General :
K-Meleon Web Browser Forum
I am looking for a browser more lightweight than firefox (on a x64 cpu running win 8.1), prompting me to try out k-meleon due to supposed potential regarding such as well as customization. In short, after testing I found that at default settings (aside from UI-related ones), KM, while more effectively managing RAM, does not seem to use less RAM overall, albeit with less tedium than required to achieve the lower minimum attainable for me with FF (neccesary periodic flushing of memory in about:memory due to higher passive leakage). Is this the result of differing architectures and OS, have things changed since Goanna (using latest build from thread), are there certain aspects I need to configure, or has this always been the case?
Also, my testing prompted two questions:
Nevermind the above measurement comparison. While doing my testing I switched Task Managers view setting to "Group by type", however almost all of FF's RAM usage is contained under the background processes listing despite that setting; meanwhile I don't see any equivalent background processes for KM. Under "Apps" FF displayed 300-400, however, ending the task freed up 1.2gb lol. Anyhow, curiosity regarding my questions above still remain regardless.
The best who can answer this, as a developer, is roytam.
K-meleon always had better memory management because of its interface. That is a memory hog on Firefox.
But isn't less true that as more elements are on a webpage, more memory is needed. And newer engines eat more RAM too.
That plus several megabytes scripts CSS stylesheet, images, data-images, svg, fonts, etc... The story talks by itself.
K-meleon tends to be steady on memory usage, but that is not always true. For example, when using DeviantArt I end up with several hundreds of megabytes. It is unavoidable. Firefox, K-meleon, more media, more scripts...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2023 05:49PM by JohnHell.
Does that imply Goanna eats more RAM too but is more capable, or no?
Also, I suppose I'll use this thread to ask more questions that aren't neccessarily related to the original topic matter. I suppose this could be more befitting in it's own thread somewhere else, but I don't know where it would go or what it's topic would be considering the following questions have no specific topic.
Any newer engine would eat more RAM.
If by capable you mean performance, in the end it depends on your installed RAM. The more RAM you have, the less the operating system swaps and better performance.
Control RAM usage result on visiting newer sites or say that Goanna engine would perform better or worse, more capable or less, is like bet.
There is no real answer yes or no. At least from me.
From the Preferences panel.
That is the default macro sendto.kmm and any command that appears there is being attached by another macro (ie.kmm among any other).
AFAIK, as I don't use the feature (my installation is quite customized to my needs), there isn't any other control of the feature, and you need macro language knowledge to edit or create macros.
There are threads in the forum asking for the same so you may find examples and or already created macros or code to append to a new .kmm file.
If by chance you mean YouTube, youtube doesn't obey almost anything, but it offers an option to disable it too (if you have an account, allow cookies, etc).
That preference, AFAIK, only works with video and audio html tags, but I'm afraid not with those offered by YouTube, or any other media site I will extend...
What I mean, is that it works with, for example, the Wikipedia embedded media, but not with other types of embedded media. To give you a real life example.
http://kb.mozillazine.org/Browser.sessionhistory.max_total_viewers
Those are preferences to control the engine. By chance there is a brief explanation here, but I don't have a clue:
http://kmeleonbrowser.org/wiki/UserJS
exec macro command executes program files, not code. Example:
That opens notepad with blablabla.txt as parameter.
To understand macro language refer to the Documentation on this site (left panel of the forum).
I'm of those aliens that don't use tabs
so no clue.
I remember some exists, but you'll have to search the forum, or the macro library from the same Documentation pages told above.
Currently the in-development build is that in roytam's Goanna thread, so better you post there or it will be missed BUT have in mind that the Goanna engine build is K-meleon embedding the Goanna engine, a previous version than the current used by PaleMoon, so, if it doesn't work, it likely won't work soon or even ever. It depends on the updates of the engine by roytam. Might be fixed or might be not on newer releases. Is not K-meleon fault, as K-meleon is mainly a shell, but the engine embedded, and it is embedded that one that "allows it".
Sorry if I haven't been of much help.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2023 11:38PM by JohnHell.
Reading both of you
But..
I wonder you don't use tabs? really?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2023 02:52PM by WasiFH.
On K-meleon, no.
On occasional secondary browsers, yes, because it doesn't worth the hassle of configure it differently for a couple of pages, but I'm not fan of it at all.
