Internet Explorer has a lot of good features & you can't dispute it's flexability with Javascript & DHTML. Still, sometimes it does thing that make me want to tie up the development team & interrogate them, just to make them own up to the idiocy.

There's an "easter egg" in IE that allows the user to see the list of names for everyone allegedly responsible for it. The list appears to be several hundred names in a flashy list with annoying little reminders that it'll be over soon. Some of you may have seen this. It looks like a waste of disk space to me, but that's not what I'm here to complain about today. It sure would take a lot of rope to tie up all those guys, though.

I haven't used IE in several months now -- at all; not since it stopped working & took my Windows Explorer down with it, including my ability to open folders. Now really, I don't know if it was IE, or if it was Winows, Explorer or some random program that spoiled my registry, either way I can't open Explorer, IE or any folders on my machine & I've been working around the inconvenience ever since. This still isn't why I'm complaining right now.

What really bothers me is the fact that my paltry 2gig hard drive recently got so packed, again, that running a few applications or opening a few images would result in memory related errors. In an effort to weasel out just a few more megs of stuff I could sacrifice, I went sniffing around in the old Temporary Internet Files & deleted everything that was obviously nothing but garbage. I ended up regaining about 75 megs, which to me is a huge deal. I feel like I took a 150 pound poop. Now here's the problem: I had to delete those files manually, clicking the Internet Options buttons that are supposed to clear out the Temporary Internet Files had no effect on anything in the directory. The same is true of my History folder. Clicking the "Clear History" button in the Internet Options dialog does NOTHING to the TWELVE MEGABYTE History folder. 12 megs seems insane to me for what's essentially in involuntarily stored list of URLs.

Does anyone here have an excuse for the IE team? K-Meleon doesn't seem to do any of this. I can't find any easy way to clear K-Meleon's history, but it at least it doesn't decieve me with pointless dialogs & buttons. Plus, K-Meleon provides a very handy "Accept only site cookies" option, which I adore. What's more, I've actually watched the files pour out of K-Meleon's internet cache when I click the button to do so.

I don't know if I'll ever go back to IE after knowing what I know. There's a lot of features that just aren't available in other browsers, & God knows you can't even render a page at microsoft.com with anything else (can you?), but I don't know if the few extra features & market dominance are worth it with all the hassles & idiotic flaws. Like a lot of you here, I like the simple interface in IE that's flexible & easy to customize, & that's what's so great about K-Meleon. It has the simplicity & effecient layout without the lethal bugs of a Microsoft program.

Now... does anyone here know if I'll suffer any miserable consequences as a result of manually deleting the entire contents of my History folder? I can't see how it would effect anything since I don't use IE anymore, but the way it's integrated into Windows, you never really know...

they are cheap.

So I've heard. Installing it would be the big problem, I've never done that before. What's more, I could really use a whole new system, this one was just a starter.

I know that I miss some features of IE sometimes...


the ability of low-life scum to use a buffer overflow to set a clients webpage to http://~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ultraporn.com, the ability of low-life scum to use another exploit to install gator on my machine without asking me, the ability of low life scum to add http://www.hotgayporn.com to my bookmarks...

I mean, what is life without low-life scum taking advantage of me? I feel so alone, with my secure, stable, quick web browser.

I also miss the helpful hard disk clattering which accompanies web pages loading on my p500 with 32 megabytes of ram.

I also miss how I can no longer download plugins for my aunts 486/66 running IE5, unless I install Windows 98 and ruin her machine.

sorry, being sarcastic... It's hard NOT to be sarcastic when you see the real-life impact of IE bugs affect people you know.

i've long since evacuated (to oblivion) the contents of my windows\history folder, and haven't been struck by a bolt of ugly sky-blue lightning or anything, for whatever that's worth...

SJ Zero, I never even thought about all that, you're right.

& po, That's good enough for me, thanks.

then dont go to porn and warez sites, SJ zero................... (.....)

I need IE, because the super user-friendly Citibank Online Banking can ONLY be accessed with IE... great, huh?

but my default browser is Mozilla, because I was tired of hearing false promises here on this forum again and again... "Just 2 more bugs, then it'll be released"... that's what they told us months ago, the 2 bugs are already fixed for ages, but the new version is still not released... almost as user-friendly as Citibank

WARNING - every one who complains about false promises - get out of that glass house before you suffer terminal lacerations! (Unless you are perfect, and have total control over your life, like the rest of us godlike beings)
As for IE-bashing... the poor child can't help being what it is, just look at the whole monopolistic family. Consider how every new version of Windwoes seems to require a complete hardware upgrade. Rich backs get scratched best.
Bash away, I love the blood.

the ability of low-life scum to use a buffer overflow to set a clients webpage to http://~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ultraporn.com, the ability of low-life scum to use another exploit to install gator on my machine without asking me, the ability of low life scum to add http://www.hotgayporn.com to my bookmarks...

