I have had NO crashes using the new beta! But I thought it might be a good idea to set up a place for people to post them, if/when they happen, so they are together. And if this thread doesn't get used, then "no news is good news"! :-)

I'm using K-Meleon .9beta3 with the Free download manager plugin. Each time K-Meleon tries to invoke the plugin, it coughs up this fault:

Windows 98 Version 4.10.1998
K-MELEON caused an invalid page fault in
module KERNEL32.DLL at 0177:bff87eb5.
Registers:
EAX=c0030290 CS=0177 EIP=bff87eb5 EFLGS=00010212
EBX=0316ff84 SS=017f ESP=0306ffec EBP=03070058
ECX=0307020c DS=017f ESI=816f01a4 FS=67df
EDX=bff76859 ES=017f EDI=03070234 GS=0000
Bytes at CS:EIP:
53 56 57 8b 30 83 7d 10 01 8b 4e 38 89 4d f8 75
Stack dump:

Ahem! No crashes "yet" anyway, eh Carson? -knocks on wood!- Say that very, very softly so that the "Crash Test Dummy Gremlins" don't hear you mate and then jump out of the computer and start jumping up and down on your keyboard trying to invoke a crash!

Seriously though my friend---I'm hoping this trend holds up for you! That would be great! Perhaps I should get off my duff and download it to at least give it a try on the GDI bug on Win98SE. But I've become so rattle-headed lately I'd sworn off ALL beta-testing from everywhere to make my life easier. -grr!- Still, would be nice to know if the GDI is gone. But to give up my beloved 0.8.2+?...

The pain of it all!

C'est la guerre...

Eyes-Only
"L'Peau-Rouge"

Definitely don't give up your 0.8.2+. You can keep it forever, alongside other versions of K-Meleon. I've added a new thread to show you how.

In that post, I mention the need to close your existing K-M while you are working on the new one. You'll see the warning in UPPER CASE LETTERS.

I don't see any indication that you are rattle-headed, and I study the way people think and learn. My guess is that you are simply short of confidence. That causes people to watch themselves too closely, and to be harsh critics of themselves.

You may not know it, but MOST PEOPLE in this world would NOT be able to install and run K-Meleon. There is nothing wrong with their intelligence, but they do not have the processing skills.

If that surprises you, try this one on for size: There are many people who have such trouble grasping concepts of communication that they would willingly go to a far-away land and invade another country and hurt the people who live there.

I think you have the skills to pass both these IQ tests. So, enjoy your blessings, and enjoy the many skills in which you are much better than most! Eyes-only, it is true that a computer can sustain damage that reduces its value. However, you are a human being, not a computer, and your value has never been diminished. Not one bit. You are an asset to the world. Our lives are not focused on the details of events themselves, but rather on our abilities to RESPOND to those events.

We created the word, response-able, to mean that. Its meaning has changed a bit, but our choices remain the same. I have the distinct impression you have made many brave and wise responses, my friend. :-)

Well Carson... I used to be a real wizard with a computer, one of those full-class computer "geeks" you always hear about, knowing the thing inside out, and I was a IRC chat programme programmer (phew! say that one 10x fast!) writing sub-routines for Mirc, Pirch, and Virc. Then in 15 seconds it all fell apart. The word is "stroke". And after 15 subsequent strokes I decided to quit keeping track of them anymore. Some have been major while others have been TIAs.

I basically had to "re-learn" the computer from the ground up but I never got back to where I was because with no short-term memory, and a very broken up long term memory, plus an inability to understand and follow directions properly, nothing "sticks".

But strokes are the very least of my problems. That's not for the open forum. Probably neither was this. LOL.

Oh! And I wasn't writing that for a "Gee! I'm sorry!", or sympathy, or pity (I really deteste the latter!!! It's a pet peeve!) but to let you know where I'm coming from. I actually take it all in stride as I DO live a very happy and contented life with my grandchildren. I help watch my grandson quite frequently. Umm... Je l'adore avec tout de mon coeur et il est le centre de mon univers!

Don't get me started on IQs. LOL! We could really get into a debate on that one. Basically a quantification of a person's memory capacity, ergo: The better quality of the memory the maximal the quotient. But that's just my hypothesis and hasn't been tested in the field. Leave that to the eggheads.

