General :  K-Meleon Forum
General discussion about K-Meleon. 
Pages: 123Next
Current Page: 1 of 3
Using the Goanna engine instead of Gecko in K-Meleon...
Date: March 15, 2017 07:07PM

Dear Dorian, dear K-Meleon community,

this post was created in order to propose a possible solution for the stagnating development of K-Meleon. As far as I understand you are currently trying to rebase K-Meleon on Gecko 38. However, Gecko 38 is already outdated security-wise and also when it comes to the actual rendering. You may have noticed that the Pale Moon team has forked Gecko 38 as part of their own rebase. The resulting engine was called Goanna 3.0. Switching the current K-Meleon to Goanna would make a whole lot of sense, seeing how Goanna is still maintained.
This would provide K-Meleon with several advantages:
- the workload of K-Meleon development could be reduced tremendously
- making the rapid releases of Gecko iterations redundant
- you would avoid problems when it comes to features like e10s later on
- Goanna is very fast, K-Meleon could profit here
- synergy effects for Pale Moon and K-Meleon development

This is not meant as advertisement for Pale Moon, but as a way out for the K-Meleon community. You should take this move into consideration.

If you are interested in Goanna: https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?t=8607
Current state of Pale Moon development: https://github.com/MoonchildProductions/Pale-Moon

You may want to get in contact with Moonchild, the lead developer of Pale Moon.

Have a nice day,
Pale as the Moon



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2017 07:14PM by Pale as the Moon.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Using the Goanna engine instead of Gecko in K-Meleon...
Posted by: Jody Thornton
Date: March 16, 2017 06:31AM

Also to echo some of Pale As The Moon's sentiment, following in Pale Moon's lead might provide a quick fix to the Facebook issues I posted about. That thread keeps dying from lack of interest around here, but these things should be top of mind, if there is any future for K-Meleon's user base.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Using the Goanna engine instead of Gecko in K-Meleon...
Posted by: smallhagrid
Date: March 16, 2017 06:42AM

It is a good browser, but...PM has dropped support for XP.
When purely using Linux this does not matter to me & many others.

BUT:
When using XP in any of several ways, PM is OUT whereas K-M is 100% fine.

If changing the rendering engine also means dropping XP support, that could also kill K-M simply because there are a great many still keeping XP as their OS.

Of course there are those who pooh-pooh any mention of XP & dismiss its users as irrelevant, insignificant & unimportant - but in the specific case of K-M this is likely a 100% incorrect response.

Folks who prefer K-M also have a preference quite often for a minimalistic, classically oriented browser as opposed to those who think it is just great to chrome-ize EVERYTHING.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Using the Goanna engine instead of Gecko in K-Meleon...
Posted by: JohnHell
Date: March 16, 2017 06:59AM

Quote
Jody Thornton
Also to echo some of Pale As The Moon's sentiment, following in Pale Moon's lead might provide a quick fix to the Facebook issues I posted about. That thread keeps dying from lack of interest around here, but these things should be top of mind, if there is any future for K-Meleon's user base.

It is strange I didn't said in the other thread you are mentioning, but it is not lack of interest.

We need developers. How many developers has Pale Moon?

Are you a programmer?, please, join the development team and start fixing things.

We, most users, can't do anything. Is not more or less interest is lack of options.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Using the Goanna engine instead of Gecko in K-Meleon...
Posted by: disrupted
Date: March 16, 2017 03:53PM

Quote
Jody Thornton
Also to echo some of Pale As The Moon's sentiment, following in Pale Moon's lead might provide a quick fix to the Facebook issues I posted about. That thread keeps dying from lack of interest around here, but these things should be top of mind, if there is any future for K-Meleon's user base.

try this user-agent:
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; Trident/7.0; Touch; .NET4.0E; .NET4.0C; Tablet PC 2.0; rv:11.0) like Gecko

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Using the Goanna engine instead of Gecko in K-Meleon...
Posted by: Jody Thornton
Date: March 16, 2017 07:28PM

No I'm not a developer. Merely a consumer. But it doesn't mean I can't bear an interest in K-Meeleon's future.

Moreover, if it's not a lack of interest on the K-Meleon team's part, and just a lack of opinions, then get on the fourm and say so. Don't leave the "Facebook" thread doemant for weeks on end, because the DOES look like disinterest.

