General :
K-Meleon Web Browser Forum
In not only continuation, but even extension of this thread: http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?1,154148
Or in short words: it is not acceptable to declare a rev. "stable" – and even "last stable" (in general – not for only a specifig version) if surfing to some sites just makes the browser totally crash (so that you have to kill it and start it over). In the mentioned thread the problem was bound to javascript (at the site: heise.de) – but that's not all: please do not visit digitalrepublic.ch with v75.1 – or the browser v75.1 ("last stable") crashes even if javascript turned off.
the problem: all later versions are officially only "latest release fork" (and not "officially declared stable") – and "weekly updates" is totally unacceptable for a "mid to long term stable stystem for an elderly person" – specially if you have modified some of the files that reside in browser folder – and then you always have to manually check if your changes are compatible with new version or adadpt new version with your special settings.
I want to be able to recommend the best configurable browser available (what K-Meleon visibly is) with the simple recommendation: "go to the download page and download 'last stable' version – then you don't run into problems" ... that's no longer true for quite a while now.
Btw: I would appreciate if the made changes are "bug fix" (that you really should update) or "only feature enhancement" (that are useful, but not "necessary not to run into problems") ...
... no – I won't stop using KM – but it's just too much work to update weekly and even not be sure if it is "as stable to be able to be declared 'stable' (to not run into (un)known problems)"
Sorry ... and "nichts für ungut" (as we use to say in german) ...
Yeah I see that as a huge prob long since too, but what do... especially, how to identify the "more" or "less" stable versions, since there are always TONS of changes, and almost all are "fixes"?
Perhaps this topic could be used for users like you to recommend the extra stable and well tested versions? And the clearly less stable ones, also based on real use testing?
Of course, is open to suggestions and comments but...
Appending to the above reply by siria:
the following is a quote from a Personal Message sent to "db" user as a reply to a similar question (partly in regard this thread he/she opened about color/web page rendering and I vaguely mentioned about).
When I told there that the unstable module of the browser is the engine, is because of some incompatibilities may arise when integrating with K-meleon and/or web standards compatibility of that engine version, that may lead to crashes.
Back to your comment:
I don't get what you meant here.
Except for preferences, engine preferences (not those starting by kmeleon.), there shouldn't be any incompatibility between personal configurations and engine updates, that is what updates actually are, so shouldn't break any system.
Could you give an example?
If the latest fork crash is because of the integration of engine+shell, not because of your profile folders. Or shouldn't.
What I'm trying to say with all the above, after all, is that we can't say that THIS is the version to use.
Is awesome you recommend K-meleon, but, personally, at least, can't recommend which version should be recommended to novels. I simply can't recommend one, but the latest and I'm not using it... My K-meleon use is its features (available to "my" version), not its engine.
And so, the latest (Goanna fork/build) is at the top of the Download page.
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2021 03:56PM by JohnHell.
... I assume you remember this thread:
http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?1,154145,154145#msg-154145
... and maybe also this one:
http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?1,155086,155086#msg-155086
... and another one:
http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?1,140470,140470#msg-140470
So far I have four files that I have to alter or replace:
\browser\defaults\settings\accel.cfg
\browser\defaults\settings\toolbars.cfg
\macros\main.kmm
\macros\zoom.kmm
... and one to add:
\macros\OpenAsURLx5.kmm
=> to get the right click url handling
open in the same tab
open in a new tab
open in a new window
open in a background tab
open in a background window
... plus to adapt the search engines by right click ...
=> to get the direct search by selecting word
google 100
duckduckgo
4x WP search (de/en/fr/it)
4x WP direct (de/en/fr/it)
8x leo.org (de/en/fr/it/es/pt/ru/...)
