The unhappy visitor to this different place just doesn't GET it...and will not.

If most or even many of the users of K-Meleon spent life energies worrying about 'security' - they would simply...
Not be here anymore.

Bickering endlessly over a suggestion that is falling upon deaf ears will not make it suddenly get lots of 'likes' (this ain't facebook, sorry).

As I sit here at my desk I have more multicore CPUs within my arm's reach than most; of the lot only 1 tiny netbook that I picked up cheaply has 7 on it - and that one is dusty just because I haven't decided which better OS I'll upgrade it to.
Maybe a Linux distro - maybe Android - maybe even XP - but nothing after XP as they are painful - plain & simple - they hurt my old eyes.

Even more personally regarding myself & my adventures...yes, I'm an old guy.

My tech business was in full swing for 20+ good years - 'till life threatening illness slowed me down too much to continue - and most of my long time clients wandered off as they needed regular attentions & I was a lone operator by then.

The most successful retail outfit in the area - whom I served for most of that time stayed with me; UNTIL 2 of the 3 family members in charge demanded to have shinier, fancier tech than the perfectly good existing stuff that was in use 7 days a week & had never suffered a breach or any data loss (EXCEPT when a bad staff member tried to fake one - and got fired ASAP...).

So they kind of faded out of sight as they hired the local fancy, shiny guy who charged multiples of my rates...and guess what ??

They ended up spending ooodles of $$$ on low-end stuff strung together with tangled masses of cables, and...and...XP.

How do I know ??
Because the 3rd guy who was outvoted remained a good friend and had to laugh at the 'progress' his family had made by tearing down what worked fine before.

Indeed - very true:
"Wir sind nicht dumm. Nur etwas altmodisch."

I prefer to say this:
'If it ain't broke - don't fix it.'

We are happy with what we have & grateful to Dorian for keeping it alive for us.
Can that be good enough, please ??

Es gibt keinen "Sieg" hier zu haben ... das sollte schon jetzt offensichtlich sein.
Unsere Vorlieben sind ebenso harmlos wie ganz sicher.
Predigt über Marktanteile und andere Sachen, die wir hier nichts interessieren, ist lustiger als überzeugend.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2017 10:34PM by smallhagrid.

smallhagrid: I get that Goanna is not considered an option here apparently. What does that mean? Lots of breaking sites in the future and an increasingly unusable K-Meleon. If you are content with that... OKAY. Not my problem.

I feel I have already invested too much time here. People here are neither traditionalist nor conservative - just plain stubborn and unconsciously risk-taking.

And don't try to tell some touching stories drawn from your life. It's off-topic and adds nothing substantial to the thread. Of no concern to me.

Besides, I would have expected a more mature behavior from an adult, rather than throwing around words like "troll", like a twelve year old.

Pale as the Moon,

it isn't the fact that it will be less work in adapting K-Meleon shell to Goanna than to newer Geckos.

That's the problem. Dorian has the big experience with Gecko and nothing with Goanna. Moonchild never dealt with K-Meleon.

We're just users. We cannot agree or disagree, consider or not. Why to squabble on that?

Incredible.
Couldn't read all of those novels yet, just way too much. But while at first it may have sounded like perhaps (??) an interesting option, it very quickly got clear exactly why it's so important to still have alternatives left. At least a few tiny alternatives to mainstream, which kills everything else nowadays. Free market, yeah right, haha, but wherever I look today the terror of the majority has lead to far less diversity available, not more. In many fields zero alternatives anymore, if your interests are different you're lost. And once the big ones have grown into monopolies, they can do with you whatever they want, even spy out your private life and thoughts up to the tiniest details, despite privacy laws. Who cares. Eat it or die, great choice. Hardly any chance anymore today to buy any device which does not already come chock full of trojans and malware, some openly, some hidden deep in the system, even unremovable in CPUs. You must become a nearly professional programmer yourself to even start defending a bit against big brother. But who has the time.

