I have the current version of Flash player, 16.0.0.235, installed on my Windows 7 64 bit system. When I run youtube or other flash based content, including games, in Firefox my CPU and memory use go crazy. I can see this using the Process Explorer utility from SysInternals.

However, when I use K-Meleon 74 to do the same thing, the effect on my CPU and memory is significantly less. Why is this so as I thought K-Meleon, like Firefox, was based on Gecko? Also, when I check Task Manager and Process Explorer, there is no Flash Plug-in running, yet all flash content works fine for me. And the only difference if I have Flash blocked from the Tools menu is that I get the placeholder icon. When I click on that the flash based content runs fine, but still with no Flash plug-in showing in Task Manager or Process Explorer.

On and off Flash has been the bane of my Internet use for many years. Can someone please explain how K-Meleon handles Flash. My plug-ins show no Flash plug-in present so is K-Meleon handling Flash content natively?

Peter Wills



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2015 11:15AM by pjpw2320.

Yes. K-Meleon is Gecko based. See URL about:. It has the same HTML & JS rendering capabilties as the FF with the same Gecko and engine number.

No idea what version Your K-Meleon is. Until 1.6 or 1.7 they needed a flash plugin.
The K-Meleon74 install can use AFAIK use HTML 5 features that have movie support of sorts for pages that support it.

What plugins are known? Go about:plugins to see what K-Meleon knows about the Mozilla (non IE plugins) plugins installed in Your system. Or go to about:addons and look what extensions and plugins are known, activated and to manage them.

On my system XP SP3 K-Meleon 74 uses definitely flash to render Youtube videos.
Right click on the video played tells me what Adobe version and options.

It does not show a flash plugin in the Process Explorer utility from SysInternals.
But a Plugin container.exe. It hosts AFAIK the plugin.

p.s. I use K-Meleon since 2001/02 because it normally uses less resources.
SunJava & Flash rendering. That is longer than the Firefox project exists.
So I can not comment on Your Flash experiences with Firefox.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2015 12:46PM by guenter.

Quote
guenter
Yes. K-Meleon is Gecko based. See URL about:. It has the same HTML & JS rendering capabilties as the FF with the same Gecko and engine number.

No idea what version Your K-Meleon is. Until 1.6 or 1.7 they needed a flash plugin.
The K-Meleon74 install can use AFAIK use HTML 5 features that have movie support of sorts for pages that support it.

What plugins are known? Go about:plugins to see what K-Meleon knows about the Mozilla (non IE plugins) plugins installed in Your system. Or go to about:addons and look what extensions and plugins are known, activated and to manage them.

On my system XP SP3 K-Meleon 74 uses definitely flash to render Youtube videos.
Right click on the video played tells me what Adobe version and options.

It does not show a flash plugin in the Process Explorer utility from SysInternals.
But a Plugin container.exe. It hosts AFAIK the plugin.

p.s. I use K-Meleon since 2001/02 because it normally uses less resources.
SunJava & Flash rendering. That is longer than the Firefox project exists.
So I can not comment on Your Flash experiences with Firefox.

Thanks for the tips Guenter. I am using the Flash Plugin as I right clicked on a youtube video when it was playing. But I have no Flash player process showing in Process Explorer and I have no plugin container file running either.

My experience with Firefox and Flash over the years has been less than good. I usually ran add-ons to disable Flash and only had it enabled when I absolutely needed to.

I just don't get it that with the obvious close links K-Meleon has with FF, why Flash in FF still uses so much CPU and RAM. Maybe FF's heavy use of XUL has something to do with it but I doubt that is all of it.

Peter Wills



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2015 02:53PM by pjpw2320.

Check with Firefox the preference dom.ipc.plugins.enabled in about:config and set it to false (so no plugin container/process is created).

Look if that makes any change in Firefox.

Just curious of the results (I can't test myself, sorry).

Might be that your system can't handle a separate process for the plugins and you would need to run the plugins inside the browser itself.

The plugin container was thought as a sandbox for plugins.

IMHO You use the default with plugincontainer.exe off.

Look for a svchost.exe with a high resource use in ProcessExplorer, then right click for its properties. Then inspect what dll that uses.

Else K-Meleon hosts flash.