YouTube
... and some others ...
always a bunch of work to check or alter ... and add search engines – or tell me what's the config file for that
Something more: in the meantime it is absolutely normal (at least for me) to have several browsers in use – parallely and at the same time: °1: a simple browser for mostly text pages without scripting (and I don't mind if the page is not correct) – and as there is no scripting it is also useful for unknown sites (that's KM); °2 if the page does not load correctly SRWare Iron is used (youtube is such a case) °3 but not all pages load correctly (formulas in WP show the same raw syntax in Iron as in KM); and in such a case yandex browser and opera come tu use – and if all else failes (what can happen sometimes) there is still firefox (but not for eveyday use) ... so for everyday use KM is OK – except that it should not crash and need to be manually killed (what happens with 75.1) – but it really should not be that the "last stable" version crashes in that way ... that's why I complain about "last stable still being 75.1" ...
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2021 12:43PM by Voltaire.
Good info, thanks. And what a hassle, sigh...
Regarding your customizations, to reduce the hassle, if you only use one profile anyway, you could put your customized files into the profile folder.
The macros into a new subfolder /macros/ (from main.kmm I'd take only the changed modules, and rename the file)
OpenAsURLx5.kmm should be included as native macro anyway as far as I'm concerned, but oh well.
The zoom.kmm is tiny enough, perhaps just copy it over as is, and rename a bit, only the file itself.
The accel.cfg in profile is only meant to contain the few customized shortcuts, but in the past there was an old bug with certain keys or functions not working from profile.... would just try and see...
Aren't the customized search engines stored in profile folder automatically too??
Regarding toolbars.cfg, IMO a bad idea to change the main template, much better method is to create a new own skin folder (can be almost empty) and put the modified toolbars.cfg copy inside. If not enough to work (?), it needs also a copy of the skins/defaults/skin.CFG. The file structure would be (profilename)/skins/mycustomskin/toolbars.cfg + skin.cfg
No, I can't and don't need to remember all threads
The back key can be done on profile files as told in that thread. Didn't test back then. Did test now. Works.
Default combo keys can be override in the ways I told.
No mess on main K-meleon files needed.
Even those on setaccel can be overridden.
That was with menus, through menus.cfg, and in the end there wasn't a total limitation or was fixed on later versions. I would search in which thread was told but I don't have the time to search for it now. I know I joined the conversation, so some post I made had the answer.
No, I don't remember either.
But, again, there is no need to mess with main files, just append to a menu your own entries. You could even delete those you don't like through setmenu command.
Obviously requires a little interest in macro language to accomplish. It is unavoidable if you use K-meleon.
No, I can't remember everything, and less 5 years ago. They already gave you a user-side solution.
Again, no mess with K-meleon main files, even though I'm quick reading all threads examples you gave.
I'm not going to agree or disagree, less with search engines because I don't use them (have my own personal macro solution that fits my needs), but I will you route to the home page of K-meleon and its main "Title":
K-Meleon - The Browser You Control
In other words, if you need features, if you don't like the behaviour, you can change it. Usually, mostly, 99%, without involving K-meleon root folders and files.
It is normal. If you see my monster profile of 16 years old using K-meleon, what would you think of those little changes? I still remember when 0.x versions weren't strict with macrolanguage and I had to fix dozens of macro files when I switched to 1.x. THAT was a hassle
Done, I'm going to edit it to just tell it is the last Gecko version as along as I finish writing this..
But, still, what I said earlier. Mostly the culprit of hangs is the rendering engine. The rendering engine isn't fully up-to-date. And the integration of the Goanna engine on K-meleon may arise errors. And it is normal. Software is "AS-IS" and even the most tiny code have bugs.
Crashes won't come from user/profile files, unless you do a big mistake on macro-language. Macro coders could tell a little about it
There is always the same dilemma, even when you think it works.......:
http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?12,149859
Software isn't free of bugs
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2021 06:50PM by JohnHell.
General discussion about K-Meleon
@admins: please stop declaring v75.1 as "last stable" on download page!
