Days? Weeks? Months? Years?

And will it be called Kmeleon 0.7, KMeleon 0.7, K-Meleon 0.7 or something else?

Here we go again.

This is why I prefer Linux Open OSS. Development occurs quickly, and developers are not trigger shy...and this doesn't mean that they release immature products. It just means that when significant improvements have been made, they release a version. I 've played with some of the recent KM betas and they work ok. I'd release a 0.65 version, or hell, even a 0.7 version knowing that development is ongoing and the product is going to keep improving. Technically, we should be working toward 0.8 or better at the rate things sem to be going. But regardless, we (end-users) shouldn't be teased with we're-almost-there promises or it'll-be worth-the-wait claims. The developers should get a backbone and just say that the product isn't ready...no where near ready. Or they should satisfy the vultures, give them a release, and then say 'I told you so.'

Having used the beta, I can honestly say it's best to wait until it's finished. It's just not ready yet. When it is ready though, it will be excellent.

On the other hand, I could also just as easily say this; get the hell out of here and make your own goddamn web browser, release it too early, and cry when everybody laughs at you, you don't get a loyal cult following of people who appreciate high quality software, and your project dies in obscurity, half finished.


That felt suprisingly good.

Two years ago, I began downloading versions of an obscure little browser off of which the rendering engine for KM browser is now built. New releases happened nearly every month, and while earlier versions were buggy, a loyal group of users began to build. Earlier this year that browser hit its 1.0 benchmark release...and a few months later, we're nearly on 1.2. And guess what? They also were simultaeneously developing things like an email client and web page building software. all along, I appreciated the alpha and beta releases, and in the long run, those releases helped their code immensely. Yup, KM 0.65 beta s buggy, but with more public releases, the project would gain popularity, which would likely attract more developers, which would...well, what ever happed to that little browser I started downloading several years ago?

Probably something more than is likely to happen to the one we all hope materializes out of this experiment, if the current development model is followed.

"Earlier this year that browser hit its 1.0 benchmark release...and a few months later, we're nearly on 1.2."

As stated before, Some Mozilla developers work for Netscape, thus they don't need another job to earn a living. If the developers could dedicate their time to K-Meleon, it would be done by now as well.

Also remember K-Meleon is based on MfcEmbed (Mozilla), thus some of the bugs need to be fixed by Mozilla itself, and without advancement in Mozilla, some improvements would never come to K-Meleon.

At the moment there seems to be only a few small bugs that is causing the latest betas to crash, which are being fixed. The developers are busy people, having to work and all, but they will get the bugs fixed as soon as they can.

Hey SJ Zero: Why don't you shut your foul fucking mouth? Who the hell are you to judge? Apparently someone with extremely *poor* judgement, since you think a personal attack an even-toned comment is normal. YOU, get the @!#$ out.

"... a personal attack an even-toned comment is normal."

What's that mean? Seriously, I'm not trying to harass you, I'm just curious what that means.

Also, personally, I consider "fucking" a more offensive word than "hell".

to "World of savages".

First, I presented two forks of the same comment. Choose the one which you feel applies -- civility or malice. To be honest, I think I'm right -- people who haven't run a software project shouldn't be giving out advice on how to run a successful software project.

Second, why bother censoring the second swear in your sentence when you've already shown the vocabulary of a sailor? Also, isn't it a bit hypocritical to be calling me foul mouthed?

Third, to answer your question, I'm SJ Zero. Hi. I'm arrogant, I'm opinionated, and I'm stubborn. I have an extremely short temper, and tend to believe that when I have a solution, there should be no further discussion. I'm flawed in that respect.


Besides, I was replying to a guy named "Evil Troll"; did you expect a well reasoned, two page long, thought provoking and interesting response from me?

" ...why bother censoring the second swear in your sentence when you've already shown the vocabulary of a sailor? Also, isn't it a bit hypocritical to be calling me foul mouthed?"

Yeah!

Fucking
@!#$

I didn't censor myself, the website did. Apparently it doesn't mind me saying the former, only the latter.

It's a good thing there are people like me around, to keep people like you in check.

Btw, I was merely putting things in terms I knew you'd understand.

So then why did it edit you & not everyone else? Or did you manage to come up with a word the system found more offensive than "hell", "goddamn" AND "fucking"? If so, I'd sure like to see it.

Steven: What do you think it means? SJ Zero seems to think it's ok to personally attack someone making an innocent inquiry into the status of K-Meleon. I was telling him that's not normal. On the other hand, my response to his conduct was quite normal. Unjustified force should and must be met with an equal or greater counterforce. SJ Zero was totally unjustified in his response to Z_God, so I did what had to be done. Many people may not like it, but someone has to have the courage to stand-up and do what's right, no matter how small or seemingly inconsequential the circumstances. SJ Zero was just wrong in what he said, *and* how he said it.

Steven: post a comment with fucking and @!#$ in it and see what happens. Honestly man, what is your game here, what are you doing right now? To everyone else: my apologies for the frequent use of these words; understand they are being used at this point in a purely academic context.

World of savages, I understand your position & everything, what I'm asking is; what does this sentence mean:

"... a personal attack an even-toned comment is normal."

I can't make any sense of it, it's as if it was written by someone for whom English is their third language. I don't know what "even-toned" means or how you can use "an" in front of it. Not that I'm trying to nit-pick or be anal or anything, I honestly want to understand what you meant in that particular sentence.