Some resource savings of K-Meleon were from reusing dll loaded from the system anyway. I do not know whether that is still all true.

Quote
JohnHell
Check with Firefox the preference dom.ipc.plugins.enabled in about:config and set it to false (so no plugin container/process is created).

Look if that makes any change in Firefox.

Just curious of the results (I can't test myself, sorry).

Might be that your system can't handle a separate process for the plugins and you would need to run the plugins inside the browser itself.

The plugin container was thought as a sandbox for plugins.

"Check with Firefox the preference dom.ipc.plugins.enabled in about:config and set it to false (so no plugin container/process is created)."

Is that preference just for Flash or for all plugins?

Peter Wills

I do not know - but assume for all.

dom.ipc.plugins.enabled.npswf32.dll is for flash.

The only other external (not by Mozilla) plugin mentioned in my about:config is dom.ipc.plugins.java.enabled . But my entry might be from me reusing an ancient profile.

Go about:config type ipc to see more for Your own install.


Here is something more from the net. If the guy is right You have to specifically mention the ones You want to switch off when dom.ipc.plugins.enabled is true.

http://www.tomsguide.com/faq/id-2141981/fix-disabling-plugin-container-exe-firefox-newer.html


If You read German? http://www.egpelo.com/langsames-firefox-beschleunigen.htm

He outright slams the plugin container as a useless sabotage program that only drive You CPU use up and recommends to disable it. dom.ipc.plugins.enabled = false.

p.s. I tend to agree. K-Meleon is often crashed by the plugin container with some flash player versions.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2015 07:03PM by guenter.

That will change the preference for ALL plugins, but it is just for testing purposes.

If you search for dom.ipc.plugins preferences, you will see individual preference for the other plugins.

You have the dom.ipc.plugins.enabled.npswf32.dll preference, but in the end all is controlled but the told preference.

(Damn what guenter said, I was slow and I'm now with just only the keyboard (my monitor is failing like shit))



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2015 06:57PM by JohnHell.

Interesting what you are both saying about the plugin container which I don't see in my K-Meleon 74. And only yesterday I was testing a Flash add-on in Firefox called "Video Without Flash 2.0.2" which uses a plugin container in lieu of running Flash in Firefox. When I was testing this add-on the CPU and memory use in Firefox was dramatically reduced when playing YouTube Flash videos. As soon as I went back to using Flash (V 16.0.0.235) in FF my CPU and memory use shot up dramatically again.

However, I am mainly interested in how the implmentation of Flash with K-Meleon 74 works as it does not show a Flash plugin or a plugin container file in running processes when playing Flash and the impact on my CPU and memory is nowhere near as dramatic as it is with FF.

I have yet to experiment with the settings you mentioned in my About:config file when running FF but will do so and report back my findings.

Peter Wills



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2015 07:36PM by pjpw2320.

about:config url, not file.

The file, if we could call it "the file" is prefs.js (and user.js) but there you have to manually insert preferences and in the config page (about:config url) are shown preferences that are set by default and default ones aren't written to any prefs.js file (this is in your profile but I don't recommend edit withou knowledge, and even with it).

Ok, thanks John.

Peter Wills

@pjpw2320

You don't see the flash plugin in the task manager because the clips you are watching are not Flash. They are HTML5 video clips.
Search for a Flash-clip and you'll see the plugin in the task manager.

As for CPU usage, be it Flash or HTML5, I don't see any difference on K-Meleon, Firefox or Opera (Presto). However I'm on a quite powerful machine.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2015 09:19PM by Yogi.

Thanks for your input Yogi. My laptop is fairly basic, Windows 7 64 bit Home Edition 4GB RAM. I have used K-Meleon for many years and it has always always used way less CPU and RAM than the various versions of FF. Chrome, for me at least, is far worse again than FF currently. FF has improved much in recent versions but still goes berserk when running Flash.

I'm not sure I agree with your point about HTML 5 though. I will check it out and post back here. And even when I run HTML5 videos in FF it still uses more CPU and RAM than does K-Meleon.

Peter Wills

@Yogi

I just played a flash based online game and I see no Flash plugin or a plugin container process running in Task Manager/Process Explorer. I know it is a flash based game as it will not run in FF if I have Flash in FF disabled.