And never mind trying more useragents. The Pale Moon team and users tried that repeatedly with mixed results. Maybe whoever is left developing should contact Moonchild and join the team.

And if that scares you because XP support is still a concern, well how much future does K-Meleon hold if there is not a wealth of development talent: XP support or not? There are even a lot that still use Win 9x on an older version don't they? Could that not be accomodated similarly for Windows XP?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/16/2017 07:30PM by Jody Thornton.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Using the Goanna engine instead of Gecko in K-Meleon...
Date: March 29, 2017 04:41PM

With all due respect, I don't think keeping support for Windows XP (and Vista, for that matter) is a responsible decision nowadays. Microsoft dropped support for this OS in 2014 and it hasn't received any security updates ever since. Windows XP is one huge security concern and no browser or AV software is going to fix the inherent security issues of the OS. I wouldn't even dare going online with it. Every OS before Windows 7 (the oldest OS Microsoft currently supports) should be dropped as of now.

Honestly, if you need software that refuses to run on newer versions than XP you should buy a Windows 7 Professional/Ultimate license and install it. Windows 7 Professional/Ultimate allow for the installation of Virtual PC, a VM software emulating Windows XP SP3. This is my advice to all those clinging to an almost 20 year old OS.

Apart from security concerns keeping XP/Vista support isn't viable anyway, as Mozilla is going to drop support for them in Gecko 53. No Gecko engine newer than 52 will be developed with operating systems this old in mind, meaning that K-Meleon will die one day should it not drop XP/Vista support.

As I said, Goanna is currently your easiest way out and should really be considered.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Using the Goanna engine instead of Gecko in K-Meleon...
Posted by: Anixx
Date: March 30, 2017 04:16AM

> Microsoft dropped support for this OS in 2014 and it hasn't received any security updates ever since.

32-bit WinXP receives security updates till 2019

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Using the Goanna engine instead of Gecko in K-Meleon...
Date: March 30, 2017 04:03PM

> 32-bit WinXP receives security updates till 2019

LOL. You have to do a registry hack in order to receive those updates which were never tested against XP itself, but rather against "Windows Embedded POSReady 2009". How many people are going to do such a registry hack? How many people can't use those updates anyway because of 64 bit?

Besides, if you are still running XP I assume you are using extremely old hardware, as there usually are no drivers for XP nowadays. Thus you can't profit from newer hardware-related software features anyway. Furthermore no browser out there apart from Firefox 52 ESR still supports XP. Once Firefox 52 ESR ends support for XP (mid 2018) what are you going to use afterwards? Can't be K-Meleon really, as the engine this browser currently uses (Gecko 38) is insecure like hell as of now.

People should let this old software platform (Windows XP) die, as it is only holding back overall development and is not even remotely on par with current operating systems. Not security-wise and much less feature-wise.

Upgrade to Windows 7 at least and be done with it. Professional/Ultimate even offer an XP mode.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Using the Goanna engine instead of Gecko in K-Meleon...
Posted by: rodocop
Date: March 30, 2017 08:59PM

Well, I think no one of us shouldn't decide for other people whether to leave XP or not.

I can only say that all this 'security hype' about XP is much more about speculation than about reality.

You definitely can use XP without 'unpredictable risks' just following some rules that are worth following even under modern OSes.

K-Meleon itself is one of the defence lines, anyway.



What about using Goanna... This is talk for developers, not for us, users. Well, if Dorian and Moonchild would find some points of common interest - may be it could get some future.


Latest Release KM75.1 Latest dev KM76RC ||| Visit The K-Meleon Place and join me there!
Old good stuff: KM-1.6db+NS © dugbugoffice // KM-16-S2014 © Fred // KM-1.6beta2.6 © JamesD // KM Twin+ © rodocop // KM 1.8.24.22 © adodupan

RECOMMENDED! K-Meleon 76 Pro ==» Download portable: 7zip or EXE =//= Discuss on forum
K-Meleon 75.1 Pro: Download =//= Discuss || Portable Flash plugin (x86/x64 DLLs)

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Using the Goanna engine instead of Gecko in K-Meleon...
Posted by: guenter
Date: March 30, 2017 10:01PM

OT Since I am no dev.

