Quote
nexous
Better a Lite Version of KM. For the children and dumb users.

XD

Quote
nexous
[Better a Lite Version of KM. For the children and dumb users./quote]

wow, wow, wow
Don't worry, dumb users don't use KM.

Hi all!
I've decided to leave this forum definitely. My contributions are too small and my time is too scarce. I hope that K-Meleon be better in the future versions. Enhanced and easy to use. I hope one day KM support Mozilla extensions, and also that have traductions to all languages using Babelzilla.org.
Thank you for all your comments and helping hands.
Marcopolo & Felipe, I'll see you later in class.
Godbye to all.
Nexous.

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nexous
Wich be the next KM engine? rv:1.8.1?

Dorian experiments with both: 1.8.0.8 & 1.8.1 .
The last one passed out was already 1.8.1.

So I can only speculate. He tries to find the one best suited for k-meleon? Else he uses the newest? Probably the later. The k-m.exe will work with all 1.8x.

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marcopolo
I like it more than Firefox.

I also like it better but will not use social browsing but i have use for machine that uses FFox plugins occassionally.

Quote
felipe
speed...

Why our occupation with speed/performance?
A browser that performs 10 % faster with my pc will give me 10% more online viewing. I can only go a limited time the rest i am at work or going there
(13 hours) except on wekends. It is the same with many here.
So customisation, little resources and speed are the things i value.
& that i can get answers from forum (=good customer support).
greetings to all.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2006 03:05PM by guenter.

Quote
guenter
A browser that performs 10 % faster with my pc will give me 10% more online viewing

A browser that performs 10% faster give me also a 10% less time online connected.
However I think an enhanced browser lets you to be more efficient.
I like KMELEON, and IE, and Flock also, and I use what I need in that moment.
regards to all.

"Better a Lite Version of KM. For the children and dumb users."

I'm not really certain of the tone implied here. Nexous started the thread,
and it's hard to believe he means this sort of thing on it's face.

One of my neighbors is a heart surgeon. Plays the piano, can take all comers in chess, and is a pretty accomplished linguist - capable of eloquently expressing himself in half a dozen languages. His regular mode of transportation is a Ford F-150 two wheel drive red truck. No power windows, no tinted windows, no air-conditioning, no alloy wheels, no surround sound Bose, no etc, etc, etc. Quite evidently, transportation for him is a part of his life where he sees little need for complications. Only a fool would suggest that this admirable sentiment might only appeal to "children and dumb users".

It's a curious phenomenon that 90percent of users of extraordiarily powerful toys generally only use about 10percent of the toys capabilities. This goes for 350hp fully decked out automobiles and 4wd trucks, and fully decked out hypergig laptops with blazing bandwidth connections. Those lost percentages usually amount to useless pissing contests up against the barn doors, and a generous amount of circle-jerking on technical forums.

Relatively simple living is sadly underestimated.

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bjamesw
I'm not really certain of the tone implied here. Nexous started the thread, and it's hard to believe he means this sort of thing on it's face.

If you are not sure about the tone implied there, why do you give us a speech?
I think Nexous said that phrase answering me to my proposals in an ironic tone.
Where is the problem? Have your KMeleon crashed today?

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bjamesw
One of my neighbors is a heart surgeon. Plays the piano, can take all comers in chess, and is a pretty accomplished linguist - capable of eloquently expressing himself in half a dozen languages.

And? Four years ago I knew a drug addict that won 4.000.000 € in the lotto. Now he lives in one of the most beatiful residential area I have ever seen. And? Probably he does not use KMeleon, nor Flock, dear Bjamesw. Perhaps he has not a car or computer. What for? He may call a driver to carry him to everywhere. He may call to his bank and solve anything by phone without computer. Is he dumb? Nobody has a perfect life, and who are you to say that your neighbour is not a dumb? Have you a PhD thesis about dumb & dumbers?

I think Nexous is right, why not a lite version of Kmeleon for everyone without no knowledge of browsers. LoL, of course... It is an ironic KM tone... Again.
Only one thing, did you want to say anything about Flock?
A little of please.

flock rhymes with clock. Har !!!!!!!
I told you I wasn't sure of his tone. Oh well. You seem more interested
in jousting. I stick with my point. If you really did miss it, even if it
did misapprehend nexous, then it wasn't really intended for your consumption anyway.
Don't know what time zone you're in, but why don't you just hit the sack and sleep off whatever bug is up your ass today.

