I hate to say it, but I am fed up with configuring K-Meleon. The reason why I abandoned Firefox in the first place is because I did not like the cross-platform XUL bloating memory usage. K-Meleon was a breathe of fresh air, considering that it takes advantage of Windows' native API, thus running more efficiently. With Firefox, there was so much lag that I had to wait minutes inbetween loading pages because the browser would have random lock-ups. K-Meleon never made me suffer through this. However, it seems I traded one problem for another, as K-Meleon (and the many unofficial builds I've tried) have presented many issues in terms of updating, adding new components, and manually configuring every aspect of its functionality when I know nothing about developing a browser in the first place. I guess this wouldn't be much of an issue for people who are script-savvy, but it's definitely not my area of expertise.

My favorite build so far has been CCF, but this is also the most problematic build for me, as I cannot find support from neither Hao Jiang or the K-Meleon community. Namely, I like the real-tab structure, as opposed to super-imposing several windows into one. But again, I'm trading one problem for another, as CCF is impossible for me to use on a practical basis. I struggle to configure individual functions to my liking, always managing to screw the entire browser up in the process. Let me just name off a few of the problems I've had so far:

-K-Meleon never allows me to back-up my profiles. When I update to a new version of K-Meleon and copy over my old Profiles folder, I always get an error message telling me that the profile is already in use, and I cannot load it. This means I lose all of my old settings, all of my bookmarks, etc.

-K-Meleon doesn't seem to know the location of its own directories. For example, if I associate a file type (say, images) with K-Meleon and then launch K-Meleon by clicking on a file of that type, I recieve several error messages stating that the browser cannot locate such and such directory, and I'm presented with a very non-functional interface. (bookmarks, toolbars, buttons, etc. simply go missing!)

-None of the extensions adapted for use with K-Meleon ever work. Unless they are included with K-Meleon distribution by default, then it is impossible for me to manually add them myself. Maybe this is a lack of configuration knowledge on my part? Either way, there are several features I've seen in previous versions of the browser that I would like to have access to now, such as NoScript. For whatever reason, they keep getting removed from the newer releases. I've tried downloading each specific version and copying over the various extensions I wanted to use, but as I said, they are never compatible. I'm always stuck with whatever is included by default.

Keep in mind that I have been extremely patient about seeking support, but I don't think I should have to plea for it. I understand that a lot of people (especially developers) are busy with this and other projects. Either way, I'm just going back to Firefox. K-Meleon has become far too tedious and is only going to cause me more frustration than it's simply worth.

I like Flock more than KMeleon, but for me Kmeleon is a way to play, to discover things. I agree with you, specially about your general problems with KMeleon.
Good bye and good luck.

Actually, I understand, but going to Firefox isn't an either/or decision. Please use Firefox and experiment with K-Meleon until you are comfortable with K-Meleon.

I think that the problem with support has to do with the fact that the people who are active enough to know some answers:
1) are few and are scattered across the globe,
2) may be very busy at any given moment with teir own lives,
3) and may not see the message you have posted.
That said, I have seen this post, so MAYBE I can think of some answers (if I don't fall asleep... it's after 4AM here in New York, I have to go to try and get some sleep and get up and go to work, and I only opened this forum page accidentally because I wanted to check the internet connection on an ailing computer).

Hao Jiang spends a lot of time away from this forum on the ClassiClubForum (CCF), which is in chinese. If you need to find him post a question on one of the forum-threads that he has recently posted messages on (search authors for Hao).

The best way to transfer bookmarks is to copy the bookmarks.html file itself into the new profile folder (and if you are using a Firefox browser it is often possible to copy that bookmarks.html file into K-Meleons profile), and when using a developing browser (including the development versions of Firefox) it is a good idea to make a separate backup copy somewhere else, as well (copies are easy to make with a right-click, and don't take up much space).
Transferring toobar positions is probably best done by repostioning them (you can copy the "kmeleon.toolband..." lines from the old prefs.js to the new, but it is tricky and the toolbar settings are generally specific to one skin).

The best way to associate K-Meleon is usually by using "set-default", but I have not had much experince with that. I usually just drag files to k-meleon.exe (or a shortcut to it) or open the file using the "File" menu.

If you really need a specific feature it is often easiest to use a version of K-Meleon that already has it (search this forum for "NoScript", for instance). If you want to also experiment with another K-Meleon just install-or-unpack-it to a "different" directory. You cannot launch two K-Meleons together side by side, but if you close one completely (including the loader, if you use it) you can then open another K-Meleon. Douglas Mcfadzean (mc-fadzean.fsnet.co.uk/computing/kmeleon) knows an awful lot about profiles and his Pocket K-meolens seem quite stable. If you search the forum for profile.ini you will find some info on keeping K-Meleons pieces together.

