Howdy, folks? Long time, no see. Hope everyone is doing well.

I'm trying out KM (1.6B2) again after a long vacation. Well, actually I wasn't really on vacation all this time, I've been spending all this time learning how to fight my way through Windows 8 and 8.1 and more or less loosing the battle. It's good to see the KM project has been getting more active lately.

I'm hoping someone can explain something to me. If I install the KmmGoogleCache macro, should the cashed pages I access automatically refresh when "When the cached page is out of date" is selected in Preferences > Network/Performance > Cache > Cache comparison > Determine when K-Meleon should compare cached contents to the network? Or would I always have to manually refresh the page to ensure I am viewing up to date content?


Thank you.

Charlie

~~If it ain't broke, why screw it up?~~

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caktus
Howdy, folks? Long time, no see. Hope everyone is doing well.

I'm trying out KM (1.6B2) again after a long vacation. Well, actually I wasn't really on vacation all this time, I've been spending all this time learning how to fight my way through Windows 8 and 8.1 and more or less loosing the battle. It's good to see the KM project has been getting more active lately.

Belcome back. Sorry to hear. Maybe reactivate an older Windows like XP or Win7 and make it dual boot with the new system flavor - if drivers can be obtained?

I write this on an ex Vista machine that runs on XP Pro SP3 now after it was dual boot, when it was young. When I had found all needed XP drivers Vista was eventually deleted.

Are You sure that K-Meleon 1.6.B2 (though it still may have its merrits) is the currently best, stable K-Meleon development version?

Yes active. The first reasons for the activity are probaly mentioned in Dorian's post Anyone still using kmeleon? Dorian found some time and got bored, it seems.

You will find the most recent reasons and activity in Announcements K-Meleon 74 RC 2 and in the Download section. :drool:

Additioannly naruman and adodupan have versions with other development / under construction based on Dorian's initiative and codes posted in Development.

I'd use when the "When the cached page is out of date" because that gives the least network load and keeps the pages up to date at the same time.

Greetings to sunny Florida from not so sunny Lower Saxony, guenter



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2014 07:12AM by guenter.

Hi Charlie, just wondering what exactly do you need it for, since cache age matters to you? That doesn't make much sense to me, considering that "current" googles cache is mostly outdated compared to the real website anyway. Or do you only have trouble getting the cache-links back on a search page?

And for heavens sake please consider not using such a horrible outdated KM version :O Even on my win98 1.6b2 is obsolote since years! If your current system is XP or newer, there's only one reasonable choice at the moment and that's KM74RC2 (or the two parallel forks, but eventually only KM74 will become official)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2014 07:44AM by siria.

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caktus
I'm hoping someone can explain something to me. If I install the KmmGoogleCache macro, should the cashed pages I access automatically refresh when "When the cached page is out of date" is selected in Preferences > Network/Performance > Cache > Cache comparison > Determine when K-Meleon should compare cached contents to the network? Or would I always have to manually refresh the page to ensure I am viewing up to date content?


Thank you.

Both things are unrelated.

One thing is the Google Cache and other the browser cache settings.

And, by the way, that macro is outdated and won't work. I may be wrong, but the last time I tried Google had changed all the way their cached pages were requested and now the sites aren't requested by URL encoded but with a hash of a webpage.

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guenter
I'd use when the "When the cached page is out of date" because that gives the least network load and keeps the pages up to date at the same time.

About the option (that is why I quote you, guenter), there is a little... unacknowledged thingy.

Most pages nowadays, including those in this forum, are created dinamically. This is that when you request a page to a server, the server serves a new page everytime and, therefore, the date of the page is the time when you last loaded it.

So, when you select the option "When the cached page is out of date" you are actually doing nothing. Because the page is everytime being out of date.

Just check the page you are in right now and press CTRL+I. Reload the page, and do it again. Check the dates. Do you understand what I mean?

The option is now only valid for static scripts, images, etc, and not ever, as it is more and more common to be served dinamically too (PHP has an option to do it).

In some ways, that options almost working as the option "Whenever a page is loaded", that is the option I have.

Only hosts like geocities.ws that I posted the other day in dev subforum serves the pages with a kept date. You can check it if you want the same way I told above: link


NOTE: Dorian, if you read this, take note that if the url has an anchor, the page information can't be retrieved.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2014 02:20PM by JohnHell.

JohnHell, never though about dynamically generated pages and that it mostly boils down to always nowadays because they have become an almost industry standart.

I thought that it could be said too that the expiration date is renewed continuosly, so it never expires or gets out of date too.

Anyway, caching is not as useful as in the past.

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JohnHell
I thought that it could be said too that the expiration date is renewed continuosly, so it never expires or gets out of date too.

Anyway, caching is not as useful as in the past.

Yes.

I had only noticed that for some obscure reason the dates of postings in Forums are not refreshed/updated to the actual date of the last post in the overviews.
Unless I Force Refresh.

But I never switched my brain on till You pointed me at it.