Considering the mighty wave of relentless attempts here to force even the last tiny, colorful sheep into the uniform lemming crowd, without not the slightest diversity tolerated anymore, and trying to plain SCARE SCARE SCARE everyone into obedience (do it or you're dead!), it almost makes me wonder now if KM has started to become a competition risk - LOL!!

One thing is sure of course, each smaller project trying to survive by becoming a copy of the big ones will commit suicide, becoming just a bad copy, nothing unique anymore.

I'll support Pale as the Moon. The browser does not develop, Dorian abandoned it, it does not appear on the forum. The browser does not meet the challenges of the time. Please update the browser - it's not a whim - it's a must. If Dorian continues to ignore the fans of the browser, he (the browser) will die.

Just to mention a few things about WinXP and K-Meleon. I was late to the party when I decided to move from Win98SE to WinXP ... that was around April 2012. It took about a year to get all my settings and software exactly as I wanted for WinXP.

There were a few changes through the years but not many ... mostly just software updates and regular maintenance updates. I run no virus protection ... just Malwarebytes 1.75 every so often. I've had no problems with anything through the years. Good common sense and a good backup will work wonders. I have a good, clean backup from Jan 2017 burned to a DVD for all three of my WinXP notebooks. They are IBM Think Pads ... T41 and T42s (2004/2005) ... still going strong and looking good. They were made for WinXP! Like it's been said so many times, if it ain't broke, ... etc.

If all goes well, the DVD backups I made in Jan 2017 should be my last ... I have them in case one of my hard drives go bad ... can be up and running again in no time. Just simple updates will be needed ... Hosts file, Flash, Shockwave and etc.

There is a nice backup program called AX64 Time Machine by Bluebird ITY ... with a good DVD backup then AX64 Time Machine can work just fine. It has been renamed I think ... here is a link. It works with WinXP, not sure about the newest OS. Just to add, I use a USB flash drive for the Time Machine backup. I mostly only use one Think Pad notepad ... the others rarely get turned on. My original plan when I got my Think Pads was to have one for Win98SE, WinXP and Win2000 ... but WinXP took hold and the other two notebooks are just 'spares' now.

http://ax64.com/


I know my simple life solution it not for everyone ... some people really do need a more modern computer and OS but many of us don't.

I guess the problem in the future could be a good working browser for WinXP. I still use K-Meleon 1.8.24, an older version that still works very good in 2017. Some web pages are a problem but then there is Pale Moon (last XP version) and Firefox ESR for those sites.

In Feb I heard about this browser test site over at the MSFN forum under the WinXP thread. I tested my K-Meleon browser version and it had many problems. I quit using it for banking and other logins, going with Pale Moon ... which passed just fine in the test.

With help from the WinXP crowd, I was able to understand and fix all the problems with K-Meleon. It now passes all browser tests ... just as Pale Moon and Firefox do. I happen to like the older KM version that I am using ... fast and light.

Most of the people here probably know this test site but in case there are some people (like myself) that didn't know about it ... here is the page link.

My K-Meleon version may still not be 100% safe, as I said earlier it now gets a good report from the test results and with 'common sense' on my part, everything should be 'good to go' for 2017 and beyond.

I never added the POS update fix to my WinXP setup until this month (March). I am not going to get or use all the updates ... I just wanted to update IE8 with the March 2017 cumulative update. It hadn't been updated since April 2014.

I don't use IE8 for anything these days but I thought the March 2017 update would be of some use. It wasn't, it still fails the browser test but I use K-Meleon mostly and Pale Moon with Firefox as needed. Later on I may fool around with IE8 to see if it can be fixed but probably not ... not really needed anymore.

SSL/TLS Capabilities of Your Browser

https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/viewMyClient.html#1490956556944&frame_loaded

...



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2017 11:29AM by callahan.

Quote
Pale as the Moon
I get that Goanna is not considered an option here apparently.