Anyway, the memory has become even worse over the past several months, and only occasionally now I'll have momentary "glimpses" into something which I once knew. I used to help here as much as my buddy Guenter... now I read and scratch my head. This is why I keep such a low profile now unless I get a "glimpse" like I did today about the filetypes. Otherwise I keep mum, occasionally injecting humour or offering support as a confidence booster. Same over at MZ.

There is a bed which calleth my name...

Amicalement,

Eyes-Only
"L'Peau-Rouge"

My mother used to have several transient ischemic attacks in an hour. When they were over, we'd go out to some cafe with a view, and we'd talk and have a wonderful time.

For those wondering, a transient ischemic attack, or a "passing stroke", is analogous to taking hold of your computer's main cable at the wall, yanking it right out and immediately shoving it back in again.

This instantly kills all short-term memory in person or computer. If the person was partway through a sentence, the sentence stops. The person seems to hiccup in a strange way, and then sits there smiling at you, wondering why you have that odd expression on your face. Not only is the sentence gone, but usually the person has no knowledge that his "power cord" was just removed and reconnected.

Any TIA can be deadly, but so can crossing the street. As our options decline, we have no choice but to accentuate the positive insofar as what blessings we are still able to count. Grandchildren are one form of pretty special blessing.

But life is not for winning anything. Capitalism has perverted much of the world view. The human species, perhaps 3 million years old or so, is not very bright, and seems destined to lead a short life in this paradise.

I've taught classes of people who were all serving time for murder, and I've taught classes of all high achievers. Both felt they were successes or failures according to the things they did, and their score-points. Marks to students are like money to capitalists. They totally ruin the big picture. The Zen is destroyed.

If anyone reading this wants to know whether he is powerful, or whether he has a very high IQ, I have a test for you. Do this:

-- Go downstairs to your basement workshop if you have one, or just pull up a chair at your kitchen table. Make a nice neat pile of all the equipment you need to assemble, from scratch, a living, breathing, dragonfly. Don't use any living units. You must make your dragonfly entirely from inanimate components.

-- You have one hour to build your dragonfly. Make sure he can fly, catch mosquitoes, and reproduce.

When you are finished, we will call you "intelligent".

So far, I have mainly met people who could destroy dragonflies. A lot of people think they are powerful if they can pull a trigger and wreck somebody else's life. This is not power.

But we must all learn, early or late in life, that greatness is not to be measured by IQ points or by the "external" things we do--whether they be murder or some great invention or fantastic comprehension.

What matters is who we ARE. I learned this when my own life was saved by two men who were both barely surviviving in life, and who had neither the mental nor the physical blessings I enjoyed. The story of Superman is a poor lesson.

Anybody would enjoy the sheer fun of being a computer whiz, or any other kind of expert. But, really, my high achievers were boring to teach. They came into my classes withy A+ grades, and they left with A+ grades.

I far preferred helping a C- student up to a C+.

So I pretty well stay with my original stance, Eyes-Only. You're as "good" a man now as you ever were. No one likes to lose any form of power. Absolutely everyone in the world does eventually lose every bit of their power.

I guess that's because we never owned it. It wasn't really ours. It was just on loan for us to enjoy for awhile.

I apologize for placing all this in a thread about computer crashes, but perhaps it's relevant. All this browser exists to do is to run around the world and bring back information. I suppose these paragraphs have a lot to do with the why and wherefore of what might become of that information.

My esteem for you remains where it was, Eyes-Only. Your former powers don't impress me much, nor do your losses. I regard you the way I did before: a fine person, caring and sensitive, brave and compassionate. And my very best regards go out to you, with respect.

Eyes-Only,

Know more about strokes than I care to, without having had one myself. My Father-in-Law had one that left him disabled for six years before he passed and my favorite Aunt was mysteriously managing to crash her car (3 times in 6 months) so went out to Chicago to visit and see what was up. She was pouring coffee at the table and just kept on pouring and pouring. Had no memory of what had happened. Took her in and found she had been experiencing more a few TIAs.

So, just take care of yourself, ok?

N

Thank you Carson for writing this.

Jan.

@ndebord: Will do mate---and I do! I continue to live my life as much as I can, see? When Life has thrown me a curve ball and closed one avenue I've always said, "Well, so that avenue is closed. Generally means that there is a detour sign to yet another avenue." And I hunt for it. Sure, I can't do as much as I can just a few years ago. But when the doc says, "You've got X amount of time left." I say, "Naw. I'm still getting up in the morning and going about my business. Keep your deadline. I'm too busy living, thank you!" LOL!