Quote
Pale as the Moon
> 32-bit WinXP receives security updates till 2019

LOL. You have to do a registry hack in order to receive those updates which were never tested against XP itself, but rather against "Windows Embedded POSReady 2009". How many people are going to do such a registry hack? How many people can't use those updates anyway because of 64 bit?


XP and "Windows Embedded POSReady 2009" are the same system.

Updates are merely not tested with (all) PC hardware.

You only need a 32 bit system. 64 bit are a waste of resources.

Few programs need the extended address range.

A few specialists and hobbies need that range.

Quote
Pale as the Moon

Besides, if you are still running XP I assume you are using extremely old hardware, as there usually are no drivers for XP nowadays. Thus you can't profit from newer hardware-related software features anyway. Furthermore no browser out there apart from Firefox 52 ESR still supports XP. Once Firefox 52 ESR ends support for XP (mid 2018) what are you going to use afterwards? Can't be K-Meleon really, as the engine this browser currently uses (Gecko 38) is insecure like hell as of now.

CPU Typ Mobile DualCore AMD Turion 64 X2 TL-56, 1800 MHz (9 x 200) are quite old but totally sufficient.

Internet. Films. Text. Tables.

You do not need bells and whistles for the old wife.

Chrome can be compiled 32 bit for XP. e.g. http://browser.taokaizen.com/

Not only FF 52 ESR.

The problem of the industry - it is good enough and they want to sell something.

Quote
Pale as the Moon

People should let this old software platform (Windows XP) die, as it is only holding back overall development and is not even remotely on par with current operating systems. Not security-wise and much less feature-wise.

Upgrade to Windows 7 at least and be done with it. Professional/Ultimate even offer an XP mode.

I am into shares and dividends. MS pays well. They want XP to die.

So do RAM makers for 64 bit needs twice as much as 32 bit...

Sure all above Win7 have the latest spy features NSA wished for.

Security wise. Ok if MS XP system is so old take away the old software patents.

So that the holes left open by MS can be closed by others. Why don't they?

It boils IMHO down to - monopolies and others want us to buy their things and this security hype is just a ruse to get techies on board of the bandwagon.

The dumb end users must follow - because they are lamers.

Many do not need or want it or cannot afford to change. Lets us scare them.


But I am out of this - I am no dev.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2017 11:43PM by guenter.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Using the Goanna engine instead of Gecko in K-Meleon...
Posted by: smallhagrid
Date: March 31, 2017 12:09AM

Greed's most favoured tool - brainwashing with a heaping garnish of fear-p*rn.
It works a treat too !!

All those who MUST have the latest & greatest OS because M$ 'says so' are equally likely to have a hazmat team tear down their 2 year old house when they've seen (at a 'safe' distance, of course...) some moss growing on their foundation...
Time for a new one, right ??
No problem - all the bankers & other folks will be totally delighted to take that $$$, just like M$ and the remainder of the tech industry does.

Specifically as regards older OSes:
Right now - today - many, many years after their making, there are many mission critical systems that run on 'dead' OSes like DOS, OS/2 & NT3.x & 4.
Got any missile silos within 1000 miles of your place ??
If so, it may be time to worry because ALL of those run on such old systems.

XP...?
Actually I prefer Win2kPro myself - but some s/w requires XP.
Having VMs of both solves this problem.

Newer M$ OSes on a PC or those funny 'Apple' badged PCs ??
No thanks.
I'm not gullible enough to buy into such silliness.

If/when browsing problems become too out of control, I'll just switch to an Android device for browsing - simple as that.

And hey - to the folks who willingly submit to buying the latest stuff non-stop:
My sincerest thanks.
After all - somebody has to do that, right ??



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2017 12:13AM by smallhagrid.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Using the Goanna engine instead of Gecko in K-Meleon...
Date: March 31, 2017 03:08AM

> XP and "Windows Embedded POSReady 2009" are the same system.

No, because...

> Updates are merely not tested with (all) PC hardware.

...of this. That's why it's called "Embedded". This also means updates could cause more damage than they usually would as they are not tested against a variety of hardware variants. Why are people dealing with this suboptimal solution instead of using a legitimate Windows with legitimate updates?

> You only need a 32 bit system. 64 bit are a waste of resources.