...anyway, i did reread the whole thread, and it really isn't clear just what Nexous meant. I certainly can't understand what the fu@% you're drug addict story has to do with my example.

I'm REALLY sorry that I misunderstood Nexous. I TERRIBLY sorry that I've somehow offended you marcopolo (god knows how).

Lighten up man.

I downloaded Flock and tried it. Runs like Firefox, which is OK. I changed some of the values in Flock's 'about:config' to the same values I had listed in K-Meleon's 'about:config'. Flock runs better now, but it's still no K-Meleon.

morcopolo,
Do not worry about missunderstanding & none here mean/wants to annoy.
There is often missunderstanding - many do not speak English as mother language.

Many here know that it is fest to use the browser best suited for a certain job.
(It is more often K-m but not always ;-)

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bjamesw
One of my neighbors is a heart surgeon. Plays the piano, can take all comers in chess, and is a pretty accomplished linguist - capable of eloquently expressing himself in half a dozen languages.

Do you love him? Are you feeling an unavoidable attraction to him?
XD

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bjamesw
I certainly can't understand what the fu@% you're drug addict story has to do with my example.

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bjamesw
It's a curious phenomenon that 90percent of users of extraordiarily powerful toys generally only use about 10percent of the toys capabilities.

Only in order to say you that nobody is perfect. Life is an example of continuous blemish. You may talk 10 languages, and what? From my point of view, a person who speaks 10 languages can say stupid phrases in 10 languages also. The drug addict of my history becames rich, your surgeon seems Hannibal Lecter. Both are allegedly deviated from social accepted normality standards concerning to normal development and life improvement. If your surgeon or my drug addict have invited me to lunch in his house, I probably will decline for security reasons. XD

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jhones
Flock runs better now, but it's still no K-Meleon.

K-Meleon is very good, of course. We have bad luck on marketing... Anyway.

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marcopolo
I don't know what kind of tests have you made, but I completed the whole site [www.clarin.com] with KMeleon with no adblock nor flashblock in 36.41 seconds. With Flock I completed the same web page in 30.49 seconds. With Firefox with four extensions (gmail manager, redirect remover, noscript and forecast), 56.49 seconds, and with IE6SP1 37.53 seconds. That web page is very heavy, of course.

I added this changes to Flock (about:config) and I completed the whole page in only 20 seconds, in front of 29 seconds of K-Meleon in my computer.

user_pref("network.http.max-connections", 96);
user_pref("network.http.max-connections-per-server", 32);
user_pref("network.http.max-persistent-connections-per-proxy", 24); user_pref("network.http.max-persistent-connections-per-server", 12);
user_pref("network.http.pipelining", true);
user_pref("network.http.proxy.pipelining", true);
user_pref("network.http.pipelining.firstrequest", true);
user_pref("network.http.pipelining.maxrequests", 8);
user_pref("network.dnsCacheExpiration", 86400);
user_pref("network.dnsCacheEntries", 256);
user_pref("network.ftp.idleConnectionTimeout", 60);
user_pref("network.http.keep-alive.timeout", 30);
user_pref("nglayout.initialpaint.delay", 0);
user_pref("content.notify.ontimer", true);
user_pref("content.interrupt.parsing", true);
user_pref("content.notify.interval", 100);
user_pref("content.notify.threshold", 100000);
user_pref("content.notify.backoffcount", 200);
user_pref("content.max.tokenizing.time", 3000000);
user_pref("content.maxtextrun", 8191);
user_pref("browser.xul.error_pages.enabled", true)
user_pref("general.smoothScroll", false);
user_pref("config.trim_on_minimize", false);

Yes, Felipe, these optimization tricks can be found on

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1854234,00.asp

and it can be done to Firefox, Flock and KMeleon.

But for slow computers they recommend also the next tricks:

user_pref("nglayout.initialpaint.delay", 125);
user_pref("content.notify.ontimer", true);
user_pref("content.interrupt.parsing", true);
user_pref("content.notify.interval", 300000);
user_pref("content.notify.threshold", 300000);
user_pref("content.notify.backoffcount", 10);
user_pref("content.max.tokenizing.time", 2000000);
user_pref("content.maxtextrun", 8191);

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1854517,00.asp

Thank you, Felipe.

If the result is not just from the way of the test-setup but a normal thing/ normal surfing habbit during test: You would use Flock to visit such pages.
I would any way.