@Carson: I do have a deadline of 4 minutes as my grandson is here and I have to return to watching him. Loved the support! A lot to think about and ponder there. But too mate I also believe in living within certain parameters. If I can't lift 1,000lbs then I'm not going to attempt it if I'm in a hurry. If I had time then I'd figure out a fulcrum system and do it.

Okie, I HAVE to run!

Amicalement,

Eyes-Only
"L'Peau-Rouge"

Um.. er.. I need to interrupt.. In case nobody noticed, lbmixpro reported a crash; can anyone else confirm it? If nobody answers, can anyone please repost the bug report to the Bugs Forum?

Hi Carson,

Great! I got it installed, both the 0.9b3 and my Wechselbalg Build. I think I reported in the other thread how Wechselbalg installed? 0.9b3 did the same. However, because of them doing such---so far---they see each other as totally independent KM Builds and neither is interferring with the other, nor are they needing the profile manager such as is the case with Firefox/Mozilla Suite. I found that quite interesting. And yes, I made it a definite point to check my two pref.js just to make sure they weren't being overwritten or plugins feeding off one another, etc., and such is not the case as it was before. Bravo! So thanks for your help!

@rmn: I have no idea what the bug is that lbmixpro is speaking of, unfortunately. But if I do remember right, it was either you, or ra who wanted me to test the 0.9b builds, since I run Windows 98SE, to see if the GDI Cache bug (I think Bugzilla #315?) had been fixed in 0.9b3?

Well, here's my report: I went to NASA, where I usually go and can crash KM normally in about 5 minutes or less. I was able to surf for 30 minutes and download photos up to 2megs in size. I was very impressed to say the least!

There was, towards the end of my 30 minute testing period, when I downloaded an image of 2megs and I started getting lines, just like before. However: When I hit "reload" the image snapped-to instantly. In KMs of the past this did NOT work. At NO time did the browser slow down, bog down, or give the impression that it was going to crash.

Now I'd hate to say, "Close the bug." on just MY 30 minute testing. Yet in my testing keep in mind that I'm on a t2 network line---wide-open to the net, and my settings on the browser are to take info wide-open and just as fast as possible, and I really put this through some moves as far as images go. Even the Suite will give me lines in images now and then---and that's the patched version. So more than likely with 0.9 and the regular to high user #315 shouldn't bother them on 95/98SE with cable or standard DSL connections.

My "big test" would be on a day (usually a Friday which I have completely to myself) when I can spend unhindered at the computer for 14 hours---4 or 5 of those hours in intense image research at NASA. That kills about every browser. The Suite doesn't crash but she does get the occasional lines and she groans, "Have a heart man!" LOL!

Hope this helped?

Amicalement,

Eyes-Only
"L'Peau-Rouge"

NO CRASHES HERE..........on my "stand-alone" XP Pro,Sp-2 PC!!

Be well...........

Mike

Okie, I don't know who is handling the GDI Cache bug, which as I stated above I think is #315, but they can pronounce it closed for Windows 98SE. It has been a thorn in my side with K-Meleon ever since I've used the browser and driven me nuts. I've just come back from three hours of ultra-intensive image downloads and the browser never even burped or hiccupped!

Please add a comment to bug 315.

Okie, I don't know who is handling the GDI Cache bug, which as I stated above I think is #315, but they can pronounce it closed for Windows 98SE. It has been a thorn in my side with K-Meleon ever since I've used the browser and driven me nuts. I've just come back from three hours of ultra-intensive image downloads and the browser never even burped or hiccupped!

Congrats to the Devs for bringing the patch over from Mozilla!

Now if the browser just came in French to match with my T-Bird... hehe. >

Amicalement,

Eyes-Only
"L'Peau-Rouge"

Hi ra,

Not sure how bugzilla is handled here but if it's anything like its cousin then you need an account, right? I don't have an account and it would seem rather "foolish" for me to register (sorry, but it's how I feel) just for one bug.

I've downloaded 0.9b3. I broke my personal vow about no more beta testing to see if the bug was dead because it seemed like no one else was going to test it. With Carson's help and my pondering I figure how to install without wiping out my Wechselbalg. Reported to the devlist and reported here. So I'd appreciate it if someone could take it just the one step further for bugzilla who has an account.