Thx.

If you must force-refresh that's yet another setting again. That dynamic thing makes that pages get loaded new much more often than necessary, not the other way around.

Yes it may be true that most sites today, especially industry-sites and forums have dynamic dates with fake claims "modified NOW". Nevertheless there are still enough out there with a true date, so I find those setting options still useful



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2014 07:29PM by siria.

Sorry it's taken me a while to reply back, Guy's. Between a NEW machine, Windows 8.1 and a Verizon Wierless connection gone far south it's been nearly, totally impossible for me to use the WWW. That's why I was looking into the possibility of using "cached pages," in an attempt to speed up page load times. Thak you, JohnHell, for that in-depth explanination. Come to think of it, it seems to have been quite a while since I have even noticed cached page links amoung Google listings.

siria, you're spot-on about the "fake claims "modified NOW"." They make about as much since as blaiming everything that's gone wrong for the past six years on Bush.:cool:

I'm again using my old machine with Windows 8.0, and my finally figuring out how to fix the settings on my Verizon Wirelss router that the Verizon store had SUPPOSEDLY fixed, I can once again use the Web on demand.

I would have preferred to stick with XP but the cheap, 6+ year old machine it was on had finally pettered out, I guess something on the Mother Board fried as I couldn't even pull up the BIOS let alone the OS. Any way, I figured it wasn't even worth paying the Geek Squad to exmine it. I wanted to replace it quickly rather than buy online and it seemed impossible to find locally, anything but Windows 8.0.

BTW, I wonder if Windows XP is still safe since MS no longer supports it, or if good anti-virus/spyware, etc. is enough to keep it safe. I know one thing for sure, every version of XP is as simple to configure and cutomize as it is to use; very stable and an excellent work horse. I can understand why MS created Windows 8 and it's touch feature; for use with Tablet's, phones, etc. What I can't understand, is why at the last minute, they decided to permit OEM's to install it on PC's, it doesn't seem practical, it just doesn't figure; Well, except for the money, I guess.

Using the Classic Schell makes Windows 8.0 (NOT 8.1) very simple once I managed to get rid if the junkware. It seems the MS and OEM junkware keeps getting more dificult to remove. Anyway, the settings in Classic Schell can easily be configured to make 8.0 every much like XP.

As far as I can tell, K-Meleon 1.6.B2 has been about as stable as need be in addition to being incredibly fast and simple. I fell back to K-Meleon 1.6.B2 after finding that Twin+ was too troublesome, or maybe it was just TOO HARD for me to handle. Perhaps at the time, it still had more bugs than I could deal with. I'm sure I will eventually feel adventureous enough to give K-Meleon 74 a shot, probably once it's beyond the RC stage.

You all be :cool:

Charlie

~~If it ain't broke, why screw it up?~~

Hi Charlie,
RC IS beyong RC-state - in Final state since yesterday night
Look at the end of the RC2 thread.

But if you still want to stick with 1.6beta, perhaps parallel to KM74 for awhile, then *please* install 1.6beta-26 by JamesD instead. That is far ahead of Beta2, which really has too many bugs, and it's just not necessary. Just look in rodocops sig-line to find the current link to beta26 the quickest

Sorry for your trouble with the systems!! HORROR... that's exactly my nightmare too, why I'm still clinging hands and feets on my trusty old win98 machine! For you the desaster is finally over, mostly at least, for me still threatening in the future waah... ;-)

Hi, I bought a new PC a couple of weeks ago with Win 8.1. This was because my anti virus program (Avira) say at the end of the year they will stop support for XP pro3.

Well, that new computer is going back as 8.1 is the biggest pile of c**p I have seen in 25 years of using computers. I will have to take Curry's (UK) the supplier to court because they refused to take it back. In the meantime I bought a recon HP PC with windows 7. That is much more user friendly than 8.1.

Anyway this is a touch off topic, but as far as the cache is concerned I suggest you use a cache cleaner such as purgefox. I found with win 8.1 that it was downloading all kinds of crap that I did not want as were the apps it came with. It was a hell of a job trying to find whare all this junk was being dumped on the HD. Improved security in 8.1 what a joke.

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caktus


I'm again using my old machine with Windows 8.0, and my finally figuring out how to fix the settings on my Verizon Wirelss router that the Verizon store had SUPPOSEDLY fixed, I can once again use the Web on demand.

I would have preferred to stick with XP but the cheap, 6+ year old machine it was on had finally pettered out, I guess something on the Mother Board fried as I couldn't even pull up the BIOS let alone the OS. Any way, I figured it wasn't even worth paying the Geek Squad to exmine it. I wanted to replace it quickly rather than buy online and it seemed impossible to find locally, anything but Windows 8.0.