General discussion about K-Meleon
Questions regarding potential lowering of resource consumption and causes thereto
Posted by:
Kalle Melos
Date: January 28, 2023 05:05AM
I am looking for a browser more lightweight than firefox (on a x64 cpu running win 8.1), prompting me to try out k-meleon due to supposed potential regarding such as well as customization. In short, after testing I found that at default settings (aside from UI-related ones), KM, while more effectively managing RAM, does not seem to use less RAM overall, albeit with less tedium than required to achieve the lower minimum attainable for me with FF (neccesary periodic flushing of memory in about:memory due to higher passive leakage). Is this the result of differing architectures and OS, have things changed since Goanna (using latest build from thread), are there certain aspects I need to configure, or has this always been the case?
Also, my testing prompted two questions:
- I noticed while testing when loading the same videos on both that FF loads relatively little into memory initially and gradually adds more as the video goes on. KM instead loads a higher amount of memory upon a page's loading however stays around that value (both below and above it) throughout the duration of the video, only increasing slightly by a small amount temporarily while seeking. This might result in lower ram usage at most lengths while higher at others, though it did cause issues with a large video that I tested after noting this behaviour (3 hours+ 720) peaking at 10x more cpu usage(800mhz!). What is KM doing here to get it's initial ram value upon page load and how does this differ with FF?
- I notice that when flushing memory in about:memory, that KM hardly disposes of any. Does this imply that KM is in a state (i.e same basic capabilities) more similar to FF before flushing it's RAM or after such?
Re: Questions regarding potential lowering of resource consumption and causes thereto
Posted by:
Kalle Melos
Date: January 28, 2023 06:10AM
Nevermind the above measurement comparison. While doing my testing I switched Task Managers view setting to "Group by type", however almost all of FF's RAM usage is contained under the background processes listing despite that setting; meanwhile I don't see any equivalent background processes for KM. Under "Apps" FF displayed 300-400, however, ending the task freed up 1.2gb lol. Anyhow, curiosity regarding my questions above still remain regardless.
Re: Questions regarding potential lowering of resource consumption and causes thereto
Posted by:
JohnHell
Date: January 28, 2023 05:48PM
The best who can answer this, as a developer, is roytam.
K-meleon always had better memory management because of its interface. That is a memory hog on Firefox.
But isn't less true that as more elements are on a webpage, more memory is needed. And newer engines eat more RAM too.
That plus several megabytes scripts CSS stylesheet, images, data-images, svg, fonts, etc... The story talks by itself.
K-meleon tends to be steady on memory usage, but that is not always true. For example, when using DeviantArt I end up with several hundreds of megabytes. It is unavoidable. Firefox, K-meleon, more media, more scripts...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2023 05:49PM by JohnHell.
Re: Questions regarding potential lowering of resource consumption and causes thereto
Posted by:
Kalle Melos
Date: January 31, 2023 08:39PM
Does that imply Goanna eats more RAM too but is more capable, or no?
Also, I suppose I'll use this thread to ask more questions that aren't neccessarily related to the original topic matter. I suppose this could be more befitting in it's own thread somewhere else, but I don't know where it would go or what it's topic would be considering the following questions have no specific topic.
- Can i change the default behaviour of the url bar to open in new tab instead? Can I do the same with links that are clicked on?
- Where can I customize the destinations that are listed when using "Send To" in the context menus where they appear?
- Is there a setting that makes videos only load after clicking play? media.autoplay.enabled;false doesn't seem to stop them loading.
- Is KM's browser.sessionhistory.max_total_viewers equivalent to FF's browser.sessionhistory.max_entries?
- What does accessibility.mouse_focuses_formcontrol do?
- I'm not familiar with c++ or how modular code in general is but generally how plausible is it to copy/paste code used for functions in the browser itself, save it as a cpp file then utilize it in a macro via the exec command?
- Does a macro exist for selecting multiple tabs (for use with detach tab)?
- Does a macro exist for automatic link redirection of certain domains?
- What's the preferred method of reporting issues with site layouts/bugs, it seems people just post in the main thread, are there other places used?