Sei nicht böse, dass ich nochmals antworte. Nach 9545 Posts darf ich vielleicht.

Um es auf es auf den Punkt zu bringen:

Du hast uns nicht verstanden. Und du bist knörig.

K-Meleon ist eine sehr mächtige Shell/Oberfläche.
Hier wird keine GRE entwickelt.

Versuch Dorian zu erreichen.

Der benutzt Win fast nicht mehr.
Und kommt hier selten her.

Dorian, nicht wir, entscheidet, was und wie es gemacht wird.


mfG guenter

p.s. Einige hier benutzen noch k-meleon 1.6 und Win98. Nach einer Zeit ist alles so alt, dass die Sicherheitslücken keinen Angriff mehr lohnen. Weil kaum einer mehr da ist. Und die alten Programme sind einfach kleiner und schneller.

Kaum einer hier braucht neue Hardware für das neueste Spiel oder den 64 Bit Adress-Raum.

Gut genug für den Zweck reicht. Meine sonstigen Vorbehalte habe ich dir angedeutet.

Die anderen machen sich unnötig Sorgen. Wenn Dorian Zeit und Lust hat - wird es sogar die Moon-Fork-Engine mit K-Meleon in 32 Bit für XP geben. Lächel.
Das Problem ist Zeit. Lust hat er öfter.

Aber ich denke es ist besser an eine Linux Version mit Wine anzupassen.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2017 04:24PM by guenter.

I am late posting to this thread. Can I ask, without starting a new fire, that we just close this? Dorian is the programmer. I think all the rest of us are just users. We cannot change the engine.

For whatever reason(s) each of us have to use K-Meleon are reason enough for that person. Most will not change unless the reason(s) change.

I am lucky enough to have three machines running Windows 10 pro (64 bit) so hardware is not my concern. I am not going to move from K-Meleon until either my bank or broker stops accepting K-Meleon.

I will stop now. No one needs to hear me rant.

Quote
JamesD
Can I ask, without starting a new fire, that we just close this? Dorian is the programmer.

Full Ack!

Quote
Yogi

Quote
JamesD
Can I ask, without starting a new fire, that we just close this? Dorian is the programmer.

Full Ack!

Ok. I can close when most of You agree.

Maybe notify Dorian?

He is more than the programmer - he is the core dev since more than 10 years.


p.s. Like JamesD, I also have and can afford the newest hardware.

It is a matter of choice mostly. Win7 & later deprive me of my right of decision.

And Dorian had his HDD formatted by Win recently - he wrote!

That stopped development.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2017 10:26PM by guenter.

Quote
guenter

And Dorian had his HDD formatted by Win recently - he wrote!

That stopped development.

probably wouldn't 've happened if he was using XP.

Quote
disrupted

Quote
guenter

And Dorian had his HDD formatted by Win recently - he wrote!

That stopped development.

probably wouldn't 've happened if he was using XP.

XP also cuts rights but not as bad as later systems.

p.s. You are in England? Mashallah. :O

How is Your mom, better I hope.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2017 09:07AM by guenter.

Quote
Pale as the Moon
With all due respect, I don't think keeping support for Windows XP (and Vista, for that matter) is a responsible decision nowadays. Microsoft dropped support for this OS in 2014 and it hasn't received any security updates ever since. Windows XP is one huge security concern and no browser or AV software is going to fix the inherent security issues of the OS. I wouldn't even dare going online with it. Every OS before Windows 7 (the oldest OS Microsoft currently supports) should be dropped as of now.

