I've been checking the KM entry page in foreign languages, and have some questions now regarding updating:

1) The KM 1.6a3 alpha is only posted on the english homepage, on those languages that are inheriting it, and now on the spanish page too. Not sure if that may be intentional. Is it okay to add the english alpha to other languages too, and also that v154-line about Gecko version and bugfixes?? (Although personally I'd prefer anyone else doing that for the german download page, which so far has only been touched by devs, but contains the evil word 'add-on' prominently, so I don't feel like being accused of that again)

2) The portuguese page has a messed layout, and only knows of KM-153 so far. Have no idea how to repair the layout, perhaps anyone could at least add KM 1.5.4...?
http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/wiki/KMeleonWiki?switchlang=pt -> http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net

3) The italian intro page is missing the 1.5.4 in "News", on top of KM homepage. Any italien translators here?
http://kmeleon.sf.net/wiki/KMeleonWiki?switchlang=it -> http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net

4) The chinese intro page is also missing the 1.5.4 in "News", on top of KM homepage. But the chinese "news" page is only chinese until 2005, later only the english updates have been copied into it. Should one add 154-news too in english, or rather delete the whole news page, so that all appears in english complete automatically? (Personally I'd rather not touch that one too, fearing that after editing on my no-chinese computer those characters may vanish, who knows...)
http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/wiki/KMeleonWiki?switchlang=cn -> http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net

PS:
Be careful after switching languages, the forum buttons may turn into "???" or vanish completely :cool: And you're lucky if you then still find an english flag on the left side, which can reset it to english. Sometimes there also seems to be a flag for the own language.

By the way you can also change languages (for the wiki and perhaps the forum too), by clicking a flag on this page: --> http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/wiki/Translations



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2010 08:11AM by siria.

I think it's a miss from kko probably, and it's not to much difficult to make it, even sometimes, as wiki pages are melted to generate Home page, it' can be a bit difficutl to find the pages to modify.

Generally, and it's true for official builds, kko adds the modifixations on the concerned pages, but in english.

An old modification I asked for is the way to be informed that something has been modified in english pages. So we can add and/or translate quickly after modifications on the referenced pages (I consider that english pages are the reference).

I'm always asking this feature :
- a list of the translators where everybody can be in the list, after registration
- A mail to the translators to inform the modifications.

A second way to inform is perhaps to create another list (like devlist).

A+

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Mozilla/5.0 (x11; U; Linux x86_64; fr-FR; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Ubuntu/12.04 K-Meleon/76.0

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Web: http://jujuland.pagesperso-orange.fr/
Mail : alain [dot] aupeix [at] wanadoo [dot] fr

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Ubuntu 12.04 - Gramps 3.4.9 - Harbour 3.2.0 - Hwgui 2.20-3 - K-Meleon 76.0 rc

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I updated spanish wiki page at Friday in the evening.
I think this must have similar information than the english users.
If the software support this language and there is support in the forums by this lenguage (spanish spoken like me, JohnHell, enaitzjga, and others) there isn't problem to have the same home web page translated.

Translated the Home web page is not difficult, this is a composed by two other wiki pages; News and Download. If you updated the translation of these wiki pages in each language, Home page is updated automatically.

K-Meleon in Spanish



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2010 03:44PM by desga2.

in fact, i'm really happy if i can give a hand for the translation of the Chinese pages.

But i don't know how to or if the part of Chinese translation is needed.

Quote
chinarobin
in fact, i'm really happy if i can give a hand for the translation of the Chinese pages.

But i don't know how to or if the part of Chinese translation is needed.

Any translation is welcome.

To make one, just go at the bottom of (almost) any page and you'll see the text Edit Page. Click on it and, if you have an account, you'll need to log in (it's the same of the forum if I'm not wrong) if not, you'll have to create one.

The edit procedure it's the same as at Wikipedia.org (same software). Indeed, you can go to their help pages if you need to check for something.

OH, I FORGOT THE MOST IMPORTANT
You don't have to edit those pages, you'll need to open the page you want to edit as your language.

Example, if you want to edit the News pages, you'll edit NewsCn:

http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/wiki/News <--- DO NOT EDIT

http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/wiki/NewsCn <--- EDIT THIS ONE

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2010 08:15PM by JohnHell.

