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Re: "No Cypher Overlap" / Opera with TLS1.2 on Win98
Posted by: Yogi
Date: February 25, 2018 10:32PM

@Siria

It would be fine if you could make Opera 12.18 work on Win98.

Quote

The new Opera 12.18 removes some obsolete security protocols and finally adds the elliptic curve cipher suite. This is the one security feature which many websites started implementing from the beginning of 2015 and which rendered the old Opera 12.17 useless with them. With this, the reborn Opera 12.18 should be able to last for many more years. source

There is no much difference between Opera Presto USB and the normal installer. You can install the latter as portable too (Options/Install for: Stand-alone-installation/USB).

(Edit: adjusted title after thread split)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2018 05:15PM by siria.

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Re: "No Cypher Overlap"-Apocalypse sad smiley Github all dead, SF mostly etc
Posted by: rodocop
Date: February 25, 2018 10:47PM

No one was able to run 12.18 under 98 - as we can conclude looking at MSFN forum. Sorry.


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Re: "No Cypher Overlap"-Apocalypse sad smiley Github all dead, SF mostly etc
Posted by: siria
Date: February 25, 2018 10:58PM

Yeah have tried some newer versions, but turns out Opera 12.02 really is the last one that works, at least on my only partly updated system. With KernelEx set to Win2000. But that's already more than I had expected, finally important websites start working again.
And found there's actually an official Opera site for getting all sorts of older versions:
ftp://ftp.opera.com/pub/opera/win/

To my surprise youtube started working again too! Or rather pretending too: more stuttering as playing, close to unusable. And seems to ignore the autoplay-setting in opera prefs. Only noticed a tiny button on the page itself in the upper right corner. Am greatly missing all my pref controls and privbar-additions from KM, but perhaps there are Opera extensions for it, or other tricks?

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Re: Re:
Posted by: Yogi
Date: February 26, 2018 09:31AM

@Siria

The following buttons from the PrivBar are available by default in Opera Presto: Toggle Cookies, Toggle JavaScript, Toggle Animated Images, Toggle Referrer and Toggle Proxies (Customize/Buttons/Preferences).
Besides, you can toggle Plug-Ins. You can shorten the buttons by editing the language file located in the locale folder.

Furthermore you can costumize your mouse gestures, so you can access quickly the options for deleting Private Data:


BTW, examples for common search strings:
GoogleDE 100 Results:
https://www.google.com/search?num=100&safe=off&hl=de&biw=956&bih=443&noj=1&gbv=2&site=webhp&q=%s
GoogleUS 100 Results no redirect:
https://encrypted.google.com/search?num=100&safe=off&hl=en&biw=956&bih=443&noj=1&gbv=2&site=webhp&q=%s


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Re: Re:
Posted by: hermes
Date: February 26, 2018 03:48PM

I'm probably late, the forum periodically hangs long, but maybe the information
will be useful. Although late of course grinning smiley.

********************************************************************************
At a minimum, Opera 12 and the first of so-called as Opera NEXT can be launched
directly on Windows 98. Opera NEXT releases are newer than the official so-called
as retail version. But they have been removed from opera ftp server (need version
12x releases and they have been removed).

If whom it will be interesting...



Recorded a small video (with full installation and with a view of modern youtube
with HTML5 video from under Windows 98) 2018/02/26:

(direct link) https://getfile.dokpub.com/yandex/get/https://yadi.sk/d/UFpM08AN3SmNZi (~951 KB)

Popup error (this user.exe) can be corrected (if desired) with adding a small
corrected Launcher.
********************************************************************************

Maybe it's funny who is interested to see what YouTube looks like from under Windows 98.

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Re: "No Cypher Overlap" / Opera with TLS1.2 on Win98
Posted by: siria
Date: February 26, 2018 07:44PM

Quote
hermes
At a minimum, Opera 12 and the first of so-called as Opera NEXT can be launched directly on Windows 98.
Recorded a small video (with full installation and with a view of modern youtube with HTML5 video from under Windows 98) 2018/02/26:
(direct link) https://getfile.dokpub.com/yandex/get/https://yadi.sk/d/UFpM08AN3SmNZi (~951 KB)
Maybe it's funny who is interested to see what YouTube looks like from under Windows 98.