Posted by:
Voltaire
Date: July 10, 2021 01:32PM
In not only continuation, but even extension of this thread: http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?1,154148
Or in short words: it is not acceptable to declare a rev. "stable" – and even "last stable" (in general – not for only a specifig version) if surfing to some sites just makes the browser totally crash (so that you have to kill it and start it over). In the mentioned thread the problem was bound to javascript (at the site: heise.de) – but that's not all: please do not visit digitalrepublic.ch with v75.1 – or the browser v75.1 ("last stable") crashes even if javascript turned off.
the problem: all later versions are officially only "latest release fork" (and not "officially declared stable") – and "weekly updates" is totally unacceptable for a "mid to long term stable stystem for an elderly person" – specially if you have modified some of the files that reside in browser folder – and then you always have to manually check if your changes are compatible with new version or adadpt new version with your special settings.
I want to be able to recommend the best configurable browser available (what K-Meleon visibly is) with the simple recommendation: "go to the download page and download 'last stable' version – then you don't run into problems" ... that's no longer true for quite a while now.
Btw: I would appreciate if the made changes are "bug fix" (that you really should update) or "only feature enhancement" (that are useful, but not "necessary not to run into problems") ...
... no – I won't stop using KM – but it's just too much work to update weekly and even not be sure if it is "as stable to be able to be declared 'stable' (to not run into (un)known problems)"
Sorry ... and "nichts für ungut" (as we use to say in german) ...
Re: @admins: please stop declaring v75.1 as "last stable" on download page!
Posted by:
siria
Date: July 10, 2021 02:21PM
Yeah I see that as a huge prob long since too, but what do... especially, how to identify the "more" or "less" stable versions, since there are always TONS of changes, and almost all are "fixes"?
Perhaps this topic could be used for users like you to recommend the extra stable and well tested versions? And the clearly less stable ones, also based on real use testing?
Re: @admins: please stop declaring v75.1 as "last stable" on download page!
Posted by:
JohnHell
Date: July 10, 2021 03:41PM
Of course, is open to suggestions and comments but...
Appending to the above reply by siria:
Quote
siria
how to identify the "more" or "less" stable versions, since there are always TONS of changes, and almost all are "fixes"?
the following is a quote from a Personal Message sent to "db" user as a reply to a similar question (partly in regard this thread he/she opened about color/web page rendering and I vaguely mentioned about).
Quote
JohnHell
Due the current K-meleon status, that is easier to say than to accomplish.
To date, there isn't anything near to be considered as stable/tested, beyond 75.1 (which has, now, an old rendering engine) or 76.0 RC, that wasn't ended (and also had old rendering engine).
So back to the Goanna builds that are, in some way, not official in terms of the usual development track (Gecko engine), they are continuously being improved with engine updates (despite still old).
The nearest concept of stable for those builds could be the latest download of the 76.3.x branch. And not because it couldn't have errors, or the engine is updated, because just a major versioning difference.
Without forgetting that K-meleon itself is a shell (with its differentiating features from other browsers, macro language, for example) and the shell isn't under real development.
What could be considered unstable versions are just rendering updates while roytam manages to adapt Goanna engine (that is actually a Gecko fork) to K-meleon and, so, updating the engine.
After all is the same that is actually happening to major browsers with that continuously publishing of new versions (they haven't reached those versioning numbers by fun, but to demonstrate they could be more up to date with the monster they created with the Web living standard). Despite, for example, Firefox could have ESR, we don't have such here, except the versioning told above and with the same issues (old rendering, but them quite more updated).
Have also in mind that "beginners" would search for a browser capable to render sites. Sadly, to date, there is no other way than using the latest. Without forgetting that updates aren't over K-meleon, but over the engine. K-meleon itself is quite stable (76.xx.yy), what isn't is the engine (76.xx.yy).
So, what is actually stable, or expected, or the best that could work? The latest Goanna build.