This is the first confirmation of this I've seen. A couple of months ago my wife found a pornsite in her bookmarks. It is easy enough to hit a porn site by mistake (eg without thinking about the porn interpretation, do a search for pussy cat and you'll get a whack of them) but no one who uses this PC is likely to actually bookmark them. I told her it was probably a virus/worm/"phone home" type of bug but when I asked around nobody had heard of any such thing. Since then I've found another three in my bookmarks file (we use Netscape 4.7 with multiple profiles). We don't use IE but it is installed and from time to time some files open by default in it.

My firewall and virus checkers haven't found anything on this.

>>Consider how every new version of Windwoes seems to require a complete hardware upgrade.<<

Windows XP Pro runs just fine on my 550Mhz P3 which I bought a couple years ago with a copy of Win98SE ;]

but anyway, what do you expect? that's how things go.. Look at Apple, they are even worse with their Macs...

The bottom line is there is NO alternative browser or OS for day to day ordinary use that can replace IE or windows. I work in a hospital and majority of the medical equipment here are using windows based software. Now these medical equipment manufacturers(Siemens,GE,HP,etc) will not risk there reputation and the possible effect on patient care if they don't trust MS windows.

You can rant and bash IE or windows all day and night but until somebody comes up with an alternative then windows and IE is here to stay!

I only use my IE in those situations where no other application works. Or when I want the graphics engine to render the pages correctly. Or when I don't care much for annoying bugs.

In the rest of the cases I used to favor K-Meleon... but I have basically stopped using it.It is a nice little toy with some nice little features. It would have been a serious contender to IE, but software -like everything else- has a useful shelf-life. It has been a looong time since KM made a release. Now it is hopelessly obsolete (as well as buggy al hell).

Want an alternative to IE? Try Mozilla. It is nice, efficient, is loaded with security features and unlike aging KM it has the latest graphics engine. It is public licensed and.... it works!!!

Oh, the Mozilla page is:

http://mozilla.org

bongski, Like I said above, I never use IE anymore. I couldn't even if -- for whatever bizarre reason - I actually wanted to. "Trusting" any Microsoft product is foolish. They all crash, they all lose data & they're all the MOST insecure of any alternatives. There's no question Windows & IE aren't going anyplace, but that doens't mean I have to use them. My next system will likely use Linux & definately K-meleon instead. The bottom line is that Windows & IE are the industry leaders because society is rampant with the kind of people that pay money for AOL.

Jon Doe, an IE user can complaining about bugs in another browser is like someone on a sinking ship complaining about dampness in a lifeboat. I don't want my browser "loaded" with anything. I like my applications to have a small footprint so I have room & speed for other things. What's more, an advantage to K-meleon is that it doesn't /need/ security features because it doesn't suffer the vulnarabilities of IE. I don't know about Mozila since I've never used it, but considering how many different people seem to contribute to it, it would be reasonable to assume a certain level of caution is prudent. For an obsolete toy, it sure has kept me going & I can't say the same for IE.
Don't you have to compile your own build of Mozilla? That's the implication I had back when I looked at it. Not that it really matters either way. It's too big & lumpy for my taste.

"Don't you have to compile your own build of Mozilla? That's the implication I had back when I looked at it. Not that it really matters either way. It's too big & lumpy for my taste."

No, you can download a pre-compiled binary (namely executable). But, Mozilla is pretty uncustomisable compared with K-Meleon, plus the XUL interface sucks up the memory.

Jon Doe- well what can I say. You should read a bit more of the forums, as the latest beta of K-Meleon has just been released, and I might add it's already looking better than 0.6. There has already been a few too many "Doubting Thomases" posting exactly the same thing you have: "oh K-Meleon is dead, you'd better use Mozilla!". Trust me, that sort of statement is very inaccurate, and very poor form.

Jon Doe,

We'll miss you when the next release comes out. I guess you'll have to hear about it from others. Enjoy Mozilla.

first off: to the guy from ---.dip.t-dialin.net(named 'me'); First off, who says it's me who gets these symptoms? I end up playing computer-doctor for quite a few people, and since I use K-Meleon exclusively(I like stability, speed, and security... and so I used 98lite to clean IE out of every Windows 98 and Windows ME(ugh..don't ask me why) install I have), the doubt is quickly deflected from me. Second, some sites plant false results in search engines, which look like something completely different than what actually shows up. I ended up taking a call at work a few days ago from somebody who had clicked on one of these links, but it just lead to an empty page -- next time she loaded internet explorer, some search engine showed up, along with some extra characters in the URL which looked suspiciously like a buffer overflow(about 200 tildes).