JohnHell
i tried the news, and it is ok.
but when i came to this page http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/contrib.php, and i clicked the editthispage below, the edit box is totally blank, no letters or string in it, anywhere wrong?

Uhm, you want to edit the contribution-page...?? *confused*

I have had this problem sometimes. Here is a simple way to bypass it

1) go to the page you want to translate, but with switchlang = en
2) click edit (but modify nothing)
3) Ctrl-A and Ctrl-C to copy
4) Previous page
5) choose your language (by switchlang, if not present on left part)
6) click edit (textarea must be empty)
7) paste (Ctrl-V)
8) translate
9) save

Servir chaud

A+

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Mozilla/5.0 (x11; U; Linux x86_64; fr-FR; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Ubuntu/12.04 K-Meleon/76.0

---

Web: http://jujuland.pagesperso-orange.fr/
Mail : alain [dot] aupeix [at] wanadoo [dot] fr

---

Ubuntu 12.04 - Gramps 3.4.9 - Harbour 3.2.0 - Hwgui 2.20-3 - K-Meleon 76.0 rc

---

i think i figure it out now. thanks you!

and i find some original Chinese words are random codes for me, english is ok.

Is it the reason thant we use different codes(unicode and ansi) under different

systems?

i dont know if it will be displayed ok on your screens.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2010 08:13AM by chinarobin.

Quote
chinarobin
JohnHell
i tried the news, and it is ok.
but when i came to this page http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/contrib.php, and i clicked the editthispage below, the edit box is totally blank, no letters or string in it, anywhere wrong?

Yep, I forgot it too, JuJuland already told you how to do.

It's the same it happens at Wikipedia.org, if there is not such page, it appears as blank and available for editing from scratch.

Quote
chinarobin
i think i figure it out now. thanks you!

and i find some original Chinese words are random codes for me, english is ok.

Is it the reason thant we use different codes(unicode and ansi) under different

systems?

i dont know if it will be displayed ok on your screens.

:-?

Wrote by you? Because all non-latin characters are wrote in html as UTF-8 codes, so there shouldn't be problems. For you or for us with the adequate UTF-8 TTF font.

This is how I see the News page, is it ok?:

Quote
JohnHell

Quote
chinarobin
JohnHell
i tried the news, and it is ok.
but when i came to this page http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/contrib.php, and i clicked the editthispage below, the edit box is totally blank, no letters or string in it, anywhere wrong?

Yep, I forgot it too, JuJuland already told you how to do.

It's the same it happens at Wikipedia.org, if there is not such page, it appears as blank and available for editing from scratch.

Quote
chinarobin
i think i figure it out now. thanks you!

and i find some original Chinese words are random codes for me, english is ok.

Is it the reason thant we use different codes(unicode and ansi) under different

systems?

i dont know if it will be displayed ok on your screens.

:-?

Wrote by you? Because all non-latin characters are wrote in html as UTF-8 codes, so there shouldn't be problems. For you or for us with the adequate UTF-8 TTF font.

This is how I see the News page, is it ok?:

yes， i see.

Did you ever notice that most wiki and FAQ info about skinning only say that skins can be changed, but hardly ever mention they can also be modified?? And that they don't mention that skins don't simply change the icon look, but are also responsible for the available commands? At least I haven't found that mentioned yet, probably if one digs really deeper, but how many people do...

From other programs I'm used to think that "skins" only change the colors and icons, not the commands themselves, and don't add/delete buttons. To change visibility of buttons, one usually right-clicks a free space on a toolbar and then can choose his buttons. But in K-Meleon this does nothing.
One has to get the idea oneself to click on Edit > Configuration > Toolbars.

For example the FAQ only tell this:

Does K-Meleon support skins/themes?
Yes. K-Meleon is very easy to skin. You can find quite a number of skins in the K-Meleon Themes Wiki. In order to install one, simply extract the provided ZIP archive into K-Meleon's skins directory (the files of the new skin must all end up in a new subdirectory of the skins directory). After a restart of K-Meleon, you can select the new skin in the Preferences dialog. You have to restart K-Meleon to changes made to the skin take effect.

Suggestion to add some hints, like this or similar:

How do I show more or less buttons?

To set the visibility of single toolbars (like Privacy Bar etc.), click View > Toolbars. This setting will be used in all skins.