Peter Wills

@pjpw2320

The first imgage shows the CPU usage during a YouTube Flash clip play back with Firefox.
The second image shows the active Flash plugin during a paused YouTube Flash clip play back with K-Meleon 74.

What are your computer's specs Yogi?

Peter Wills

Yogi, it would appear from your screen shots that you experience no CPU or memory issues running Flash in Firefox. Is that correct?

Could you provide a screen shot of the running Flash process please?
Do you have the Flash plug-in set to Always Activate?
Do you have any Firefox Flash add-ons installed?
Are you using a Page File?

Peter Wills

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pjpw2320
What are your computer's specs Yogi?

Nothing special. Win7 x64bit with an i5 processor. You can see the available RAM on the first screenshot. The OS is fine tuned to my like.

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pjpw2320
Yogi, it would appear from your screen shots that you experience no CPU or memory issues running Flash in Firefox.

If you look at the graph of the CPU usage in the first screenshot, you can see that most of the time it's less than 1%. When I start a flash clip, CPU usage can peak up to 30% but comes down afterwards shortly to less than 1%.
I don't experience CPU or memory issues running Flash on Firefox or on my other browsers. You can also see on the first screenshot the free RAM available during play back.

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pjpw2320
Could you provide a screen shot of the running Flash process please?

There is no separate process of Flash I can show in K-Meleon like the one in newer Firefox versions. K-Meleon doesn't run Flash in a container.
The active Flash plugin/DLL (which is the equivalent to the Flash process in Firefox - I should have mentioned it in my first post to avoid confusion) that K-Meleon is using, is shown in my second screenshot. Look at the red arrows.

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pjpw2320
Do you have the Flash plug-in set to Always Activate?

Yes, for Firefox. K-Meleon doesn't have this option but has Flashblock built in.

Quote
pjpw2320
Do you have any Firefox Flash add-ons installed?

Nope.

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pjpw2320
Are you using a Page File?

Nope.

Quote
Yogi

Quote
pjpw2320
What are your computer's specs Yogi?

Nothing special. Win7 x64bit with an i5 processor. You can see the available RAM on the first screenshot. The OS is fine tuned to my like.

8GB RAM, right? I don't speak German so I wasn't sure

And I always thought that 16GB RAM was needed to suucessfully run with no page file.

Thanks for your insights Yogi. When you say the OS is fined tuned to your like, are there any other tips you could share on that?

Peter Wills

Quote
pjpw2320
8GB RAM, right? I don't speak German so I wasn't sure

Yes.
Physikalischer Speicher = physical memory
insgesamt = total
verfügbar = available
frei = free
ausgelagert = swapped
nicht ausgelagert = not swapped

Quote
pjpw2320
And I always thought that 16GB RAM was needed to suucessfully run with no page file.?

To avoid any misunderstanding - with "no" I meant that I left the default settings for the page file. So the system can make use of it if necessary.

Quote
pjpw2320
When you say the OS is fined tuned to your like, are there any other tips you could share on that?

My system settings are no secret but it makes little sense to share them. They are made for my special needs, my environment and the way I'm using my computer. Some of my custom settings might affect negatively other needs/demands, other environments or the way someone else uses his computer.
The same would apply for customized browser settings.

@Yogi

Thanks for the quick lesson in German.

As far as your system tuning is concerned I was just curious to know what your settings were and the rationale for them. I fully undertsnad that all systems and users' requirements are different and what works for one user may not be suitable for another user.

But thanks for your input. I do appreciate it.

Peter Wills

Well, to give you an idea of some changes I did to my system.

I've disabled some services I don't use/need. For some services I've changed the start type from "automatic" to "manual".
I've unchecked some Network items I don't use/need. For instance: NETBIOS over TCP/IP, DCOM, ...
I've uninstalled an essential Windows component called .Net Framework. I wan't be able to use software wich needs this Framework at least as long as I won't reinstall this component again - I don't think it will happen aytime soon.

These are some examples of the changes I've made.

Interesting. Thanks Yogi.

Have you referenced the Black Viper website at all in researching Windows changes before you made them or just made them from your own knowledge?