Quote
felipe

Quote
marcopolo
I don't know what kind of tests have you made, but I completed the whole site [www.clarin.com] with KMeleon with no adblock nor flashblock in 36.41 seconds. With Flock I completed the same web page in 30.49 seconds. With Firefox with four extensions (gmail manager, redirect remover, noscript and forecast), 56.49 seconds, and with IE6SP1 37.53 seconds. That web page is very heavy, of course.

I added this changes to Flock (about:config)

Any browser with Gecko engine can use Achilles collection of FFox tweaks.
They are several times quoted completely in this forum also.

Massive changes are most effective dierctly added to prefs.js with editor while any Gecko is shutdown or via user.js. AFAI can see that page is not very heavy to render but You rely on luck how many requests/ppl are there at the moment.

Yes, FFox and Flock can be faster - several reasons:
one: they are statically linked which is better for stronger PC.
another: they consume less CPU-time on certain pages...

The relative slow performance of a FFox with certain extensions shows that XUL
can drastically slow.

p. s. ( & do not forget to flush browser cache before such resource heavy tests ).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2006 08:46PM by guenter.

Quote
marcopolo
and it can be done to Firefox, Flock and KMeleon.

Yes, K-Meleon is faster when the tricks are applied. The page www.clarin.com.ar loads in 22 seconds in K-Meleon after adding those lines in about:config. KM gains 9 seconds in front of non tunned KM. Flock has similar speed than K-Meleon.

Quote
felipe
KM gains 9 seconds in front of non tunned KM

I have similar results following your recomendations.

Just to point out the slow-down effect of adverts :

K-Meleon (on Linux),javascript disabled, ad-blocking by userContent.css,
no Flash, loads the page in about 8 seconds.

Dillo (Linux only), non javascript browser, no css and ad-blocking built in
by default, unchangeable, loads the page in about 4 seconds.

Quite a difference.

Fred

Fred - true and thx = very keen observation;

btw. I never knew that and always had script on since K-Melon was secure enough.

I will disable java-script in future!

Here k-m on p500 & sufficiant RAM. k-m seemed to me like 4 or 5 seconds rendering time. Flock about the same values. So Flock also very much faster!!!

Definitely & surprisingly faster!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2006 12:47AM by guenter.

Yikes! Be careful guys! Everybody here is very valuable to all the rest of us! NO FIGHTING AMONGST GOOD FELLOWS, okay?

You know everybody is pretty bright, and with that, everybody is one of a kind AND sensitive! So always go easy on the other guy! Let me share this with you:

The "Benefit of the Doubt" Principle
ALWAYS take the other guy's words the BEST way you can! Give him the benefit of the doubt! It is dirty pool to purposely turn his words around against him!

I'm NOT addressing that to you, bjamesw, because actually I was going to congratulate you for what you said. Then I read further down. So, guys, please, bjamesw was worried about that "children and dummies" thing, and so was I. Let's laugh it off, okay? —There was an advertisement a few years ago for a computer program, and it said: "So easy your Dad can do it!" Fact is, kids are brilliant on computers. And dummies? Don't use that word. It refers to people who can't speak, so there are, um, well, brighter words to choose. . . .

We are using written words here, and we can't see each others' faces. For example, Guenter is a massively-built giant who stands a head above any man you've ever seen! He is so powerful that even his muscles have muscles! He has a FIERCE TEMPER, but it is only aroused when people say the wrong thing about computer programs! Always BE VERY NICE to Guenter!

Anyway, I want everybody to send everybody else $100 now to show there are no hard feelings. If everybody sends their money to me, I'll forward it on.

Just GET ALONG, you guys!!! You ARE ALL NEEDED HERE!! Every one of you is very bright, so no more being so DUMB, huh?

(And, bjamesw, you were the one who went against the current, so congratulations for having the guts to do that. And, Guenter, apologies as always. . . .)

I only turn javascript on, if I get stuck somewhere,
or to see a certain feature, its faster without and improves
security at the same time.
CSS may be slowing down also, as the speed of the Dillo browser
on Linux, that does not react to CSS, is really baffling.
There are some websites that need CSS, to show a correct page order,
but they are not as many as one would believe. I think that most
websites have a doubling reserve presentation code, in case that
CSS is not correctly shown. As it is readable in any case,
I use Dillo in Linux, if I am really in a hurry.
Regards
Fred

Carson - only the ones with mother tongue = english can be held responsible :-D

btw. i checked with several browsers (mostly k-m naturally) even from the past.
IMHO k-m can probably improve 4 another 2 seconds or so with a statik build.