To set the visibility of single buttons in a toolbar (like 'Block Javascript' etc.), click Edit > Configuration > Toolbars. This setting will only be stored for the current skin.
That is because K-Meleon skins also contain the button definitions, incl. the commands or menus they execute, different on left- and right-click. Of course you can modify everything.
Tip: If the skin you want to modify is one of the default skins (Klassik, Phoenity, AuraAlpha) it is recommended to rename or copy that skin folder, to avoid accidental overwriting of your changes when updating K-Meleon to a new version.


EDIT:
Of course, hardly posted, there I find more ;-P

The Resources page also tells this:

Customize the menus, accelerator keys and available toolbar buttons
This information is kept in the ConfigFiles. You can edit these files through the PreferencesDialog. Beginners should use caution when editing these files and it is helpful to create a test profile for extensive customization.

Had overlooked it, because it is separated from "Change the graphical icons in K-Meleon" with another chapter about "Translate K-Meleon". Perhaps the button stuff could be moved closer to the skin stuff...?

Anyway, I still support the addition above to the FAQ at least...

And perhaps add a sort of "Related.." link to the other skin pages, that only talk about installation of new skins...?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2010 07:39PM by siria.

Am in the train of sorting the macro library a bit, and found that by far most of the web services are sorted with "newest on top". So I sticked to that. Now I notice that the "General" macros are mostly sorted "oldest on top". Oh well. Do you get furious if I sort them all "newest on top"? It somehow makes more sense... People start reading and picking their first macro tests from the top, but a few of the oldest macros contain stuff like layers that can give problems in current KM versions. Apart from layers I don't know which exactly, but guess it would make sense if someone more experienced could mark them with the matching KM version, or perhaps put them in an own chapter?

By the way:
Just this morning one of the many spam (malware?) posters that are currently flooding the browser website has redirected the link to KM "Translations" to his own website:
http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/wiki/diff;Welcome?version=27
That is on the wiki page where people land when they click "Help > K-Meleon Wiki" in the browser menu.
Other favorite targets of them the last days were "Resources" (link on the left side here) and "Features", etc.

To tell the truth, I'm often quite panicky, seeing that about 3.000 people are downloading every single day from the KM website, are you really sure you want hundreds of destroyed computers of innocent users, who were so "stupid" to believe that this trustworthy looking browser website were only edited by the developers??
The problem is that nothing indicates to them the website is just as unsafe as any forum post by some stranger, except that forum posts are safer, there one sees at least who posted something, and isn't lead to believe it was the owner.
I cannot imagine that one of the 5-6 'honest' wiki editors would mind if there were a *validation* of updates first. All the few people I've seen contributing in the last months were well known members here with hundreds of forum posts, half of them even mods/developers, only that chinese one I don't know, but perhaps you. And 10x as much spammers. No casual bydroppers, so that extreme openness doesn't really increase the number of updates anyway...
It's only a matter of time until someone thinks that were a perfect website to spread his malware too!

Seeing that in average there were no more than 1-2 meaningful updates in a month, or rather less, is that really worth destroying almost surely the existence of lots of people, who need their computers for their business, and who may well pass the infection to all their customers too, if the KM download delivers a trojan or something? 3.000 downloads every day compared to 1-2 honest contributions per month! And if we don't notice it in a day, the downloads quickly grow to 6 thousand, 9 thousand, ....
It's like inviting people into your hotel on a californian beach and not telling them there are hordes of free running wolves in the area, while all doors and windows are kept wide open day and night. If that hotel were in the canadian rockies the visitors would at least be warned of wolves and grizzlies, to be extra careful and shut the doors etc. Now what will they say if the first ones are attacked and some possibly killed, and they didnt even get any hint of the extreme danger? IMHO there's a difference between a normal web risk and near-suicide :cool:



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 06/06/2010 08:11PM by siria.

Quote
siria
Am in the train of sorting the macro library a bit, and found that by far most of the web services are sorted with "newest on top". So I sticked to that. Now I notice that the "General" macros are mostly sorted "oldest on top". Oh well. Do you get furious if I sort them all "newest on top"? It somehow makes more sense...

No objections to newest on top here. Doubt there will be from others.

+1!

And thanks for your hard work.

--- sig ---

Thank you guys, that really helps!