When I first started using K-Meleon, I often trashed the entire browser and had to put together a new one from the pieces. Nowadays I still sometimes mess up a menus.cfg or prefs.js through a typing error, but I usually have made a backup before making the alteration, so it's very easy to fix.

I'm sorry that this is such a scattered bunch of half-answers, but it is late and I am tired.
Most importantly don't be discouraged, you have asked some great question and made some great suggestions in the past.

Firefox is O.K., but please keep reading this forum,
-Vincent

Vincent, there are actually far more issues than mentioned in this thread, but I've actually lost count of them all! I'm sure they're scattered somewhere throughout this forum, as I've tried bringing them up in the past. I have found some useful support from some of the users, but between manually reconfiguring every new distribution, I lose memory of all the scripts and files I have to change on a continual basis. At some point, I wish one of the developers would just address these issues once and for all. Instead, I've been through 5 or 6 different versions of the browser with no hope in sight.

I think you were in the wrong place at the wrong time. First you choose KM CCF, the difficult way of KM. Second, you think KM is easy upgradeable. Third, you think that you are God and that you can solve one hundred problems or that you can made a browser by yourself. Wrong side on the wrong way, guy. Your reasons are patetic, sorry, but you must know. Everybody knows these reasons because we fight everyday with it, actually with the new beta version posted by Dorian. I think you were to abandon few years ago, not now. Good bye, and good FF crash.

Quote
felipe
Good bye, and good FF crash.

XD

Quote
vpowell
The best way to transfer bookmarks is to copy the bookmarks.html file itself into the new profile folder

By the way, I wanted to mention that I'm still having problems with this. I'm not sure if it's related to bookmarks, per se, but any time I try to migrate my whole profile over I get problems. Even if I simply copy my bookmarks over to the new version, they usually won't load. (this might have something to do with that particular version, though)

XD

From the viewpoint of usability, Grendel is hitting the nail right on the head.

One wants a browser, not a coding project. That's the reason I stuck with KM WB 0.8.2+ for so long.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2006 12:37PM by foobarly.

Quote
Grendel
... between manually reconfiguring every new distribution, I lose memory of all the scripts and files I have to change on a continual basis. At some point, I wish one of the developers would just address these issues once and for all. Instead, I've been through 5 or 6 different versions of the browser with no hope in sight.

We are working on that. K-Meleon 1.1 has some major improvements in this regard. It has default and user config files allowing you to update to a new version in the future without losing your customizations...

-K-Meleon never allows me to back-up my profiles. When I update to a new version of K-Meleon and copy over my old Profiles folder, I always get an error message telling me that the profile is already in use, and I cannot load it.
The solution is simple: Close K-Meleon before copying the profile, never copy a profile that is in use.
This means I lose all of my old settings, all of my bookmarks, etc.

I've created my profiles with 0.9, used them with 1.0x and I'm now using them with 1.1. Especially the 1.x versions are unproblematic when using the default profile location under %AppData% (\Documents and Settings\...).

-None of the extensions adapted for use with K-Meleon ever work. Unless they are included with K-Meleon distribution by default, then it is impossible for me to manually add them myself. Maybe this is a lack of configuration knowledge on my part?
Yes and No. Integrating extensions into km is usually really very difficult.
Either way, there are several features I've seen in previous versions of the browser that I would like to have access to now, such as NoScript. For whatever reason, they keep getting removed from the newer releases.
NoScript was only integrated in one of the intermediate 0.9.x versions - thanks to a combined effort of several community members. But AFAIK, they could only make it work with 0.9 (Mozilla 1.7), not with 1.0 (Mozilla 1.8). I would like to see this extension integrated by default. But keep in mind that we are only two active developers at this time. We are currently all occupied with our regular business...

I know the feeling, definitely. In my experience, I've known it elsewhere, though. K-Meleon has always been good to me.

I accidentally brought in some flak when I said on a distant forum that "the customer is always right". I believe that, because it used to be emphasized. The equivalent is that the receiver of the message is always right: that's the end-user.

You see it everywhere in computer-land, from stores selling computers to the web. It is SO easy for experts in any field to forget that the ordinary Joe is not stupid—he may be quite the genius, but in a different area. So I always have a lot of empathy for people who are having big problems with computers. No matter what the problems, or whether I personally share those particular ones, I feel "the customer is always right".