In how far is 64 bit a waste of resources? Most 64 bit operating systems out there are running just fine, and this is all that matters. Also, not being able to address more than 4 GB RAM is a pity nowadays. Gamers or people producing HQ video files couldn't even work with such a system. Likewise people who run multiple programs at the same time, which is what modern computing is all about.

> Few programs need the extended address range.

LOL, even normal browsers need it sometimes. Let's assume Windows uses 1 GB or 2 GB of RAM already, that means max. 2 GB are available. Those are easily filled when running multiple tabs in multiprocess mode of modern browsers. But OK, as you wish.

> A few specialists and hobbies need that range.

That's plain wrong. See above.

> CPU Typ Mobile DualCore AMD Turion 64 X2 TL-56, 1800 MHz (9 x 200) are quite old but totally sufficient.

Old? Ancient, rather.

> Internet. Films. Text. Tables.

But not at the same time and not with the most recent versions of the respective programs I suppose. The browser alone could very well bring this processor to its knees nowadays.

> Chrome can be compiled 32 bit for XP. e.g. http://browser.taokaizen.com/

Now that's ridiculous. Don't know how stable this version is or who the guy producing it is, but the point I wanted to make is that there is no MAJOR browser vendor still supporting XP (apart from Firefox 52 ESR for a very limited period of time). So browser support on XP is essentially dead, and rightfully so.

> Not only FF 52 ESR.

Name one other MAJOR browser vendor who supports XP nowadays. I'm waiting. Hobby projects don't count as such.

> The problem of the industry - it is good enough and they want to sell something.

Are you even aware of all the changes that happened between XP and Windows 7, let alone Windows 8 and Windows 10? XP can't even compare when it comes to the technologies a modern Windows supports. SSD support is very limited on XP, for example. You can't expect Microsoft to support an ancient platform indefinitely. And yeah, I'm sure buying a Windows license for a few bucks every 20 years makes you a top customer of Microsoft and a major source of their income. Are you even aware that Microsoft earns its money via services nowadays? Windows licenses are not that much of an income, that's why they basically gave Windows 10 away for free. They want to sell services, not licenses.

> I am into shares and dividends. MS pays well. They want XP to die.

Letting an OS run out of support after a rather generous 13 years of support is very evil of Microsoft... I see where you are coming from, LOL. Should they just skip development altogether and remain on an ancient platform because you belong to the minority that is still content with it?

> So do RAM makers for 64 bit needs twice as much as 32 bit...

Plain wrong. Check out some specs of 64 bit PCs. 64 bit means more than just addressing a few more RAM by the way.

> Sure all above Win7 have the latest spy features NSA wished for.

Windows XP was/is also phoning home. It is known. NSA was there long before the idea of XP was even born.

> Security wise. Ok if MS XP system is so old take away the old software patents. So that the holes left open by MS can be closed by others. Why don't they?

You understand the meaning of the word "property", right? Why should Microsoft give away their intellectual property for free? Tell me why. By the way, if free and open source software projects would work so well then why does Linux have around 1% market share?

> It boils IMHO down to - monopolies and others want us to buy their things and this security hype is just a ruse to get techies on board of the bandwagon.

Um, no. For one you don't have to rely on Microsoft if you don't like them. There's also Linux and macOS. Again, Microsoft doesn't make all too much money through Windows licenses nowadays. The services are the type of thing that makes money. Microsoft was giving away Windows 10 for free. And "security hype"... Yeah, I guess using an unsupported OS full of known vulnerabilities is a great idea. The vast majority of system admins disagrees. Sometimes concerns are legit, like it or not.

> The dumb end users must follow - because they are lamers.

No, the "dumb" end users stay on an unsupported OS version and expect Microsoft to support it indefinitely. The users conscious about security did switch to newer versions which on top of it offered more features and live happily ever after.

> Many do not need or want it or cannot afford to change. Lets us scare them.

"Can't afford"... Honestly? A Windows license is below 20 bucks on EBAY, and you were already waiting 20 years before upgrading. What you need or want is secondary, especially when your PC could easily be used as a part of some botnet, thus jeopardizing the security of other PC users in general. And "scare them"... LOL. Every concern about the security of XP is legitimate nowadays, look up the list of known vulnerabilities alone! Staying on this OS is pure insanity. And again: Supporting an OS for 13 years is already extremely generous of Microsoft and you should be very thankful for that. How long do Apple or the major Linux distributions support an OS version? Don't even compare!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2017 04:12AM by Pale as the Moon.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Using the Goanna engine instead of Gecko in K-Meleon...
Posted by: smallhagrid
Date: March 31, 2017 03:30AM

OK, so...

