Add-ons") can be found in the K-Meleon extensions centers, see links in the Resources page. And also in the Forum is now an own section for "K-Meleon extensions" (incl. normal macros). Those are the most up-to-date sources currently (Dec.2009)

You can count here exactly 1 "addon" and 7 "macros+extensions", and that you call "trying to change extensions and double quoting it and adding add-ons in brackets implying that that was the right word"? Sorry if you read it that way, but the way those first quotes were actually intended is just to explain, for the "laymen" out there: "What you're looking for and know as "add-ons" in "non-kmeleon-speak" is called "extensions" in "K-meleon-speak", just like one would explain to a foreigner: A "house" in english is a "maison" in french, that's all that was to it. And in the second sentence the quotes were meant to quote the TITLE of the concerned sub-forum, so that people find it quickest with the exact same name. If I had known that some harmless double quotes would be read and interpreted so differently and with such heavy feelings, I certainly wouldn't have used them!

Extensions it is, but I've heard of "add-on" for what seems to be my whole life (in the USA), and have personally and persistantly used it in a video game (software) context since at least 1997 (game add-ons). For further documentation you can also take THIS example (javascript required, to zoom in on the RCA thing). If you wish to argue about the term in a web browser context, disrupted, then I have no objection, but the term in general is nothing new or exclusive.

As for wikis, I use wikipedia regularly, with caution, but I would never edit or add to it on principle, there is no way I would put forth effort that another could delete on a whim (the nature of wikis).

As for the starving KM wiki I have no great ideas, but I do see once again, even in this discussion, the problem with wikis and multiple users who may not agree on things. I think what I'm seeing here is a conflict between formal and informal viewpoints.

I think siria has made a valid point about not "driving people away with wrong instructions". I happen to be a great example: when first considering the web browser, in relation to wrong documentation I had written previously that "K-Meleon sat unused on my drive for months because of this and caused me a lot of frustration" and "When the instructions failed me I abandoned the browser, months later I searched the forum and found [what I needed]." But so it goes. If some anonymous user had hacked up the wiki and included an informal, parenthetical note that those particular instructions were wrong or outdated or in need of repair then I would certainly have been well served by it.

To siria and disrupted, I hoping the sparks I'm seeing won't cause any permanent damage.
Peace.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2010 12:42PM by Doon.

Hey, I say peace too. It's just a wiki.
I'm a member of two wikis, and I have my own wiki about music.
Thinking about different versions of the program (in this case KM), the best is to keep all the solutions, instead of adding the word "dated" or "out-dated".
Like:
For KM 0.whatever the skins options are in ...
For KM 1.5.whatever the skins options are in ...
I don't know how this wiki works, but most of these keeps backups just in case someone wrote something wrong.

that's right..it's not a new term and was used mainly with hardware but was rarely if ever used for software until mozilla decided to make its own thing.

i got no problem using it, i already complied to siria's demands and added it to extensions but i don't want it to become the official or main description because of mozilla and specifically firefox

i'm not a rigid person and creating a fuss over a word.. in all honesty i'dn't care if it wasn't the formal and very known word for firefox and i have me reasons.
it's not because i hate firefox(i do though ;D) as siria thinks. the problem is..

how can i explain this..
on many and almost all big software website reviews of k-meleon, it's usually described as a firefox clone and similar.. again i don't care what those half-witted software techs think or write without actually testing the browser but this gives the impression to almost everyone, especially firefox users that k-meleon is like flock etc and then they expect they will go to amo and download those add-ons! and simply drag and drop those xpi into kmeleon and they will work.
just go to cnet or zdnet and you will find many comments left by disappointed users 'add-ons don't work!'

that's the main problem here..they expect them to work..they can no longer differentiate between add-ons in general and firefox add-ons..you never see a firefox user complaining or giving a negative review on any other borwser like opera or avant or whatever that the add-ons don't work. that's because they already know and understand that those browsers are not based on firefox and those "add-ons" will not work and those browsers have their own add-ons or extensions or plugins blah blah. they don't see that in k-meleon because they have been misguided by the software sites or because they are very misinformed thinking since its a gecko browser then it's simply out of the question that mozilla add-ons should work and because they don't that makes it a bad browser.. afterall they are supposed to work in their minds.

that's why i hate the word add-ons.. because it has been so much associated with mozilla and because k-meleon has been wrongly associated with firefox this gives users expectations that will not be materialised and even worse , posting about why this 'add-on' does not work..or demanding to make an add-on work like the devs have deliberately disabled something to cripple those add-ons and simply enabling this something will make the add-on work..just like it works in flock, aerofix, iceweasel or any firefox clone.

when we start using the word add-on more and officially then the gates of hell will open and we will see more threads like get this add-on working for me and i don't see add-on x here..why?

i don't really blame siria for not understanding.. but i blame those so-called reviewers on software sites who don't know anything about anything

We are wasting time in this thread. IMHO.