So I've just posted now the new version, hope you're okay with it:
http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/wiki/MacroLibrary
Newest on top, and Web Services are now divided into 4 groups, trying to get a better overview. Only the video chapter is mixed with 2 'local' video macros, but otherwise the long "General" section remains one big heap. It's all so very much varied there and not sure how to find a reasonable grouping... It's mostly just 2-3 (very) similar macros... Perhaps make mini-groups without group title and just an empty line in between... but then the dates get all mixed up again... Just no idea! Guess I'll just leave it alone for now ;-)

Oh well, as always with re-sorting, the differences-list looks mightily confused, but all lines should still be there, just sorted differently!!

One more minor thing, have noticed that the macro versions almost never get updated in that list site, e.g. James Favorites macro still from 2007. Perhaps using the update date for sorting wouldn't be bad, but again, not sure... ;-)

@ siria

Thanks for your work on sorting. About the date - are we supposed to change it when an update is posted? I never have, but I have not asked about that either.

One thing to consider is that a change for an update would require editing two pages. So far I have only changed the page with the macro.

No idea James, there are no rules about it written on the page, so it looks like everyone is supposed to do as he likes best
Personally I think that some macros are more important to be updated than others, e.g. if the original one was rather old already, ore if there were important changes like more functions or such. I just imagine that once a user has gotten his first macros from the page, he'll later only look at the list for new stuff, and not check out the older macros again that he already has tried. And most people are probably not aware about the macros in the forum, many probably not even about the two archives.

Someone named "newman" did some 15 changes in a row on the wiki WELCOME page (where you get when clicking menu Help>Wiki). Looks like he tried to introduce some sub-categories, but got stuck in the middle, looks a bit messy now...

No idea if we should leave it that way at this point (looking semi-finished), please someone take a look?

How it looked before:
http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/wiki/view;Welcome?version=28 (version 28)

Now:
http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/wiki/view;Welcome?version=43 (version 43)
http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/wiki/Welcome (no version)

A side-by-side view with frames, seems to work if you highlight and click the GO-button:

data:text/html,<title>Welcome Version-28 |<->| Welcome Version-43</title><frameset cols='*,*'><frame src='http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/wiki/view;Welcome?version=28'><frame src='http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/wiki/view;Welcome?version=43'></frameset>;



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2010 05:51PM by siria.

Quote
siria
No idea if we should leave it that way at this point (looking semi-finished), please someone take a look?

Siria, I think the best way would be newman should announce what he intends. If he wants to continue what he started and the majority agrees with it, that's fine with me. Otherwise going back to v28 seems to be the only logical option.

Hi Matt, he did yet another change, added the first two sentences, please take another look...
http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/wiki/view;Welcome?version=44

The majority BTW simply doesnt care about the wiki, you have another impression...? ;-)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2010 08:25PM by siria.

And version 47... oops 48...49... oops... 51

Newman, PLEASE, if you're reading here, stop FLOODING the page history!!
There is a *PREVIEW* button to check changes before saving, no need to save and publish a new version after every new word! 30 changes in a single evening!

There is a sandbox somewhere in the wiki that is meant for trying out things like this, and when you think you're finished you can still publish it! Although for such major changes in one of the main pages it wouldn't hurt if you show it here first...

I pulled the 'emergeny brake' by undoing it all, but that is NOT to say that I wouldn't be happy that finally someone does some updates, and your changes certainly aren't lost, you can start from there again and copy your last version into the sandbox for finishing it first before publishing...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2010 12:07AM by siria.

If I might make one small suggestion to Newman it would be to create a second page on which to make all your changes. I did a major update to the Macrolanguage page, but I did it on a page named Macrolanguage2. The only update to the original page was one line which contains a link to the second page.

That method allows me to complete all my changes with out any major change to the original page.

lol, I knew something happened to the page when I clicked the refresh button 5min. ago.

My apologies, yes I think I got a little over excited. I was trying to give the page a little structure, thats all. As long as the layout is saved somewhere its good. I will only continue with the editing if everyone is on the same page, since its not just for me but its for everyone that reads it so we all should agree to anychanges especially the coders as they prob. have a better idea of what should be grouped together than the way I grouped the. Even though the wiki is back to where it was but see we still are making progress if a few give some feedback. cheers

PS: ahhh JamesD, good thinking but you see I this whole wiki business is rather new to me I have no idea how to create a new page and link to it. That was my next step as I intended to create a page(s) about the "Folder Structure" and "Uninstall" sections.