That is my only reply.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Using the Goanna engine instead of Gecko in K-Meleon...
Date: March 31, 2017 03:31AM

> All those who MUST have the latest & greatest OS because M$ 'says so'

No, not just because Microsoft "says so". Microsoft ended XP support after a very generous 13 years of support. You can't expect a software vendor to support an ancient platform indefinitely, especially not in the software industry where all is about progress and innovation. Microsoft did the right thing, making people come over to a more modern & more stable platform after allowing them to run the very same OS for over a decade. What's wrong about that?

No problem - all the bankers & other folks will be totally delighted to take that $$$, just like M$ and the remainder of the tech industry does

> Yeah, because Microsoft makes soooooooooo much money with Windows licenses. LOL. Services - and not licenses - are the things bringing the money in nowadays. That's why "M$" (kid's slang) gave Windows 10 away for free. If the income generated by OS licenses was so important to them they wouldn't have done that. And I'm sure you buying a license for a few bucks will make MS a lot more richer...

> Actually I prefer Win2kPro myself - but some s/w requires XP.

Even more ancient. Why not using Windows 3.11... I mean, why not?

> Newer M$ OSes on a PC or those funny 'Apple' badged PCs ??

Funnily enough both macOS and current Windows versions are more stable than 2000 or XP. The bluescreen says HELLO to you, I guess.

> I'm not gullible enough to buy into such silliness.

And I'm not gullible enough to use an ancient OS, far behind the times, and with thousands of known and potentially exploitable vulnerabilities.

> If/when browsing problems become too out of control, I'll just switch to an Android device for browsing - simple as that.

Yeah, changing from an OS that ran long out of support to an OS which will never receive updates in most cases. You are aware of security, aren't you?

> And hey - to the folks who willingly submit to buying the latest stuff non-stop:

Yeah, buying a new Windows license after a decade Microsoft typically supports a single iteration surely qualifies for "non-stop". This has to be a joke.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2017 04:03AM by Pale as the Moon.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Using the Goanna engine instead of Gecko in K-Meleon...
Posted by: smallhagrid
Date: March 31, 2017 03:34AM

Previous reply applies perfectly.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Using the Goanna engine instead of Gecko in K-Meleon...
Date: March 31, 2017 03:34AM

> That is my only reply.

Hopefully, as it is full of nonsense. I'm just saying that XP is insecure which every single system admin would agree to. Just because you don't like this most obvious truth doesn't mean I'm a troll. If insults are your only possible response then I hope you remain true to your word and get out of here.

EDIT: Pity, you replied despite claiming otherwise before. smallhagrid - Zero respect, zero arguments. You are qualifying more for the word "troll" than I ever will.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2017 03:36AM by Pale as the Moon.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Using the Goanna engine instead of Gecko in K-Meleon...
Posted by: smallhagrid
Date: March 31, 2017 03:40AM

Not an insult.
This is a K-M forum populated by users who are quite happy with it.
Except for you & other board spammers who peddle hate.
Yes, your replies to the good folks here make your ID as a troll by the very definition of it.
You have contributed little or nothing of any value whilst trying to bring about your own agenda.
Regulars here respond & you dis them, at length.

Perhaps there is an unhappiness discussion forum made especially for folks who like to sow the seeds of unhappiness so freely ??
(I will not be seeking such a place myself.)

Yep...zero - zero - zero.
Whoopie.

BTW I have many PCs, other devices & quite an assortment of browsers too.
(Even Palemoon.)
I can use the latest versions of everything under the latest Linux easily.
Of them all - I prefer & use K-Meleon the best...just as it is.

OK, time for your next inflammatory post...though I know I've provided too much troll food already.
(Apologies to the other, real forum users here...none of you deserves to be punished with this endless absurdity.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2017 03:47AM by smallhagrid.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Using the Goanna engine instead of Gecko in K-Meleon...
Date: March 31, 2017 03:52AM

> Not an insult.

"Troll" is a totally unjustified insult in this case.