I dare, and I am.. With my over 10 years old (back then "business") laptop which i have kept for the nostalgic reasons.
It has Windows XP SP3 POSReady,and I'm receiving security update patches until april,2019. (Like is everyone else with XP POSReady,also updates to Microsoft Security Essentials av-definitions..)
Needless to say, I am running a very lightweight and GOOD firewall with hips, privatefirewall from privacyware, which is Freeware and supports Windows XP!
As for using web-browsers with the machine... EVERYTHING goes thru SANDBOXIE and also what comes in, STAYS THERE.
Sandboxie is updated frequently, is not a resource hog (well,it depends what you run in it, but I'm running K-Meleon, since it's the fastest and most light-weight Gecko browser around,period) and supports Windows XP & Vista 100%.
Adblocker plus and javacript+flash blocking in K-Meleon 75.10 Pro are quite nice..
I haven't got a single infection coming thru, (not even into the sandbox..)

You can get those security updates even for a normal Windows XP thru a registry hack which probably everyone knows about since it's all over the net since for years, but Microsoft does not endorse that nor give anykinda warranties for those XP versions to be secure or running stable and does not encourage doing so.

Just my few cents..

If i were a slightly better coder, i would be here fixing some firefox add-on's for the k-meleon people to run on K-M.
Too bad those whom used to do it, are more or less on hiatus..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2017 07:12PM by Zweiny.

Quote
callahan

There is a nice backup program called AX64 Time Machine by Bluebird ITY ... with a good DVD backup then AX64 Time Machine can work just fine. It has been renamed I think ... here is a link. It works with WinXP, not sure about the newest OS. Just to add, I use a USB flash drive for the Time Machine backup. I mostly only use one Think Pad notepad ... the others rarely get turned on. My original plan when I got my Think Pads was to have one for Win98SE, WinXP and Win2000 ... but WinXP took hold and the other two notebooks are just 'spares' now.

http://ax64.com/

Oh please... don't use ax64.com pages,it seems to be a fork of an old original ax64 site...
atleast ax64.com looks like an hacked site with all those ISIS shouts in the news section..
the new owners moved it to xeroweight.com site,and renamed the software to flashback or something.. (now xeroback or whatever..) after the developer got kinda tricked into selling the real ax64 software to the people in australia whom were doing some buggy backup software called robobackup or such... things really started to go downhill a big way..
Last time i heard about this "flashback" software and it's company xeroweight, is that they did an bankrupt.
The only "stable" version people consider is from the original developer's times.. v1.4.x something i think..
Please head over to wilderssecurity forum to see the discussion there and learn about the software, its past and the "future" ..
The original developer, Isso created and started that topic for the software,while it was still called AX64 ...
It is very interesting reading if you want to know what is going on these days,and you will find the download links for the LAST STABLE versions of AX64 which were v1.4.x something .. and coded by the original developer alone...

AX64 Time Machine @ Wilders Security

just head over to that site,and read especially the newest pages to get somekinda picture of what is going on... people paying for upgrade licenses for upgrades they never got from the new company,and the original developer apologizing for all the people whom "suffered" and was even willing to refund some of the people off his own wallet, eventho in the end he had nothing to do with how the software turned out to be under the holdings of the new owner(s).



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2017 07:39PM by Zweiny.

Quote
Pale as the Moon
but rather against "Windows Embedded POSReady 2009".

Which is Windows XP without games.

Quote
Pale as the Moon
Furthermore no browser out there apart from Firefox 52 ESR still supports XP.

IE 6 will receive sequrity updates till 2016 as already said.

Quote
Pale as the Moon


LOL, even normal browsers need it sometimes. Let's assume Windows uses 1 GB or 2 GB of RAM already, that means max. 2 GB are available. Those are easily filled when running multiple tabs in multiprocess mode of modern browsers. But OK, as you wish.

To make 32-bit XP to use all RAM (increase RAM limit) one has to patch one byte in a dll. There is third-party software to do this.

Quote
Anixx

Quote
Pale as the Moon
LOL, even normal browsers need it sometimes. Let's assume Windows uses 1 GB or 2 GB of RAM already, that means max. 2 GB are available. Those are easily filled when running multiple tabs in multiprocess mode of modern browsers. But OK, as you wish.

To make 32-bit XP to use all RAM (increase RAM limit) one has to patch one byte in a dll. There is third-party software to do this.