Thanks for the video, Hermes. As a side-effect, have now finally learned how that Ping-thing works grinning smiley
What surprised me: when you unzip the setup.exe, you get completely different folders as when I do the SAME with the exact SAME file! That is, the filenames are identic, but perhaps not the download locations. Mine is from the Opera ftp-server, and it unzips at first step with "normal" subfolders. Learn-effect #2 from your video: when some setup-file unzips to 'cryptic' stuff, the real app is hiding inside the [0] file - ha! grinning smiley

Well, your video also shows that KernelEx is definitely needed on Win98.
Have now done a few tests again, and Opera 12.02 has partly missing menus until KernelEx tells it to be on Win2000. Then looks okay.
Later versions do not run at all for me, but may well be that it's only related to that network-adapter thing, not the system itself. The error at startup is only something like "connected device not functioning".

Am a bit envious that youtube works so well on your machine, mine is definitely far too weak, on RAM and disk space etc.

@Yogi
Thanks for the tips, have now actually found the configuration for those native PREF buttons. Would be great, the only prob is that I don't manage to enable them. Neither checkmarking, nor dragging them into some toolbar space, on top or side or bottom, nothing works :-/
No idea if it's system related, or have already messed some prefs etc.

Not sure what "no redirect" means here. Have seen that recently somewhere else too, but when I try those URLs all search hits contain the same redirect-targets as always *riddling*



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2018 08:07PM by siria.

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Re: "No Cypher Overlap" / Opera with TLS1.2 on Win98
Posted by: Yogi
Date: February 26, 2018 09:48PM

Quote
siria
Neither checkmarking, nor dragging them into some toolbar space, on top or side or bottom, nothing works :-/

Under normal circumstances the buttons can be dragged to the toolbar of ones choice.
No idea, why it doesn't work. You can try "F12" but I'm afraid that this won't work either.

Quote
siria
Not sure what "no redirect" means here. Have seen that recently somewhere else too, but when I try those URLs all search hits contain the same redirect-targets as always *riddling*

It means that Google won't redirect according to your IP (in your case to Google.de).

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Re: "No Cypher Overlap" / Opera with TLS1.2 on Win98
Posted by: siria
Date: February 27, 2018 01:27AM

Quote
Yogi
Under normal circumstances the buttons can be dragged to the toolbar of ones choice. No idea, why it doesn't work.

Have configured them in old Opera10, then copied over the ini-file to Opera12. Lucky, it worked smiling smiley

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Re: "No Cypher Overlap" / Opera with TLS1.2 on Win98
Posted by: hermes
Date: February 27, 2018 11:06AM

@siria

I can advise to disable OCSP Validate Certificates, this will reduce the number of errors SSL.
But need enable all TLS / SSL option (Enable SSL, Enable TLS 1-1.2).
...
In addition, OCSP, I have always disabled on all KM. It works a little faster.
And fewer servers are requested (about:networking).

And for applications of wget class (there is a version and under 9x) block OCSP in General
normally for all systems, not only legacy.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2018 11:19AM by hermes.

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Re: "No Cypher Overlap" / Opera with TLS1.2 on Win98
Posted by: rodocop
Date: February 27, 2018 02:09PM

what prefs should be changed to disable OCSP?


Latest Release KM75.1 Latest dev KM76RC ||| Visit The K-Meleon Place and join me there!
Old good stuff: KM-1.6db+NS © dugbugoffice // KM-16-S2014 © Fred // KM-1.6beta2.6 © JamesD // KM Twin+ © rodocop // KM 1.8.24.22 © adodupan

RECOMMENDED! K-Meleon 76 Pro ==» Download portable: 7zip or EXE =//= Discuss on forum
K-Meleon 75.1 Pro: Download =//= Discuss || Portable Flash plugin (x86/x64 DLLs)

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Re: "No Cypher Overlap" / Opera with TLS1.2 on Win98
Posted by: Yogi
Date: February 27, 2018 03:45PM

@Rodocop

Assuming that you are asking for K-Meleon - "security.OCSP.enabled" set to "0"

@Siria

I have OCSP disabled myself (privacy concern) but keep in mind that at very rare ocasions it can slow down Opera Presto rendering it almost unusable.
Happened on a single site till now and it took me some time to figure out the reason. It was just Opera Presto, other browsers worked fine on that site with OCSP disabled.
Just saying, in case you might encounter such a situation.

Adendum:
I barely use Opera Presto nowadays. So i did a quick test with v12.18 to see how it performs (with OCSP disabled).
Chances to slow down your browsing with OCSP disabled are far bigger than I thought and it was in the past.
Example - on a fast connection the site loads more than thrice faster with OCSP enabled.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2018 06:23PM by Yogi.