There would be more to tell about this, but I think I already wrote a very loooooong private message
When I told there that the unstable module of the browser is the engine, is because of some incompatibilities may arise when integrating with K-meleon and/or web standards compatibility of that engine version, that may lead to crashes.
Back to your comment:
Quote
Voltaire
"weekly updates" is totally unacceptable for a "mid to long term stable stystem for an elderly person" – specially if you have modified some of the files that reside in browser folder – and then you always have to manually check if your changes are compatible with new version or adadpt new version with your special settings.
I don't get what you meant here.
Except for preferences, engine preferences (not those starting by kmeleon.), there shouldn't be any incompatibility between personal configurations and engine updates, that is what updates actually are, so shouldn't break any system.
Could you give an example?
If the latest fork crash is because of the integration of engine+shell, not because of your profile folders. Or shouldn't.
What I'm trying to say with all the above, after all, is that we can't say that THIS is the version to use.
Is awesome you recommend K-meleon, but, personally, at least, can't recommend which version should be recommended to novels. I simply can't recommend one, but the latest and I'm not using it... My K-meleon use is its features (available to "my" version), not its engine.
And so, the latest (Goanna fork/build) is at the top of the Download page.
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2021 03:56PM by JohnHell.
Re: @admins: please stop declaring v75.1 as "last stable" on download page!
Posted by:
Voltaire
Date: July 10, 2021 11:28PM
... I assume you remember this thread:
http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?1,154145,154145#msg-154145
... and maybe also this one:
http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?1,155086,155086#msg-155086
... and another one:
http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?1,140470,140470#msg-140470
So far I have four files that I have to alter or replace:
\browser\defaults\settings\accel.cfg
\browser\defaults\settings\toolbars.cfg
\macros\main.kmm
\macros\zoom.kmm
... and one to add:
\macros\OpenAsURLx5.kmm
=> to get the right click url handling
open in the same tab
open in a new tab
open in a new window
open in a background tab
open in a background window
... plus to adapt the search engines by right click ...
=> to get the direct search by selecting word
google 100
duckduckgo
4x WP search (de/en/fr/it)
4x WP direct (de/en/fr/it)
8x leo.org (de/en/fr/it/es/pt/ru/...)
YouTube
... and some others ...
always a bunch of work to check or alter ... and add search engines – or tell me what's the config file for that
Something more: in the meantime it is absolutely normal (at least for me) to have several browsers in use – parallely and at the same time: °1: a simple browser for mostly text pages without scripting (and I don't mind if the page is not correct) – and as there is no scripting it is also useful for unknown sites (that's KM); °2 if the page does not load correctly SRWare Iron is used (youtube is such a case) °3 but not all pages load correctly (formulas in WP show the same raw syntax in Iron as in KM); and in such a case yandex browser and opera come tu use – and if all else failes (what can happen sometimes) there is still firefox (but not for eveyday use) ... so for everyday use KM is OK – except that it should not crash and need to be manually killed (what happens with 75.1) – but it really should not be that the "last stable" version crashes in that way ... that's why I complain about "last stable still being 75.1" ...
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2021 12:43PM by Voltaire.
Re: @admins: please stop declaring v75.1 as "last stable" on download page!
Posted by:
siria
Date: July 11, 2021 02:44AM
Good info, thanks. And what a hassle, sigh...
Regarding your customizations, to reduce the hassle, if you only use one profile anyway, you could put your customized files into the profile folder.
The macros into a new subfolder /macros/ (from main.kmm I'd take only the changed modules, and rename the file)
OpenAsURLx5.kmm should be included as native macro anyway as far as I'm concerned, but oh well.
The zoom.kmm is tiny enough, perhaps just copy it over as is, and rename a bit, only the file itself.
The accel.cfg in profile is only meant to contain the few customized shortcuts, but in the past there was an old bug with certain keys or functions not working from profile.... would just try and see...
Aren't the customized search engines stored in profile folder automatically too??