Fred - i guess I turned it on by default because my own page

http://home.htp-tel.de/sterntaler/

uses script to change music/tunes.

But i use it not for spying or anything that uses much resources.
I took out snow script by Kurt Grigg because it drew 2 many resources from
small pc, when i heard about performance problems(should I say: use k-m 4 that? .

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carson
And dummies? Don't use that word. It refers to people who can't speak, so there are, um, well, brighter words to choose. . . .

Who said "dummies"? I thought the word was "dumber", "for children and dumber".
Jim Carrey acts in Dum & Dumber. There were a second part, Dumb & Dumber 2.
Have you protested then? What a kind of sensibility, my God...

Quote
guenter
Here k-m on p500 & sufficiant RAM. k-m seemed to me like 4 or 5 seconds rendering time. Flock about the same values. So Flock also very much faster!!!

Definitely & surprisingly faster!

I am also very surprised, Guenter. I have encountered similar values as Felipe found. Our results, after several tests, indicate that KMeleon is "equally" fast as Flock after hours of navigation. In some pages, Flock is faster, loading the whole webpage with addons, javascript, and all images in six or seven seconds less than KM. With nothing being blocked, Flock is amazing faster compared with KMeleon. I have several doubts about these probes, because their results are very surprising. I opened near sixty webpages in KMeleon and Flock and I have fount that Flock is about a 7% faster than KMeleon. Then I opened heavy pages, with some addons, java contents, and plenty of images, and Flock opened all near a 5% faster as KMeleon. But when I opened selected pages, those that I know that Flock is surely faster, the differences reach to 15% between both browsers, and Flock definitely should be considered faster.

I am not sure I have done the correct tests, but if it have well done, I think KMeleon have a seriously problem renderizing pages. I do not understand nothing.

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marcopolo
I am not sure I have done the correct tests, but if it have well done, I think KMeleon have a seriously problem renderizing pages. I do not understand nothing.

I'm agree. K-Meleon should be faster. It should be. But it isn't.
You're right, I also think that there's a renderization problem.
Guenter is right too: With the same values, Flock is also much faster.
What's wrong then?

Perhaps the computer hardware is one factor for these differences. But I have done the tests in four computer with different CPU and amount of RAM and Flock generally have similar or better results than KM. Not always, of course.

any idea, felipe & guenter?

I agree: PC hardware, system settings, OS used (98/2000/XP) are big factors.
This was found and discussed in much detail before 0.8.2+ was build.

Not faster then k-meleon on my pc.
( "suprisingly faster" does not refer to that - but faster than expected ).
FFoxes use less CPU generally so on pages that use much CPU can be faster.
GRE 1.8.0.8 used by Flock seems a little faster than 1.8.0.7 that is in k-m 1.02.
( i also tried with GRE newer and older than 1.8.0.7 ).
I also tried with old 0.8.2+ & such.

I use links to specific test pages such as:
http://scragz.com/tech/mozilla/test-rendering-time.php
tables & cetera

java script on an old site that is partially broken now:
http://www.24fun.com/downloadcenter/benchjs/benchjs.html

Things installed:
http://www.maptrax.com.au/standardscompliance/browsertest/
http://gemal.dk/browserspy/

As said before individual specs vary and all should use the browser that is best suited to their own specifik tasks. I do so anyway.

Off 2 go shopping now - greetz

I've found the forward/ back button response between individual websites, on the same Tab, is faster using K-Meleon 1.02. Forward/ back button response between webpages on the same website is faster with Flock 0.7.8.

I opened/ closed 4 websites using 1 Tab and on the 5th website, Flock locked up. Had to use Windows Task Manager to End Process and get out of Flock. Flock is advertised as Beta so I'll cut it some slack.

Quote
jhones
I opened/ closed 4 websites using 1 Tab and on the 5th website, Flock locked up. Had to use Windows Task Manager to End Process and get out of Flock. Flock is advertised as Beta so I'll cut it some slack.

I use Flock 0.76 and KMeleon 0.76 spanish edition.
KMeleon have never crashed in my computer nor Flock.
Hardware and also other factors should be considered.

I have sent two message and both have been considered as spam.