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Re: "No Cypher Overlap" / Opera with TLS1.2 on Win98
Posted by: hermes
Date: February 27, 2018 04:11PM

@Yogi / rodocop for KM: (need a bit more for full effect)

pref("security.tls.unrestricted_rc4_fallback", false);
pref("security.tls.insecure_fallback_hosts.use_static_list", false);
pref("security.ssl.treat_unsafe_negotiation_as_broken", true);

pref("security.ssl.false_start.require-npn", true);
pref("security.OCSP.GET.enabled", false);
pref("security.OCSP.enabled", 0);
pref("security.OCSP.require", false);
pref("security.ssl.enable_ocsp_stapling", false);



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2018 04:12PM by hermes.

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Re: "No Cypher Overlap" / Opera with TLS1.2 on Win98
Posted by: J.G.
Date: February 27, 2018 04:19PM

Quote
hermes
@Yogi / rodocop for KM: (need a bit more for full effect)

pref("security.tls.unrestricted_rc4_fallback", false);
pref("security.tls.insecure_fallback_hosts.use_static_list", false);
pref("security.ssl.treat_unsafe_negotiation_as_broken", true);

pref("security.ssl.false_start.require-npn", true);
pref("security.OCSP.GET.enabled", false);
pref("security.OCSP.enabled", 0);
pref("security.OCSP.require", false);
pref("security.ssl.enable_ocsp_stapling", false);

@hermes, should I add these settings to the prefs.js file for better privacy ? confused smiley
http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?19,144468,144512#msg-144512



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2018 04:21PM by J.G..

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Re: "No Cypher Overlap" / Opera with TLS1.2 on Win98
Posted by: hermes
Date: February 27, 2018 04:57PM

@J.G.
undoubtedly : )

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Re: "No Cypher Overlap" / Opera with TLS1.2 on Win98
Posted by: J.G.
Date: February 27, 2018 10:22PM

Quote
hermes
@J.G.
undoubtedly : )

Thank you very much, added! smiling smiley

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Re: "No Cypher Overlap" / Opera with TLS1.2 on Win98
Posted by: 4td8s
Date: February 28, 2018 02:01PM

Quote
siria

Am a bit envious that youtube works so well on your machine, mine is definitely far too weak, on RAM and disk space etc.

and that's why you need to get a faster computer - not necessarily a brand new one but definitely one much faster than what you currently have.

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Re: "No Cypher Overlap" / Opera with TLS1.2 on Win98
Posted by: siria
Date: March 04, 2018 10:49AM

With this new/old Opera version I now have the prob that all of us will face with K-Meleon too in a few months, and also users who need older Firefox etc. versions:
Giant ADDONS archive was deleted, new users don't find anything anymore sad smiley

Rodocop posted this already, around next August Mozilla is planning to DELETE all xpi-addons online:
http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?9,145607
Just when K-Meleon started to be more compatible sad smiley
At least KM still has own extensions and macros, but for the more complicated stuff like ExExceptions and adblockplus, NoScript etc. we need the FF addons.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/2018 01:40PM by siria.

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Re: "No Cypher Overlap" / Opera with TLS1.2 on Win98
Posted by: 4td8s
Date: April 04, 2018 05:47PM

Quote
siria
With this new/old Opera version I now have the prob that all of us will face with K-Meleon too in a few months, and also users who need older Firefox etc. versions:
Giant ADDONS archive was deleted, new users don't find anything anymore sad smiley

Rodocop posted this already, around next August Mozilla is planning to DELETE all xpi-addons online:
http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?9,145607
Just when K-Meleon started to be more compatible sad smiley
At least KM still has own extensions and macros, but for the more complicated stuff like ExExceptions and adblockplus, NoScript etc. we need the FF addons.

But STILL you need to get a better computer than what you currently have, siria. you have more bigger problems with hardware than with the new Opera web browser you're using.

no more excuses for not upgrading to a faster computer - gosh darn it!
is there anybody else here that's using a "weak" computer like siria is doing? I'll tell that person to also get a faster PC. It's 2018, not 2008 or 1998 so Get with the times people.

Things change. Internet standards change - and they're much different than in decades past.

I've gotten rid of a motherboard in March 2018 that finally gave out (no longer "post" on bootup) on a relative's old Compaq computer that used to use an AMD Athlon XP 3200+ 2.2Ghz processor with 2x1Gb of DDR1 RAM sticks. Replaced the motherboard, CPU and RAM (I didn't have to change the hard drive) and re-installed Windows from scratch and feels a little faster.

So I no longer use any more old PCs that use anything less than a hyperthreaded Intel Pentium 4 and I'm no longer having problems running programs requiring CPUs with SSE2 support.

If I'm gonna run Win98se on an Intel P4, I'll run it thru VMWare since I'm running 32bit Win7 as the main OS on that Compaq PC.

I'm also using a cable internet connection with an average of 50Mbps so I needed a superfast computer to keep up with the relatively fast internet speed.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2018 05:54PM by 4td8s.

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