And after being unable to crash this silly browser for the past 8 hours... I'm tired. I'm crashing instead. LOL!

Amicalement / In friendship,

Eyes-Only
"L'Peau-Rouge"

Eyes-Only,

I'm talking about K-Meleon's own BugTrackingSystem here, not Bugzilla: http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/bugs/viewbug.php?bugid=315

Could you please have a look at beta 2 as well? If you still see the bug with beta 2 I think I know what the fix has been. Yeah, it's beta-testing, but I think that would help a lot. :-)

After that I'll make sure to add your comment(s) to bug 315, no problem.

I think the crash problem I had in the other builds was likely the same thing.

Eyes-Only uses a fast, powerful system, and he tested it with huge NASA files. He reports that the other builds crashed, but this one does not.

I use a much weaker computer on ordinary ADSL. I test it with periods of fast browsing. All the other builds crashed, but this one does not.

Something very important has been fixed. I am making a guess that it was one and the same problem.

Congratulations to you invisible, silent people who work so hard to bring us the best browser in the world. Your brilliant work and dedication are very much appreciated.

(If everyone in the world gave whatever he could, like you guys do, we'd all have food on the table, and the whole world would be a paradise. That is all that it takes. I'm beginning to think the way to do it is to give away the thing we do the best, whatever it is. :-) This browser is a wonderful example.)

Hi Ra,

Sorry if I sounded kind of "testy" in my post above. I shouldn't have been. After all, being "testy" like that is like looking a free gift horse in the mouth. I apologise. I hope you do understand though where I'm coming from and I wished sometimes I could say things on open forum so people would know why I'm the way I am, but they would more than likely misconstrue it as a man looking for a "pity party" when that in fact is the furthest from the case! Pity, in fact, is my #1 pet peeve. Understanding? Yes. That's a different story completely. And I think Carson would agree on that one. This is why in the thread "Where in the world are we?" I posted my website after my nicks---in hopes that people would go to see ME. Then maybe they'd have a better understanding. And even then the picture there is quite rosey at best.

Still, that's no excuse for my behaviour. Using one's health as an excuse for their untoward behaviour is a crutch.

Now to business: Though Carson doesn't have Win98SE, to the best of my knowledge anyway since my memory is poor and I didn't read back, I think you'll find that he's put these betas through their moves. If beta2 crashed on him then more than likely, from what I've read of his crash reports here in the forum, he was experiencing the GDI cache crash. He must have really filled up that cache on whatever OS he's on because after 98SE the cache is quite substantial. That was MS's "brilliant" solution to the problem---throw more cache space to it like they throw more money at things in hopes that it'll go away. LOL!

I must not be looking in the right place (granted, my vision is bad) but if you post a link to beta2 I'll try and give it a run for you but I make no promises my friend how quickly I can get to it. My illness has gotten into my back now and it damaged the vertebrae between the spine and the hip just recently. I leave it at that. But if I get to install and run it I'll give you a report, okie?

Thanks for bearing up with me, the grump.

Amicalement,

Eyes-Only
"L'Peau-Rouge"
http://eyesonly.no-ip.info/jimmymac/

Eyes-Only,

I don't think you sounded "testy".

Please try http://ftp.pconline.com.cn/pub/download/200410/kmeleon09b2.exe. Take your time, no reason to rush.

Thanks Ra! Got it downloaded and now it's waiting to be installed. May do that after I go make another pot of java.

Merci Mille Fois!

Eyes-Only
"L'Peau-Rouge"
http://eyesonly.no-ip.info/jimmymac/

Okie Ra, here's the results: After just a few minutes of browsing and downloading megabyte image files bug #315 rears its ugly head and down comes the browser (0.9b2) like a house of cards---regular as clockwork each and every time! And yet 0.9b3 is impervious to it and I can surf, as you saw back along, for 8 hours and not bring it down, placing the most unheard of demands upon it.

Now you said that you wanted me to test this and if 0.9b2 crashed whereas 0.9b3 doesn't---then it would tell you exactly what it was that you did that changed it so it wouldn't.

Care to share with the rest of us?

I've always been thinking that it's the GDI patch has somehow being deleted out of one of the files when the chrome is being pared down of unnecessary files to make the browser smaller. Am I right, or all wet behind the ears?