Those that feel their English is good enough could better post updates in wiki - or make their own help pages.

I feel not capable to create an English Wiki page.
And why should I create one? I speak German.

And most all, I do not like to update a wiki.
Last time I tried nothing worked and I got very exited, angry and frustrated.

SF send a mail some while ago, they wanted to discard wikis.
I do not know what came of it.


p.s. Yes siria, IMHO most skins have (or better: can have) installers.

alain created several multi version skin installers.
But there are many more 1. version installers. They are easier to create

Our Project has 2 development archives to create skin installers.

I am sure that about 150 are updated to current 1.5.x skins & can have an installer.
I am sure that about 150 are updated to older 1.1.x skins & can have an installer.

Procedure: Get a fairly fast win2000/XP or newer machine.
Maybe install xxcopy. Grab an archive, extract.

Run the _1MakeAll.cmd in the archive.
Run the _2CleanAll.cmd in the archive.

As a result You will have all install exes that have build without failure in a new directory ./SkinPackages.

That comprises all the skins existing in 2007 (To do some 0.6 and 0.7 which I found later and did not update. Only a handfull of icon sets have not been reused for later skins.).

About 17 skins were newly created from icons after 2007. Most by You, jsnj and Rapido. Current skins have a dev to care for them. They do not need to be in a collective update archive. Their dev did or did not want (to create) installers - so some have none.

kko started to publish the dev archive's 1.1.x content in the end of 2007. Later he was verbally attacked by someone that had once created skins and had forgotten they were GNU ever since. As a consequence kko took the pages & skins down. After that nobody felt like publishing them individually again.

I later uploaded the archive (which is currently updated to version 1.5) for the creators (in case the creators want to update the wiki with the updated skins including installer).

I later rethought it. IMHO it would be a waste of work time to update the skin wiki with individual skin updates. Wiki exists as preview for most existing skins. And the archive exists for anyone that wants to download updated skins or build installers for updated old skins.

And if I really come to think of it. It would be a waste of time also to update other parts of the wiki. End users rather go and ask here. They do not even read the FAQs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2010 05:49AM by guenter.

Sorry to doon and others, and thank you, but... What he claims about me simply is a lie, therefore:

Quote
disrupted
when we start using the word add-on more and officially then the gates of hell will open

This is supposedly his "reason" for replacing that new little chapter (at the bottom of page):

Quote
siria
More Macros / Extensions

Countless more macros as well as some more complex "extensions" (K-Meleon "Add-ons") can be found in the K-Meleon extensions centers, see links in the Resources page. And also in the Forum is now an own section for "K-Meleon extensions" (incl. normal macros). Those are the most up-to-date sources currently (Dec.2009)

first with the following:

Quote
disrupted
(...installation instructions...) DO NOT ADD ANY BACK-LINKS TO THE FOOTER OF THIS PAGE.

and then, after some discussion, with this:

Quote
disrupted
(...installation instructions...) More macros and extensions can be found at Extensions & Add-ons resources.

Note that only the double quotes around the term add-on are vanished, the word itself is still there, as it is on other wiki pages since many years, long before I dared to jump in. Instead all the OTHER lines are still deleted, incl. forum link. Again, with the supposed "reason" given that I were trying to replace the word extensions with addons, which first, and mostly, doesn't have anything to do with the other deleted stuff, and second has nothing to do with reality.

Ah yes, and so that bad yet still existing add-on word is also the "reason" for posting elsewhere:

Quote
disrupted
the problem with some users is; as they are getting acquainted with the product for a couple of months; they think they know all about it and try to change everything to their liking(including the wiki pages) with complete lack of knowledge of the browser's history, specific bugs and limitations. perhaps siria, you should custom build your own version like al. did with kmlite.

(in reference to those wiki updates, along with my insolent suggestion to enable toolbar background by default, which I use since KM 0.8.2 without any problems)

Of course, if the true reason were just for making clear to new users that KM extensions have nothing to do with other-browser-addons, one could have added a line with this explanation in the concerned wiki chapters, instead of deleting other completely unrelated stuff.