> This is a K-M forum populated by users who are quite happy with it.

OK, two things: 1) In my initial post I was trying to present a way out for the K-Meleon community because I want this browser to survive. Did you even notice that? 2) This thread was turned into a discussion about XP despite this never being my goal. I just said that XP is unsupported and thus insecure, which is by all means true. Don't know where your aggression stems from.

> Except for you & other board spammers who peddle hate.

Where do I peddle hate? Is saying that an OS is unsupported and therefore dangerous to use "hate"? Honestly, maybe it's a warning, but by no means hate.

> Yes, your replies to the good folks here make your ID as a troll by the very definition of it.

NO. A troll would try to infuriate people by claiming nonsense. Neither did I bring up nonsense nor was it my goal to infuriate people. Don't know why you are attacking me out of nowhere.

> You have contributed little or nothing of any value whilst trying to bring about your own agenda.

Wait, what? Read my initial post. That's a realistic way out for the K-Meleon community being worth some consideration. And it's not "my agenda". I'm neither the K-Meleon dev nor the Pale Moon dev. It's a proposal. Nothing more, nothing less. The XP defenders which I had no chance to foresee came afterwards, for whatever reason.

> Regulars here respond & you dis them, at length.

Yeah, for sure. That's not even remotely true.

> Perhaps there is an unhappiness discussion forum made especially for folks who like to sow the seeds of unhappiness so freely ??

Proposing a solution to a community currently being in stagnation is "sowing unhappiness"? Think again.

> OK, time for your next inflammatory post...though I know I've provided too much troll food already.

You were the first to attack me and I'm the one creating inflammatory posts. OK, I see that.

> (Apologies to the other, real forum users here...none of you deserves to be punished with this endless absurdity.)

That's true. It's really absurd how it is possible to get attacked this way just for claiming that XP is not supported anymore, which is objectively true. Your aggression is highly inappropriate.

smallhagrid, you are a very unfair and insulting individual, at least this is how are you presenting yourself here. I gave you no reason to attack me. If you don't like me for whatever reason that's OK, but it's no reason to insult me as a troll. I'm not insulting you either, am I?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2017 03:55AM by Pale as the Moon.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Using the Goanna engine instead of Gecko in K-Meleon...
Posted by: smallhagrid
Date: March 31, 2017 04:16AM

This forum is where users help other users.
Anyone who spends a bit of time here will notice that it is at least 99% posted in by users and very seldom by K-Meleon's dev.

I am not a coder by any means - just a K-Meleon user like so many here.

Has the dev pitched in to your wonderful idea thread ??
Have other users said 'Yay - great idea !!!'
I don't think so.

Look around with open eyes & mind here; many of us have, use & prefer older stuff; many of us (from what I can tell) also despise the chrome-ization of all other browsers.

K-Meleon is wonderful for those of us who desire EXACTLY this sort of browser.
It has been around a nice, long while & will likely be around for a while longer, but that is up to the dev, really.

Trying to create dissent & dissatisfaction in an otherwise peaceful & harmonious place IS a form of trolling, yes.

There is NOTHING truly wrong with K-Meleon in its present form for us folks here.

If you prefer otherwise then perhaps you might work to create a better one yourself - as nobody else here seems very likely to become a follower in your suggested line of thought...perhaps you've noticed this ??

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Using the Goanna engine instead of Gecko in K-Meleon...
Date: March 31, 2017 04:34AM

Yet again: I'm not creating dissatisfaction or dissent by any means. This was an actual proposal that is far more realistic to accomplish than, say, bringing K-Meleon up from Gecko 38 to Gecko 52. Electrolysis alone will be a huge problem then. I'm not sure whether or not this community has the spirit or the competence to go down this route. That is not an insult by any means. I'm just saying that it will require a load of time, manpower and maybe some money. When it comes to manpower I highly doubt this can be accomplished, and that's also something I have noticed using "open eyes and mind".

So there are three options:

- Going down the route I proposed. That's rather realistic and can be accomplished considering that K-Meleon is already on Gecko 38.
- Rebasing on Gecko 50+, which will require manpower this project simply does not have. Very unrealistic.
- Remaining on Gecko 38, accepting its security issues, and dying long-term because of increasing rendering failures.