À bientôt,

Eyes-Only
"L'Peau-Rouge"

I'm pretty sure that the GDI patch was in the "core" code for K-Meleon, not from the chrome packages. But maybe Ra can shed some light on what all was fixed. Glad to hear that it's working in any case.

The image cut and paste bug is still here in beta 3 Cason and I can crash KM easily. Just highlight an image on a web page and Ctrl-C copy it to the clipboard. Then close the image window and KM crashes.

Got it. I added the bug to the list here:

http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?f=3&i=6149&t=6149

Thank you for testing Eyes-Only!

Now you said that you wanted me to test this and if 0.9b2 crashed whereas 0.9b3 doesn't---then it would tell you exactly what it was that you did that changed it so it wouldn't.

Care to share with the rest of us?

K-Meleon's *gecko* part is exactly the same in beta 2 and beta 3 (compare the files and built dates, nothing has been *changed* - but be careful with summer/winter time if you are living in a time zone that switches between those two <g> - or visit <http://network-tools.com/analyze>).

Bug #315 is only about gecko stuff, so it is very unlikely that it is responsible if beta 3 behaves nice and beta 2 doesn't.

But I'm pretty sure that http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/bugs/viewbug.php?bugid=715 can be and in fact is/was responsible for the GDI-related crashes you saw. This major GDI leak (see #715 for details, it has been around for some time now) has been fixed in K-M's "core" code.

So, thanks again for testing and confirming. :-)

Added the promised comment to bug 315.

Hi Ra!

Thanks ever so much! And I see now about the other GDI bug to which you refer and agree. But of course---what do I know? I lost all of my programming abilities a few years ago when I had my stroke and can't regain them. LOL! Oh well. Oh yeah... and I don't think it was C or C++ that I knew, but Delphi? Or a branch of it that's used in the chat programme Mirc. And then the chat programme Virc used VBS, or a slight variant of that. Each one of the major chat programmes used a variant of the main language at that time. But that's neither here nor there ATM.

Gee... in all of my testing though I didn't see the bookmark bug come up. However: The other day when I rebooted my system, something I do from the ground up about every 4 or 5 days to flush the entire system (not that I have to on Aston but it's a hold-over from my days on Windows Explorer.exe), the system didn't seem to "reboot in sequence". That's about the only way I can explain it. When I went to use KM then I had problems with the bookmarks not appearing in the second layer. I didn't take it as a bug but as a fluke ONLY, because T-Bird didn't work exactly right either, nor did Firefox. So I did another quick restart (and not a reboot from the ground up), and the bookmarks haven't bothered since (nor the other problems). So I don't think it was that bug. But just thought I'd mention it. Has anyone worked on the bookmark coding? They must have because it now sorts bookmarks whereas seems so before it had a bug where it didn't.

The one plugin I have changed, however, is that I've replaced the standard guestures.dll with Romanito's guestures.dll. Reason for that is because it has the rocker buttons. With my MS getting worse left and right hand motions don't always end up as such---but I still have control of the fingers for forward/back.

One slight bug I have noticed which hasn't affected the operation of KM one iota: When opening up another link in another layer (middle button click) and then closing them and coming back to the original layer, it shows---in Aston, as that system shows inactive in italics---KM to be inactive despite the fact that I'm browsing, or even typing this now... It's showing KM on my taskbar as being inactive. I was wondering if anyone else has seen this as well? But like I said: It doesn't affect the use of the browser at all.

And now you see why I don't file bug reports. #1: I really don't find them per se. #2: When I do find one I'm as confusing as hell trying to describe the bugger. LOL! þ

Thanks again Ra! Happy K-Meleoning!

Eyes-Only
"L'Peau-Rouge"
http://eyesonly.no-ip.info/jimmymac/

In Chinese, with 90% question marks?