@Guenter, sorry there must be a little confusion, because that's not me who's promoting installers for skins in general, because personally I hate exes and much prefer zip or 7z ;-) But I do support it as an alternative (along with zips) for the probably big majority of other users out there.

you don't have the right to change the description of an entry without asking the original author. i consider that rude.
it has been customary when someone wants to make major changes to consult with the rest, instead you went on your own and edited everything to your liking and then came and said "hey don't be surprised if this and that was changed".

it's not funny and it's disrespectful

i added the word "add-on" as you have requested against my better judgement, what more do you want?
no one has ever objected to extensions before and no one has asked for the inclusion of add-ons either..no one has ever raised such a ridiculous issue but you..and it's either your way or you sulk.

and now to address the issue of confusion with firefox addons, you are suggesting that we should add a little explanatory.. wouldn't it be better to avoid that controversial word altogether?
you claim no one understands what extensions mean and hence add-on is essential for the "newbies" and we need to translate to them..
using your same terrible analogy, extensions in english are extensions in french, it never needed further translation and no one ever has had any problems understanding what extensions mean. it doesn't really need add-ons for emphasis or comprehension.. yet you insisted on it and there it is, uselessly added just to make happy.

there is indeed a windows redraw bug(not a k-meleon bug) with toolbar backgrounds.. it's sporadic and doesn;t only happen to k-meleon but even to ie or windows file explorer itself when the toolbars have a background. it's rare but it happens, just because it never happened to you does not mean it will not happen to others..and for that same reason- because it's rare- the option to enable backgrounds has been left but it's better to be set off by default. if that redraw bug was imminent, then the feature for bg would have been removed completely.

the bug tracking report is for bugs, there's a forum for 'improvement requests' . what you are reporting there aren't really bugs however- and that's my opinion- that are not really improvement requests either.

like any other decent software, k-meleon needs some getting used to, learning the basics about it.. the UI does not require a button and an explanation tip for everything. if the user can't handle it; they are better off using something else.. we could easily add a toolbar button to every command ending in a very cluttery interface and that same newbie who may find your improvement requests useful as first will find them annoying when he gets accustomed to the browser.

i think the people at netrik express my same thoughts :
A good UI does not mean many colorful icons to play around and an "intuitive" usage a la Microsoft, which is a pain if you use it longer than ten minutes. (And isn't really intuitive at all...) A good UI is also not only something for weenies incapable of learning the usage of a cryptic "power user" interface.
A good UI is a UI that is both efficient for advanced users, and (really) easy to learn for newbies. Easy to learn doesn't mean: Made for a three-year-olds. Easy to learn means: Usable without hours of reading documentation and solving riddles, or searching for hidden controls.

http://netrik.sourceforge.net//?intro.html

i don't know what you mean by my 'true reason', i was trying to be helpful.. you seem to be dissatisfied with everything.. even the words used in the wiki, hence my suggestion to build your version to your exact preferred settings, it's fairly easy..and who knows, maybe a lot of the 'newbies' you want to make everything easier and comprehendable to them will; prefer your version.

We've not had a real flame war here for quite some time and I recall vividly how bad it got (as I recall I was right in the middle of it and it left a sour taste in my stomach) and would not like to see such a thing happen again.

So I have an idea that I'd like to bounce off of every one.
As we know, the weakness of Wiki is the ability to edit it which work or not, depending. Wikis are dependent upon the user community to repair any errors put in by sheer force of consensus opinion. Not always a good thing, if there are not enough people to insist upon a common understanding.

So here is the idea: how about a preview Wiki, where suggested changes can be placed and then decided upon. Who makes the decision? Perhaps a vote. Suggested changes, in this proposal would have to be posted here in the forum and voted up or down and only then posted in the Wiki. It would allow for anyone to post in a new section called Wiki changes, or some such title and then if agreed upon, posted on the real wiki.

Advantage is it would stop changes that tend to inflame members. Disadvantages: it changes the total freedom of Wikis (Wikipedia has an inner circle that performs similar actions whenever changes are done that are political in nature or polemic, etc.)

What do you think?

N

Some wikis have a discussion board embedded, that way people can talk and discuss changes. Creating a dedicated board here about editing the wiki could be useful, but probably it won't get enough attention.
What about another wiki, apart from this site. Maybe a wiki about skins.
This thread is getting Off-Topic.

Quote
slayer
Some wikis have a discussion board embedded, that way people can talk and discuss changes. Creating a dedicated board here about editing the wiki could be useful, but probably it won't get enough attention.
What about another wiki, apart from this site. Maybe a wiki about skins.
This thread is getting Off-Topic.

Slayer,

Yes, a bit off-topic, but relevant. A Wiki change section might well suffer from a lack of attention or the reverse, as it would be in view all the time.

N

Posting.. OMG!