You choose. So non-informed people may not like and/or ignore my proposal, but there is no other realistic chance other than the death of this project.

And no, changing useragents like it is proposed by most people here is not the solution for everything. It might solve issues with sites discriminating certain browsers, yes. But if a rendering engine inherently lacks HTML standard X then sites will still fail to render correctly, because - you guessed it - the STANDARD IS JUST NOT IN THERE.

Those problems will increase, that's for sure.

Oh and by the way: Mozilla as well as the Pale moon project have dropped XP and Vista support, so if K-Meleon is to have any chance of survival it will also have to drop them at some point.

So there is that.

And please stop referring to me as a troll. Insulting people is not okay and cannot be considered a good quality. Honestly, I don't like you much either when I look at your unjustified insults and attacks, yet I'm not going to randomly insult you by posting not-so-funny pictures or by words. That's just not my standard.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2017 04:44AM by Pale as the Moon.

Options: ReplyQuote
Please no personal attacks
Posted by: guenter
Date: March 31, 2017 04:37AM

Ladies and Gentlemen. Please no personal attacks etc.

@ Pale as the Moon - Sorry. You obviously felt flamed.

That was not my intention.


I cannot agree to anything in Your answer.
But I see no use in discussing it excited.
I am out.

I am really into shares and presented my reasons and my objections.


best greetings from Hannover, Germany, guenter



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2017 04:41AM by guenter.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Please no personal attacks
Date: March 31, 2017 04:40AM

@guenter: Where does all this XP love come from? Has nobody here used Windows 7 ever? I'm sorry, I just don't understand this attitude. XP is nowhere to be seen in the wild nowadays.

I have no issue with you. smallhagrid is constantly accusing me of trolling which was never my intention. I find this highly inappropriate to be honest.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Using the Goanna engine instead of Gecko in K-Meleon...
Posted by: rodocop
Date: March 31, 2017 04:44AM

Dear Pale of the Moon, please calm down.

Well... Look:

- you come here with an abstract proposal that consists of nothing to be done neither by you nor by us. Except Dorian, our dev. And he isn't here in discussion now.

- you are ignoring our humble arguments for the current way of K-Meleon. Well, it's not definitely perfect, but it has its reasons. XP support is one of them.
But you are not just keeping on ignoring us but you went further starting full-featured propaganda campaign (well, it isn't really, but it looks very alike) against XP.
You inspired this offtopic battle, not 'XP-defenders'.

- you made some irrelevant conclusions about our community - and made them in form of fully categorical statements.

So you don't show REAL readyness for dialogue. You just came to bring us, miserables, The Light!

So what are you waiting for after all that?



Wait a minute. It all above was about IMPRESSIONS. But you know - nowadays they are frequently more important than real intensions.

So once again, the constructive:

1) Your proposal is one that could - and should (I think) - be considered and thought about.
2) This is agenda for developers primary. As for me - I stay for any possible interaction and cooperation. It can be useful for both browsers sure.
But what about our devs? Do they really have resources to make this connection working?

We don't know. And without knowing this all this talk is just shaking the air.

Let's wait and see.


Latest Release KM75.1 Latest dev KM76RC ||| Visit The K-Meleon Place and join me there!
Old good stuff: KM-1.6db+NS © dugbugoffice // KM-16-S2014 © Fred // KM-1.6beta2.6 © JamesD // KM Twin+ © rodocop // KM 1.8.24.22 © adodupan

RECOMMENDED! K-Meleon 76 Pro ==» Download portable: 7zip or EXE =//= Discuss on forum
K-Meleon 75.1 Pro: Download =//= Discuss || Portable Flash plugin (x86/x64 DLLs)

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Please no personal attacks
Posted by: rodocop
Date: March 31, 2017 04:51AM

Quote
Pale as the Moon
@guenter: Where does all this XP love come from? Has nobody here used Windows 7 ever? I'm sorry, I just don't understand this attitude. XP is nowhere to be seen in the wild nowadays.

XP still has 8,5% of market share today. Twice from Linux and MacOS together - for example.
Almost equal to Win 8+8.1 shares.

We - most of us here - do use XP everyday or sometimes. We use it. Like it. Need it.

P.S. Sure we also use Win 7, Win 8 and Win 10 (some of us). We welcome maximum diversity. So K-Meleon is about some universal freedom to all of us.