B3 on Windows ME crash:

K-MELEON caused an invalid page fault in
module WEBBRWSR.DLL at 0187:616d7284.
Registers:
EAX=00000000 CS=0187 EIP=616d7284 EFLGS=00010246
EBX=00000000 SS=018f ESP=0065e404 EBP=0065e574
ECX=0065e550 DS=018f ESI=61d7cfcf FS=3187
EDX=0065e550 ES=018f EDI=61d7d001 GS=0000
Bytes at CS:EIP:
8b 08 ff 51 38 8b 3d ec 80 6d 61 68 d0 8b 6d 61
Stack dump:
00000000 0065e550 61d7d001 61d7cfcf 00000000 0000001c 0065e454 8bc69e48 00000001 00000000 00000000 00000000 0065e464 00b763ed 0b57d6f0 00b763ed

Your program could bery easily be the best, but at this point it is USELESS for the following reasons, & I have de-installed it. First, after browsing a while it causes 'Explorer' (Windows file explorer) to have a 'stack dump' error when right clicking. This is the fault of YOUR program, not theirs. It does no such thing when using Opera, IE, or Mozilla for DAYS on end - though those programs may fault after a while & need to be re-opened, it doesn't at least fuk up OTHER programs! OK the next thing is you should have a button to disable GIF animation - it eats CPU resources like crazy all the animated crap in pages running in the background - especially with many tabs open. Opera is great in that it's EARLIER version 7.something had a nice button for that. Here I'll open it now... Opera Version 7.23. I have tried later versions of Opera. They suck. They do crazy stuff like REMOVE functionality, & make it less powerful - like adding that stupid 'X' in every damn tab instead of a master 'X'. Opera also doesn't display pages properly like yours does.

OK I don't wanna' confuse U guys. Let me make a quick list here - this is what you HAVE to do:

- Keep your effing program from causing 'stack dump' in the Windows Explorer shell.

OK these are optional things that would make your program better than Opera - as of yet Opera is better & I have de-installed yours:

- Gif animation disable button (along with the image disable button, etc.)
- move the 'new tab' thing to the LEFT side, where the forward/back & other stuff is (way more convenient - & yes I know U can use a mouse gesture 4 this - but it's silly-ass having the 'new tab' button way off 2 the side)

OK lastly is a 'wish list':

Use an Explorer-like favorites interface. IE is by far the biggest load of junk on the planet, but one place where they eat everyone else for breakfast is the simple intuitive favorites interface. Management & adding is all handled in the list itself, with simple 'right click' type actions. It is utterly ABSURD that no other browser does this!!! EFFING INSANE!!! What R U people using 4 brains??? Netscape favorites 'management' is the most back-asswards junk I have ever seen. When I like a site, I literally open IE & save it there - so it will B easy 2 place & manage. I ue IE 4 favorites generation & recall because EVERY other browser is CRAP in this ragard - including yours. Make it like IE favorites management!!!

Hmmm, N E other gripes? Well, if somebody types in something to the addy bar that is not a web site address, it should AUTOMATICALLY search it in the users search engine of choice, google, etc. This would save having 2 move over & hit a button.

All kidding & rants asside, your program is JUNK as is - because it DOES NOT FUNCION! It is HAZZARDOUS TO MACHINES - causing 'stack dump' in the Explorer shell after a while. No it's not Micro$hit's fault - unless U wanna release a kernel with Micro$abotage's purposely cripling B.S. REMOVED, then make it work TOGETHER WITH IT - make it PLAY NICE with it. Don't make it effing 'stack dump'. This is RARE and YOUR FAULT.

If U wanna do the world some real good really what would B nice is a FILE EXPLORER interface with TABBED BROWSING - not 2 mess with it 2 much - keep an Explorer like interface, but make it also able 2 manage files, & also perform in the 'save' functions of ALL programs - with 'favorite folders' etc Now THAT would B nice!

Oh another gripe - when saving files, your program makes the 'save dialog' box always appear way up the hell in the left top corner. WTF? On big monitors, quite annoying! & what if I am off in monitor #3 someplace? I have 2 scroll over 2 your silly box that doesn't remember where your program window is. Make it open up on top of the same program window that is ALREADY OPEN - U know, like JUST ABOUT EVERY PROGRAM OUT THERE already does - nice

Nice work guys - but it's not functional yet. Good luck with that. It strikes me as odd that people will spend all kinds of time making something for free, yet still half assed. What's the point of trying if it's going 2 B half assed, causing 'stack dump' and not letting U disable GIF animation? WTF? May as well use IE then! HAHA - sorry guys, but until U fix these issues, even Mozilla kicks your ass - & opera, hands down. However, the new Opera is a joke - 7.23 is nice. At least none of them crash the effing WINDOWS SHELL!!!!!!!!!