It is a 3 GB RAM limit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3_GB_barrier Which is plenty.

And as You say - can be extended.

p.s. Normal Gecko browsers gobble up much RAM and let Win never have 1 or 2 GB.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2017 04:16PM by guenter.

Quote
guenter

p.s. Normal Gecko browsers gobble up much RAM and let Win never have 1 or 2 GB.

Can't confirm. It boils down much on how one is used to use the browser and individual surfing habits.
See pic below. Also bear in mind that my Win7 allone needs arround 1 GB RAM.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This thread went totally off topic.

I just want to say to you, Pale As The Moon, that not all of us can afford newer computers.
Vista is my last stop and my budget just won't allow me to go on any further.

Please don't sound so cocky when you post these types of messages because it
doesn't go over well at all.

I've been using KM for many years and love it and appreciate all the work that
goes into it. The fact that KM works on XP and Vista is a plus for alot of us
and hopefully problems that folks are having with KM will be resolved in the near
future.

I'm not a programmer but, I also have PM Portable and have seen the changes Moonchild has gone through with the different versions.
It would be nice to see the Moonchild & KM Teams working together if this is what
would resolve the issues that KM is having.

Still A Happy KM User - Have a nice day

Sorry for my little opinion here because I'm only a very recent user. At least for me, Pale Moon seems slower and weaker than K-Meleon on certain heavy sized sites. Anyway, it's quite a flaming joke try to replace Gecko by Goanna. I meant, really? Why? What for? Furthermore, I think that there are enough improvements, tricks and everything else around the forum to release at least K-Meleon 75.2 -- with latest improvements by Rodocop for example. I still use Chrome the most of the time, but K-Meleon Rodocop's version is still installed in my computer because it's just a nice piece of useful software for some tasks (mail services just fly with K-Meleon). By the way, thanks to you all for your perseverance!
http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?2,141328

J.C.

the reason supposed for Goanna transfer is only one - modern compatibility. But you are right that for now K-Meleon is much faster in terms of user experience.

If you like KM Pro 75.10 you should be happy with new KM 76 Pro from my signature: it has all the nice features from previous build and new ones.

I only have installed K-Meleon 76 RC Pro Portable by Rodocop:
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.2; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/38.0 K-Meleon/38.7.1esrpre
My changes are minimal:
- disable web icons saving to disk
- change language to spanish
- change search engine to duckduckgo
- disable all history settings
- disable remember login data
- enable link prefetching
That's all, and it's working nice for me!

If Km Pro is really fully portable, than web icons saving to disk option should be unchecked by default.

Or not?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/2017 05:15PM by panzer.

Quote
panzer
If Km Pro is really fully portable, than web icons saving to disk option should be unchecked by default.

Or not?

They are saved in places.sqlite in profile folder so I think not obligatory.

> But while at first it may have sounded like perhaps (??) an interesting option, it very quickly got clear exactly why it's so important to still have alternatives left. At least a few tiny alternatives to mainstream, which kills everything else nowadays.

It is not only an interesting option, but most likely the only option. Or do you have a better proposal that does not include stagnation/slow death? And no, K-Meleon is not outside of the mainstream. It uses the same rendering engine Firefox uses - and Firefox is pretty mainstream. It doesn't matter what the optics of a product suggest, the only relevant thing is the rendering engine. The site administrator could care less whether you use Firefox, Waterfox, Pale Moon, Cyberfox, SeaMonkey, K-Meleon... Everything revolves around the Gecko engine, of which development here has stalled. Hence my proposal.

> the reason supposed for Goanna transfer is only one - modern compatibility.

Yes, exactly. rodocop, you seem to be very capable when it comes to the K-Meleon code. Could you evaluate some patches the Pale Moon team has done to Gecko 38, as to improve compatibility? It's up to people like you and Dorian to bring the browser forward, after all. Please have a look at the code if possible.