Peter Wills

Yes I did.
Black Viper website, Windows knowledge base as some other sources.

Thanks again Yogi for your interest and your information

Peter Wills

Quote
pjpw2320
What are your computer's specs Yogi?

and what are YOUR computer specs, Peter? it would be nice if you list your specs of your CPU and RAM here too [use CPU-Z tool or the built-in Dxdiag or MSInfo32 tool from Windows 7 to gather those kinds of info]. even mention the brand of your PC if possible as well.
I'm using a Dell Inspiron 620 desktop PC (Windows 7 SP1 x64 Home Premium edition) with and Intel i5 2310 2.9 GHz CPU and 6Gb of RAM and Flash 16 hasn't used much of the CPU/RAM resources on my machine - also have K-meleon 74 and Cyberfox 35 installed on there. On my other and less powerful bedroom computer [a custom built one that uses an old Intel Pentium 4 661 (3.2Ghz) hyperthreaded CPU with 2Gb of RAM, Windows 7 SP1 Professional 32bit edition] I have Flash 13 ESR installed on there.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2015 12:08PM by 4td8s.

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4td8s

Quote
pjpw2320
What are your computer's specs Yogi?

and what are YOUR computer specs, Peter? it would be nice if you list your specs of your CPU and RAM here too [use CPU-Z tool or the built-in Dxdiag or MSInfo32 tool from Windows 7 to gather those kinds of info]. even mention the brand of your PC if possible as well.
I'm using a Dell Inspiron 620 desktop PC (Windows 7 SP1 x64 Home Premium edition) with and Intel i5 2310 2.9 GHz CPU and 6Gb of RAM and Flash 16 hasn't used much of the CPU/RAM resources on my machine - also have K-meleon 74 and Cyberfox 35 installed on there. On my other and less powerful bedroom computer [a custom built one that uses an old Intel Pentium 4 661 (3.2Ghz) hyperthreaded CPU with 2Gb of RAM, Windows 7 SP1 Professional 32bit edition] I have Flash 13 ESR installed on there.

@4td8s
My system is fairly basic. A 3 year old 1.5Ghz Quad Core HP Pavilion g7 laptop with 4GB RAM running Windows & Home Premium Edition SP1 with an AMD A6-3420M APU Radeon(tm) HD Graphics card.

Flash is up to date (16.0.0.257). I also have the 32 bit Cyberfox V34.1 installed. My main browser is K-Meleon with Firefox a second choice. I used to use various Chromium based browsers a lot .... Google Chrome, Slimjet, Whitehat Aviator, Comodo Chromium Secure, Epic Privacy Browser and Opera. I also have Google Chrome Canary installed but only use it occasionally for testing. But these Chromium based browsers consumed far too much CPU and memory on my system.

Flash has ALWAYS been an issue to varying degrees on any system I have used and a search on Google or any good search engine shows that I am hardly alone. I wish I could relate the same experience as you and Yogi on that regard but I cannot. The impact of Flash on my system is, however, much less with K-Meleon than any other browser.

Peter Wills

@4td8s
I should also mention that I occasionally use IE V11, but usually only for testing Flash or a website. I have found though that, for me, Flash runs better in IE than FF or any of the Chromium based browsers.

Peter Wills

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pjpw2320

@4td8s
My system is fairly basic. A 3 year old 1.5Ghz Quad Core HP Pavilion g7 laptop with 4GB RAM running Windows & Home Premium Edition SP1 with an AMD A6-3420M APU Radeon(tm) HD Graphics card.

ah, I think you mean Windows 7 Home Premium Edition SP1 - is it 32bit or 64bit? Open the Control Panel and click on the System icon to view its system properties to check the System type.

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4td8s

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pjpw2320

@4td8s
My system is fairly basic. A 3 year old 1.5Ghz Quad Core HP Pavilion g7 laptop with 4GB RAM running Windows & Home Premium Edition SP1 with an AMD A6-3420M APU Radeon(tm) HD Graphics card.

ah, I think you mean Windows 7 Home Premium Edition SP1 - is it 32bit or 64bit? Open the Control Panel and click on the System icon to view its system properties to check the System type.

Sorry, it is 64 bit.And yes, sorry for the typo also. It is Windows 7.

Peter Wills