Is there a way to see the changes being made, or a history of each page and compare it with the previous version? I'm not familiar with this wiki system, I'm a member of two wikis and an organizer of another one, but this system looks very different.
Where is the K-Meleon wiki hosted, in sourceforge perhaps?

Ouf... Yes a little overexcited, I was really starting to go "Waaah - HELP!!", and you would easily have reached 50 or more changes in 1 single page ;-)

To see the history of a page just scroll down and click on "Page Info". For each version there are links for "browse" (see this version), for show the "diff"erences. and for "fetchback" (=edit old version, or just copy the code etc.)

I'm not a mod or anything, only a little end user too, but IMHO creating each page with a new name just for testing major changes wouldn't be that good, because that name will never be forgotten in the wiki history either... "macrolanguage2" is another thing, that really makes sense because the macrolanguage still exists differently for old and new KM versions...

For such stuff there are those 2 pages meant:
http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/wiki/KmeleonWikiSuggestions (suggestions)
http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/wiki/SandBox (sandbox)

Quote
sira
I'm not a mod or anything, only a little end user too, but IMHO creating each page with a new name just for testing major changes wouldn't be that good, because that name will never be forgotten in the wiki history either...

I did not know that we could not just replace Macrolanguage with Macrolanguage2 at some point and get rid of the second page. I suspect there is a great deal about wikis that I do not know.

see.... we are making progress. Yes, I would have def. reached 50+ changes siria. lol You can delete all the different versions just keep the original and the last one I did. I will continue to work on the page but I need input and some help too. Someone did mention to either keep it either a horizontal design or a vertical on, I was thinking about it and I do agree. I was hoping for a more fluid layout but I don't think this wiki stuff can do it, we will just work with what we have.

The whole reason for me wanting to do up the wiki was because the forums contain a lot of great info. and repeated in different places so if we could just put some of it in one place then more new comers could make the transition seamless.

Oh, thanks for the temp wiki's siria

Quote
newman
You can delete all the different versions just keep the original and the last one I did.

Fine, just tell me where the delete links are please??
Because I see only "browse" and "edit" etc. :cool: ;-)

Quote
newman
The whole reason for me wanting to do up the wiki was because the forums contain a lot of great info. and repeated in different places so if we could just put some of it in one place then more new comers could make the transition seamless.

Oh yes, quite some new users had that great idea too but it's not easy at all, and there's always the risk that it all only gets deleted again :-/

Quote
newman
I will continue to work on the page but I need input and some help too. Someone did mention to either keep it either a horizontal design or a vertical on, I was thinking about it and I do agree.

If someone would be willing to help this was the last newman-version:
http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/wiki/view;Welcome?version=51
And suggestions page: http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/wiki/KmeleonWikiSuggestions

Guess whether horizontal or vertical etc. is a secondary point, first the content of the categories should be clear... And easier would be to first put together a normal text or html listing, perhaps in a normal forum post here, to discuss and get the okay of the mods (or not), before struggling with complicated wiki layout stuff...

Oh well, you're new to KM and still have the drive of the enthousiastic start, that we should really be glad about, but to be honest, personally I don't quite have the time and energy for this at the moment to help myself, sorry... And I think this is really complicated to categorize, due to so much stuff and the big problem being, most of the links fit at the same time in several categories!! So to get it well, it takes a lot of hard work and decisions, ouff, good luck ;-)

And unfortunately I must warn you, when I had myself worked quite hard to do the first few harmless wiki updates some months ago (like you some sort of "categorizing together" but on a much smaller level), I had done the mistake to put a pair of quotation marks around a word and a mod who didnt like it went all furious and undid simply all my work, and that was it then. So that's the risk with wikis, and from what someone else posted, a basic problem of all wikis not just here... Not very motivating, and in the little exchanges about KM wiki stuff in the forum here since, it became quickly clear that only really unavoidable updates are seen as okay by mods and longstanding KM experts, but otherwise they want that one should touch the wiki as little as possible, and they say they hardly even dare to touch the wiki themselves...
And then there's also the big majority of users, who simply care zero about the wiki, so as a result of all it's really quite outdated on many pages :-(