> IE 6 will receive sequrity updates till 2016 as already said.

We are living in 2017. IE 6 is ancient.

To sum it up: I don't care whether you use XP, Win 2000 or something. I refuse to deal with platforms this old anyway and most people are happily living in the present without those. Seems like they are not a requirement for productivity, after all. But anyway, use as long as you wish, whatever the consequences. Not my problem.

The real issue I was trying to bring up is the rendering engine of K-Meleon that is falling behind more and more. If you don't do something about that this browser will die a slow yet annoying death. A rebase on either a newer Gecko engine (rather unlikely) or Goanna (very likely) should be considered and made a top priority. Everything else is irresponsible, unrealistic nonsense.

Thanks for your attention.

Quote
Pale as the Moon
> IE 6 will receive sequrity updates till 2016 as already said.

We are living in 2017. IE 6 is ancient.

There is still a sincere amount of people having a reason to use Windows 98; there are many inofficial updates making it also today well usable, and there are still people making developments for W98 for the wide community. And I experience IE6 still as the best, the fastest browser for W98 at sites supporting it, especially where Javascript not necessary.

To say "We are living in 2017. IE 6 is ancient" is a symptom of mainstream live philosophy.

Quote
Mikk

Quote
Pale as the Moon
> IE 6 will receive sequrity updates till 2016 as already said.

We are living in 2017. IE 6 is ancient.

There is still a sincere amount of people having a reason to use Windows 98; there are many inofficial updates making it also today well usable, and there are still people making developments for W98 for the wide community. And I experience IE6 still as the best, the fastest browser for W98 at sites supporting it, especially where Javascript not necessary.

To say "We are living in 2017. IE 6 is ancient" is a symptom of mainstream live philosophy.

"Inofficial updates"... Yeah, as you wish. Windows 98 is almost 20 years old. We are living in times of streaming, cloud computing, SSDs, Blu Ray... The times you are talking about were about floppy discs, HDDs etc. Notice the difference? It's called development. There is no reason to use anything less than the most modern technologies, other than nostalgia or plain stubbornness. And no, old technologies are not more efficient than newer ones. Or would you call a HDD better than an SSD, or a floppy disk better than an SD card? How pathetic. IE 6 is/was most likely the most hated piece of software ever developed, for it failed to work properly even back in the day when it was first released. It does not even remotely handle modern sites well. Try to render current YouTube, FaceBook, Ebay, Amazon sites with it. Doesn't all the breakage look cute? Yeah, no Javascript, I know...

Honestly, this discussion takes place in stone age times I don't want to live in anymore.

By the way: Refusing to use software that does not work properly anymore (if it ever worked properly to begin with) does not equal "mainstream philosophy". It's a sign of common sense. If I refuse to use a wrecked car or if I refuse to live in a house without a roof am I complying to the mainstream by your definition? The inherent ignorance of your statement is quite insane! Is this a parody?

@Pale, what do you would think if someone recommends to you to use Chrome's engine for PaleMoon in order to reach something good for your productivity or something? You have said a couple of times at least that K-Meleon browser is at one no-end road, but probably PaleMoon is in a not better situation neither because Goanna is only supported by your development team. It isn't a good idea to move from a no-end road to another without an easy comeback way. Mozilla's team is quite bigger imho so while Mozilla is releasing engines there is no problem -- so the only fact here is the outdated but still useful Gecko engine, nothing more. Probably it would be equal difficult to adapt Goanna than adapt newest 52ESR engines. If people if just happy using "old" software, I support their happiness anyway. Just my two cents!

Pale as the Moon,
thank you for you words, but I should disappoint you: I'm not a coder at all. All my skills lay in the field of amateur scripting (like using KM macrolanguage for basic tasks) and all of them I've got only here, trying to make something for K-Meleon.

But binary coding is terra incognita for me. XUL and JS are partly readable and editable for me but I can't develop using them.

Sorry once again.