Re: Questions regarding potential lowering of resource consumption and causes thereto
Posted by:
JohnHell
Date: January 31, 2023 11:36PM
Quote
Kalle Melos
Does that imply Goanna eats more RAM too but is more capable, or no?
Any newer engine would eat more RAM.
If by capable you mean performance, in the end it depends on your installed RAM. The more RAM you have, the less the operating system swaps and better performance.
Control RAM usage result on visiting newer sites or say that Goanna engine would perform better or worse, more capable or less, is like bet.
There is no real answer yes or no. At least from me.
Quote
Kalle Melos
Can i change the default behaviour of the url bar to open in new tab instead? Can I do the same with links that are clicked on?
From the Preferences panel.
Quote
Kalle Melos
Where can I customize the destinations that are listed when using "Send To" in the context menus where they appear?
That is the default macro sendto.kmm and any command that appears there is being attached by another macro (ie.kmm among any other).
AFAIK, as I don't use the feature (my installation is quite customized to my needs), there isn't any other control of the feature, and you need macro language knowledge to edit or create macros.
There are threads in the forum asking for the same so you may find examples and or already created macros or code to append to a new .kmm file.
Quote
Kalle Melos
Is there a setting that makes videos only load after clicking play? media.autoplay.enabled;false doesn't seem to stop them loading.
If by chance you mean YouTube, youtube doesn't obey almost anything, but it offers an option to disable it too (if you have an account, allow cookies, etc).
That preference, AFAIK, only works with video and audio html tags, but I'm afraid not with those offered by YouTube, or any other media site I will extend...
What I mean, is that it works with, for example, the Wikipedia embedded media, but not with other types of embedded media. To give you a real life example.
Quote
Kalle Melos
[*] Is KM's browser.sessionhistory.max_total_viewers equivalent to FF's browser.sessionhistory.max_entries?
http://kb.mozillazine.org/Browser.sessionhistory.max_total_viewers
Quote
Kalle Melos
What does accessibility.mouse_focuses_formcontrol do?
Those are preferences to control the engine. By chance there is a brief explanation here, but I don't have a clue:
http://kmeleonbrowser.org/wiki/UserJS
Quote
Kalle Melos
I'm not familiar with c++ or how modular code in general is but generally how plausible is it to copy/paste code used for functions in the browser itself, save it as a cpp file then utilize it in a macro via the exec command?
exec macro command executes program files, not code. Example:
exec "%windir%\notepad.exe blablabla.txt"
That opens notepad with blablabla.txt as parameter.
To understand macro language refer to the Documentation on this site (left panel of the forum).
Quote
Kalle Melos
Does a macro exist for selecting multiple tabs (for use with detach tab)?
I'm of those aliens that don't use tabs
so no clue.
Quote
Kalle Melos
Does a macro exist for automatic link redirection of certain domains?
I remember some exists, but you'll have to search the forum, or the macro library from the same Documentation pages told above.
Quote
Kalle Melos
What's the preferred method of reporting issues with site layouts/bugs, it seems people just post in the main thread, are there other places used?
Currently the in-development build is that in roytam's Goanna thread, so better you post there or it will be missed BUT have in mind that the Goanna engine build is K-meleon embedding the Goanna engine, a previous version than the current used by PaleMoon, so, if it doesn't work, it likely won't work soon or even ever. It depends on the updates of the engine by roytam. Might be fixed or might be not on newer releases. Is not K-meleon fault, as K-meleon is mainly a shell, but the engine embedded, and it is embedded that one that "allows it".
Sorry if I haven't been of much help.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2023 11:38PM by JohnHell.
Re: Questions regarding potential lowering of resource consumption and causes thereto
Posted by:
WasiFH
Date: February 02, 2023 02:50PM
Reading both of you
But..
Quote
I'm of those aliens that don't use tabs so no clue.
I wonder you don't use tabs? really?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2023 02:52PM by WasiFH.
Re: Questions regarding potential lowering of resource consumption and causes thereto
Posted by:
JohnHell
Date: February 02, 2023 09:26PM
Quote
WasiFH
Quote
JohnHell
I'm of those aliens that don't use tabs so no clue.
I wonder you don't use tabs? really?
On K-meleon, no.
On occasional secondary browsers, yes, because it doesn't worth the hassle of configure it differently for a couple of pages, but I'm not fan of it at all.
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