Latest Release KM75.1 Latest dev KM76RC ||| Visit The K-Meleon Place and join me there!
Old good stuff: KM-1.6db+NS © dugbugoffice // KM-16-S2014 © Fred // KM-1.6beta2.6 © JamesD // KM Twin+ © rodocop // KM 1.8.24.22 © adodupan

RECOMMENDED! K-Meleon 76 Pro ==» Download portable: 7zip or EXE =//= Discuss on forum
K-Meleon 75.1 Pro: Download =//= Discuss || Portable Flash plugin (x86/x64 DLLs)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2017 04:54AM by rodocop.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Using the Goanna engine instead of Gecko in K-Meleon...
Date: March 31, 2017 04:56AM

@rodocop: If I come across as aggressive then I apologize for that. I just don't find it okay that people like smallhagrid start to insult me out of nowhere, for no good reason.

Regarding XP, that's no propaganda war. This OS is unsupported since spring 2014 and is highly dangerous to use given its vulnerabilities. This is not just my opinion. You can ask every system admin, every IT specialist. Hell, you can even ask Microsoft and they'll all tell you that nobody should use XP as of now.

I wanted to hint at this fact. If people feel they have to defend an outdated, highly insecure OS that's fine. It's their risk, not mine. As long as they don't insult me I could care less.

And regarding my proposal: Yeah, the lacking manpower of the K-Meleon project is most obvious. That's why all this stagnation is happening around here. So it's highly likely that a rebase on a newer Gecko engine is not feasible. The only way out there (apart from slow death) is Goanna. It's logic.

I mean, I am open for dialogue. But dialogue requires an opinion different from mine. Yet nobody came up with an alternative proposal as of now. And this has reasons, as the only alternative is not feasible at all (manpower issue).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2017 04:58AM by Pale as the Moon.

Options: ReplyQuote
Using the Goanna engine instead of Gecko in K-Meleon...
Posted by: guenter
Date: March 31, 2017 04:59AM

Yes - I am not too poor to buy new hardware with OS - I have Win OS 3.1 to 8.1.

I prefer XP cut down to Win2000 with nlite, 2000 or 98lite stripped WinME.,

smallhagrid probably felt that You attacked some of the here prevalent attitudes or people. To provide for low resources is one of the fads here.Take it as it is.


Greetings to Hessen or so.


guenter

p.s. Normal hätte ich nicht mehr geantwortet. Dorian nutzt Win nicht mehr gern.
Er ist wegen der vieljährigen Gemeinschaft noch da.

edit: Rodo hat Recht. Im Osten (Russland China) ist XP noch gebräuchlich.
Dort gibt es auch professionelle Chrome Editionen für XP. Yandex Browser war unlängst noch für XP.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2017 05:04AM by guenter.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Please no personal attacks
Date: March 31, 2017 05:03AM

Given that macOS has 7% market share and Linux has 1% market share this can't mean that XP with 8,5% has double their share.

Also the comparision with Windows 8(.1) is lacking. macOS, Linux, and Windows 8 all have current versions that regularly receive security updates. XP does not.

It's not so much about market share than it is about security. And XP's market share is further dropping.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Please no personal attacks
Posted by: guenter
Date: March 31, 2017 05:08AM

XP und "Windows Embedded POSReady 2009" sind binär gleich. Höre auf zu streiten.
Wenn du es nicht besser weißt. Wir sind nicht dumm. Nur etwas altmodisch.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2017 05:08AM by guenter.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Please no personal attacks
Date: March 31, 2017 05:12AM

Sie mögen wohl binär gleich sein... Das stand hier nicht zur Debatte. Die Updates werden nicht gegen gängige Hardwarekombinationen getestet, auch das ist Fakt. Man sollte sich also nicht beschweren, wenn es zum BRICK kommt. Wie gesagt, Windows 7 Professional/Ultimate bieten beide einen XP Mode an, was diese ganze Debatte noch unverständlicher macht.

PS: Spezielle chinesische Formen von Chrome? Yandex? Also 0,00001% Marktanteil? Noch obskurer kann es eigentlich nicht werden.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2017 05:16AM by Pale as the Moon.

Options: ReplyQuote
Pages: 123Next
Current Page: 1 of 3


K-Meleon forum is powered by Phorum.