By the way, he was talking to Evil Troll, not Z_God. Plus, I personally think there's a difference between "normal" & "okay."

World of savages, how can I post a message with "@!#$" if I don't know what word it is? Right now I'm eating some leftovers & wasting more of my life on the Net.

It's a spelling error, I left out the "on". I meant to say, "you think a personal attack *on* an even-toned comment is normal." When the tone of something is even, it means it is consistent, not excessive.

The word is f|_|ck, which I cannot spell correctly otherwise it'll come out as @!#$.

World of Savages:

Oh... that makes so much more sense now, thanks. I knew it had to be something simple like that.

World of Savages, perhaps what we have here is a failure to communicate efficiently. I was never attacking Z_God, the guy who asked when it would be out, I was attacking(you know, that's even a pretty strong word...) EvilTroll, who was critisizing the practice of releasing software when it's complete and usable. I wouldn't harass anyone who wants to know when the final will be out, because I am interested in that information myself. I would, however, chew out any one of the hordes of impatient trolls who insist on telling the developers how to manage a project.

Come on folks, lets not reduce this to a flame war. If you have that much excess energy, why not help out with deveoping K-Meleon?

Well, evidentally SJ Zero missed the boat. I understand the method that the KM dev team is using. I just think that there are better models out there, and I suggested one. There are others. I wasn't trying to flame anyone. The obvious knee-jerk response to my post by SJ Zero was the one he posted. A debate on development models would have been a better one, but whatever. Jason Foss's reply was a valid one.
For similar competing dev models, you could check out the KDE vs Gnome strategies...but since this is mainly a haven for Windows types, I didn't bring it up. But for those interested in other competing release schedules for projects, check out other project homepages on sf.net. Go to the top 10 downloaded projects. You'll see they take on a different strategy than what goes on here. Maybe it's not a better one, I just thought that I'd throw out a different view on the discussion group and see what folks thought.

Comments (by SJ Zero) like:

"... get the hell out of here and make your own goddamn web browser, release it too early, and cry when everybody laughs at you, you don't get a loyal cult following of people who appreciate high quality software, and your project dies in obscurity, half finished. "

are pointless. And I followed up with an example where not too many are laughing at Mozilla now...like 'em or not. The same model Mozilla used is also close to the one used by another project, OpenOffice. Yes, these 2 OSS giants have some funding from corporate backers (AOL, Sun), but many high output projects don't (CDex, DevC++). And I will stick by my claim that the more popular a project becomes, the more developers it attracts. Public releases generate popularity, not active development hidden behind a forum web page. I only bring this up because I think that KM has LOTS of potential, but seems to be slow on development (relatively speaking).

EvilTroll


SJ Zero: Just because I use the nickname EvilTroll, doesn't mean I'm just throwing out insults. I just thought it was a funny name. I've also gone by spongebobsquarepants.

ps. I don't mean to slam the good work by any of the current dev folks out there. I'd buy any one of you a pint for my appreciation.

You're right. Sorry I blew up like that.

You obviously have some idea of the subject matter, and that puts you head and shoulders above the kind of person I *thought* I was replying to.

On the internet, and in real life, there are a lot of idiots out there who are willing to give bad advice based on a rumor, without proof or insight. Many of these people will go so far as to argue for their solution over a workable one despite their absolute lack of knowlege or insight. Just like when I had some Grade 11 programming student trying to convince me that I was doing something the wrong way in the JRPG engine(my pet project -- just an RPG engine under DOS, but I take pride in how far it's come), despite the fact that the code he had given me would be less accurate, be complex and buggy, and would be a tenth as fast, he kept on insisting that *this* was the way to do things.It's also like when the same Grade 11 Programming student, with no hardware experience whatsoever, starts telling me the way things *SHOULD* be in his eyes, completely oblivious to the fact that he's talking out of his ass(he wanted CPU manufacterers like Intel and AMD to print the speed of their processors in exact hertz, because his P3 800 runs at 798, but someone elses runs at 801 -- keep in mind that the motherboard controls the speed the bus runs at; the processor is just along for the ride), and flat-out ignoring the insistence of several knowlegable people that doing so would be impractical.

In short, don't take what I said as a personal attack, take it as a blow for people who know what the hell they're talking about, yourself included, and against those who don't but pretend they do anyway, and let everyone know it.

Group hug!

That's more like it, jolly good show folks.

Well I must say this was not how I expected this thread to turn-out, and that's why I didn't come back to it till now (in fact, I pretty much came back anticipating the need for a "fight or flight" response! ;-P )

I too apologize for any misinterpretation or miscommunication I contributed to.

Hmm, after I read this 'interesthing' thread, I didn't have an answer to my questions.
I didn't want to ask when, because if there was an exact release date, it would've already been posted. I thought it might be apropriate to ask if the development was near the end (days) or that it would still take some time (weeks, months, etc.).
I also saw a thread about the name some time ago, which is where the name question comes from.
Looking at the replies, it seems it will still take some months. I'm really looking forward to the release, because K-Meleon is a very good and fast browser.

K-Meleon has lost out to Phoenix I'm afraid, worked on tirelessly, releases very regularly, works great.
I dearly want K-Meleon to succeed but fear that its lack of developers is holding it back somewhat.