Regarding toolbars.cfg, IMO a bad idea to change the main template, much better method is to create a new own skin folder (can be almost empty) and put the modified toolbars.cfg copy inside. If not enough to work (?), it needs also a copy of the skins/defaults/skin.CFG. The file structure would be (profilename)/skins/mycustomskin/toolbars.cfg + skin.cfg
Re: @admins: please stop declaring v75.1 as "last stable" on download page!
Posted by:
JohnHell
Date: July 11, 2021 06:02PM
Quote
Voltaire
... I assume you remember this thread:
http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?1,154145,154145#msg-154145
No, I can't and don't need to remember all threads
The back key can be done on profile files as told in that thread. Didn't test back then. Did test now. Works.
Default combo keys can be override in the ways I told.
No mess on main K-meleon files needed.
Quote
siria
The accel.cfg in profile is only meant to contain the few customized shortcuts, but in the past there was an old bug with certain keys or functions not working from profile.... would just try and see...
Even those on setaccel can be overridden.
That was with menus, through menus.cfg, and in the end there wasn't a total limitation or was fixed on later versions. I would search in which thread was told but I don't have the time to search for it now. I know I joined the conversation, so some post I made had the answer.
Quote
Voltaire
... and maybe also this one:
http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?1,155086,155086#msg-155086
No, I don't remember either.
But, again, there is no need to mess with main files, just append to a menu your own entries. You could even delete those you don't like through setmenu command.
Obviously requires a little interest in macro language to accomplish. It is unavoidable if you use K-meleon.
Quote
Voltaire
... and another one:
http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?1,140470,140470#msg-140470
No, I can't remember everything, and less 5 years ago. They already gave you a user-side solution.
Again, no mess with K-meleon main files, even though I'm quick reading all threads examples you gave.
Quote
Voltaire
So far I have four files that I have to alter or replace:
\browser\defaults\settings\accel.cfg
\browser\defaults\settings\toolbars.cfg
\macros\main.kmm
\macros\zoom.kmm
... and one to add:
\macros\OpenAsURLx5.kmm
=> to get the right click url handling
open in the same tab
open in a new tab
open in a new window
open in a background tab
open in a background window
... plus to adapt the search engines by right click ...
=> to get the direct search by selecting word
google 100
duckduckgo
4x WP search (de/en/fr/it)
4x WP direct (de/en/fr/it)
8x leo.org (de/en/fr/it/es/pt/ru/...)
YouTube
... and some others ...
always a bunch of work to check or alter ... and add search engines – or tell me what's the config file for that
I'm not going to agree or disagree, less with search engines because I don't use them (have my own personal macro solution that fits my needs), but I will you route to the home page of K-meleon and its main "Title":
K-Meleon - The Browser You Control
In other words, if you need features, if you don't like the behaviour, you can change it. Usually, mostly, 99%, without involving K-meleon root folders and files.
It is normal. If you see my monster profile of 16 years old using K-meleon, what would you think of those little changes? I still remember when 0.x versions weren't strict with macrolanguage and I had to fix dozens of macro files when I switched to 1.x. THAT was a hassle
Quote
Voltaire
[browers usage]
... so for everyday use KM is OK – except that it should not crash and need to be manually killed (what happens with 75.1) – but it really should not be that the "last stable" version crashes in that way ... that's why I complain about "last stable still being 75.1" ...
Done, I'm going to edit it to just tell it is the last Gecko version as along as I finish writing this..
But, still, what I said earlier. Mostly the culprit of hangs is the rendering engine. The rendering engine isn't fully up-to-date. And the integration of the Goanna engine on K-meleon may arise errors. And it is normal. Software is "AS-IS" and even the most tiny code have bugs.
Crashes won't come from user/profile files, unless you do a big mistake on macro-language. Macro coders could tell a little about it
There is always the same dilemma, even when you think it works.......:
http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?12,149859
Software isn't free of bugs
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2021 06:50PM by JohnHell.
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