Well, godbless all you lucky kiddies like "me again" who have more MHZ and MB than lil ol me. All I'm saying is that Microsnot is out to sell hardware and I (and many others) can't afford it. I get by with a little help from my friends, inheriting the castoffs of others' upgrades. I wouldn't take XP unless it dropped into my lap - maybe not even then. I don't see why perfectly good, useful software and hardware should be abandoned simply because there are new tricks and games that "require" heavier guns. A lot of krap-tube konsumers with more hard drive than brainz IMHOP. Little boys with bigger-than-yours computers. ;-) Why I love K-Meleon. I get along just fine without a lot of sequins and rhinestones.
;-p
The only thing that could make me REinstall Invasive Exploiter is a need to test webpages I've written... and so far I don't feel the need all that much. If people want to view my sites with That Browser, it's their problem. I keep it simple and accessible. If people want to write code that excludes K-M, that's their problem too. I'll assume that there is nothing of any value there for me. And probably be right.
I have yet to encounter any site with content that I needed access to that I couldn't get at with one of my browsers. Anyone who is stuck with IE by their financial institution should camplain like hell. >:O
re: avoiding porn sites - not always possible, since, unethical pigs being what they are, it-shay appens-hay. At least I've never had one make a bookmark. Could happen that an older bookmark could turn into a porn site, though. Domains change hands. All y'can do is back out, spit, and delete.

Arual, then how do you get ms-update to work? [truly curious]

thanks.

"then how do you get ms-update to work?"

What you need that for anyway? You can download all of the updates, and since about 99% of them deal with IE . . .

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If it's Microsoft, use something else.

"Well, godbless all you lucky kiddies like "me again" who have more MHZ and MB than lil ol me. All I'm saying is that Microsnot is out to sell hardware and I (and many others) can't afford it. I get by with a little help from my friends, inheriting the castoffs of others' upgrades. I wouldn't take XP unless it dropped into my lap - maybe not even then. I don't see why perfectly good, useful software and hardware should be abandoned simply because there are new tricks and games that "require" heavier guns. A lot of krap-tube konsumers with more hard drive than brainz IMHOP. Little boys with bigger-than-yours computers."

Well maybe that's the case, however as computer parts and components are dirt cheap nowadays, well it's a moot point really. If you look around in the papers, you can also pick up some decent second-hand systems as well: our local paper down here had a 900mhz PC w/- 128 megs RAM for sale the other day for around $700.00 AUD (which works out to be approx. $350.00 USD). Pretty cheap if you ask me. Buy that one, and chuck in another 128megs RAM (which is about $40.00 USD), and you have a pretty decent PC system.

MS is not a charitable institution.It is big business so what do you expect.

Al, why should anyone need an up to date system to surf the web? Hell, I was doing it on a 286, why do you need a computer millions of times more powerful to do the same?

SJ,

I don't think Al. is endorsing that point. Otherwise, why would he be here? His points is that hardware is not as expensive as it once was and you can get way more than you need for not so much $$$ these days. It kills me to think what I used to pay for computer for work just a few years and what it bought me.

Andrew

Thanks for clarifying that Andrew, that was my point. Nowadays, compared to say a few years back, you can pick up computer parts and systems for a song. Second hand systems advertised in papers, computer fairs, computer shops selling off slightly older hardware and systems, I mean it's all pretty inexpensive these days.

For Steve: For the 12 megs that don't appear to disappear there is a easy solution. Drop to the command line go to C:\windows\history\history.ie5\ and delete the index.dat. That should drop your history folder down to about 32k. If you want to 'actually' clear the cache than go to C:\windows\tempor~1\content.ie5\ and delete the index.dat. That should completely delete everything in the folder except the cookies. That should eliminate the excess space. If you want to get away from IE(not a bad move) I would say that you should use one of the recent versions of mozilla or wait until KM 0.7. KM 0.6 is based on a very old version of the gecko engine and accordingly wouldn't properly use as many features a newer version would. From what I have heard there are only 2 bugs from releasing KM 0.7. That and it will be based on a much better version of the gecko engine. Good luck...

Thanks SSA! I'm already using K-Meleon 6 & it hasn't held me back from anything so far, so I'm perfectly happy with it until 7 finally comes along.

"then how do you get ms-update to work?"

What you need that for anyway? You can download all of the updates, and since about 99% of them deal with IE . . .

Jason,

Oh NO you can't! Try downloading the latest java VM security patch without IE! If you find a way to do that without IE, I'll praise your intellect.

Why do you need it? SECURITY, my man! Believe me, I totally avoid IE except in that situation; I even blow off IE updates on most machines, though on those students get their hands on I sometimes load them for safety's sake. Yes I run everything behind a locked-down firewall, but you never know what might creep through some day. So let us know how you download the VM security patch, please Jason.

So microsoft took it down. It was at:

http://www.microsoft.com/java/vm/dl_vm40.htm