BTW, I wonder if Windows XP is still safe since MS no longer supports it, or if good anti-virus/spyware, etc. is enough to keep it safe. I know one thing for sure, every version of XP is as simple to configure and cutomize as it is to use; very stable and an excellent work horse. I can understand why MS created Windows 8 and it's touch feature; for use with Tablet's, phones, etc. What I can't understand, is why at the last minute, they decided to permit OEM's to install it on PC's, it doesn't seem practical, it just doesn't figure; Well, except for the money, I guess.

ISP seem to be the same everywhere. I stopped having any patiance after ditching htp Hannover after almost 10 years. When they did not manage to get a line going that had outages that lasted up to a month for more than a year.

Now I record what is wrong: screenshots, router protocols of the outages etc. and write registered letters. I tell them the bill is wrong because of the outages. I give 3 weeks to fix else I threaten to leave the provider. Works better now. Get some cash back and service gets fixed faster.

They can play their games with kids not men in their sixties.

XP still gets updates but not the consumer line. Use needs full backups (not reset points!) before fixes are applied - like on USB plus that You try & test all the updates one at a time Yourself. MS does not test them for consumer line any more.

There are cumulative updates till May 2014. And IMHO after that is finished, people will start to publish tested updates from the non consumer branch.

The same procedure as for Win2000. Only this time the user base is bigger.

XP is still save of sorts. Do a customized install CD with nlite. That deactivates known issues such as Windows Scripting Host, services never needed on an end user PC, do not install Outlook and maybe parts of IE. Use XP Antispy for some more customizing and deactivating.

IMHO it is then set up similar to good old Win2000.

Install Process Explorer and autoruns to know what starts and runs.


These can kill rogue apps that already run and can switch off all that is not needed to autostart. Viruses need to start somehow for that they need to be in autostart. Only known apps must autostart. And for better performance the minimum number.

I only autostart what I must nor forget to start e.g. my firewall.

This plus updated virus control and some common sence is as good as none and Win8.1.

And if You can accept that a Live CD or a write protected USB start slow use that.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2014 07:46PM by guenter.

@ siria Thank you, I'll download RC and give it a try. If I decide I don't like it, I'll give JamesD's 1.6beta-26 a try. I probably would have tried 1.6beta-26 sooner but this is the first I've heard of it. I hadn't been visiting the KM site for quite a while when the project was at a stand-still. It's good to see the project is active again. I see SF is getting more active too since they are taking on some advertising.



@ martinw2 You're absolutely right that "8.1 is a joke." A very bad joke. If it's possible, you may want to uninstall the 8.1 Update. The Win 8.0 is much easier to work with, with the Classic Shell is installed on top of it. The Classic Shell is free, safe, has no ad-ware and is very easy to setup. But if the OS came pre-installed, removing the 8.1 Update may not be possible.



@ guenter "XP still gets updates but not the consumer line."

I'll bet sooner or later MS will do more than "advise" against it. They'll probably hack around it in some way that can't be legally circumvented.

As for "good old Win2000." Although many clerical folks in the VA system are still using DOS, doctors and nurses systems throughout the VA hospital system have been upgraded to Win 2000 since about 20+ years ago and they love it. Some have been upgraded to Win 7 with no apparent complaints. But I hear some who have personally experienced Win 8 say they hope the system is never upgraded to Win 8.

Personally, to me, Win 8 doesn't seem so bad with the free Classic Shell . But as for Win 8.1; FORGET IT!

I undersatnd MS is already working on Win 9. I wonder what that will be like? Better than 8.1, I hope.

Charlie

~~If it ain't broke, why screw it up?~~

no problem making 8.1 appear exactly like xp. keep working with it. glad to see you here caktus. Windows Next is interactive live tiles on the Modern side; a buncha phone windows. previewed here april http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUfMszCJSwI

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caktus
They'll probably hack around it in some way that can't be legally circumvented.

It is not legal in most countries to download and use the current updates if You own none of the systems that MS still supports. But an US Eula is not valid in all countries. And even where it is valid financial risks might be lower.

Win2000 has IMHO not been 20+ years around. Its about 14 years. The professional server line was supported quite long. And users that knew enough and wanted to update other versions after the EOL used this source while it leaked. People in this forum put me on this spoor recently.

IMHO the XP community will follow a similar slot.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2014 01:19PM by guenter.

i.ri.

I just don't see it. Anyway, I've gotten rid of 8.1 and am back to 8. Classic Shell make 8 almost like XP in every way. About the only native thing I particularly like about 8 is the IE update to version 10 which is a lot more stabel and is usable with a lot of web sites that didn't work properly, or at all, with previouse IE versions. However, IE is still anomg my last browsers of choice.

In addition, I mostly don't care for the touch screen thing. I had a touch screen with 8.1 and as is the case with many folks, I feel the touch screen just dousn't fit well with the PC, which is all I use. If I used an anbroid, tablet, lap top or such, the 8 and 8.1 with the touch screen feature would be right up my alley. 8 wasn't even disigned for the PC market, but as usual, the dollar won out and MS licensed OEM's to preload it on PC's.

Charlie

~~If it ain't broke, why screw it up?~~