Long ago, A. A. Milne expressed this very concern in Winnie-the-Pooh, in which Tigger, exuberant but not extremely house-broken, got into a wild fight with a tablecloth, which ended up with Tigger coming out from under the offending tablecloth on the floor of his host's dining-room, with the question from the tangles: "Did I win?"

Grendel, there is a time for all your adventures with these Model-T Fords we currently celebrate as the latest and the best. Quite a few folk work around your problems by running several different browsers. I use three. However, I urge you not to work around disputes with girlfriends in this manner, which could render a man's life nasty, brutish, and short.

There are no perfect browsers. (Actually "perfect" means "complete", and over the years we've kind of blurred together the idea of completion with having no more bugs; when something was finished, it was "perfected", or "perfect".) Hence we live in an imperfect world, with imperfect browsers. We are doing everything we can to blow the world up, and everything we can to perfect K-Meleon a few days before we do.

I'm sorry this won't help you a whole lot, Grendel. Maybe you can feel good about one thing, though: The people at the K-Meleon forums are the friendliest, most constructive, you'll meet anywhere. Sometimes they can help you, and sometimes they're hoping you can help them. So that's not bad. In K-Meleon, you get a whole bunch of good people plus a green lizard. What more could a person be browsing for, in the first place?

Good luck and come back soon, y'hear?




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2006 02:51PM by Carson.

XD

Grendel seems to wanted to fight with lyons and now he came back to fight with cats.
XD

Grendel,

If you have too many problems with K-Meleon, before giving
K-Meleon up completely, why not try my simplified version
for Linux/Wine. It works even there, and should have no problems
in Windows. The Gecko Engine is the new 1.8.1.
It is now also downloadable as zip from Rapidshare.com, at:

http://rapidshare.com/files/4147621/K-Meleon-Linux-usable-1.8.1.zip.html

The browser structure is similar to the earlier 0.9 versions,
but with updated security. If you get an error message, when
starting the second time, click the button again, and later take
the hook away in Edit/ManageProfiles.
This version should work everywhere, if difficulties should exist
with other versions.

Fred

P.S.:
The profile is by default in the K-Meleon main folder.
Copy your existing bookmarks there into this profile,
that the browser creates at the first start,
and the bookmarks should appear after the next start.
The javascript button toggles javascript on and off.
Reload the page after using it.
Adblocking is done by userContent.css .
There are two menu entries to toggle that in Tools->Privacy->
Permissions.

Fred

Quote
kko
Close K-Meleon before copying the profile, never copy a profile that is in use.

I always make sure to terminate every instance of K-Meleon before copying any of my files over. Could there be any other possible reasons?

Quote
Fred
If you have too many problems with K-Meleon, before giving K-Meleon up completely, why not try my simplified version for Linux/Wine. It works even there, and should have no problems in Windows.

Thanks, Fred. I'll give this distribution a try.

EDIT: I seem to have more issues with this one. After extracting it and launching the browser, I took a look around and closed it a little while later. A few minutes later, I launched it again and started getting the profile error. (default profile in use) No instances of the browser were in memory.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2006 06:51PM by Grendel.

If none of those confirmed Bugs/RFE you're talking about are in the bug tracker, they're most likely not going to be fixed.

Don't blame kmeleon about the profile problem. There is probably something to prevent mozilla from loading your profiles but it has nothing to do with kmeleon. It's either a lock file or a incompatibility/options/magic feature which only mozilla has the secret.

Quote
Dorian
If none of those confirmed Bugs/RFE you're talking about are in the bug tracker, they're most likely not going to be fixed.

I'm not sure how to report bugs, other than mentioning them somewhere here in the forums.

Quote

Don't blame kmeleon about the profile problem. There is probably something to prevent mozilla from loading your profiles but it has nothing to do with kmeleon. It's either a lock file or a incompatibility/options/magic feature which only mozilla has the secret.

Could be, but I don't remember experiencing this problem with Mozilla / SeaMonkey. I used the suite off and on in the past. Even if it's an issue with the Mozilla core, I have no real way to tell, as I don't have the knowledge to take it apart and understand how it works. All I can really do is report my problems and hope for the best...

Well. Sorry for the late reply. (kind of busy these days...)

I do agree with kko that the user friendly KM is coming very soon. The new 1.1 a2 1.81 version shows a lot of interesting things there: the default folder .cfg file configurations and .kmm file structure of macros which is great. And kko shows great works in writing those macros.

K-MeleonCCF versions still in experimental process since it 's using tab structure and lua macros and that's why I put the version numbers in 0.0x ... Nontheless, a lot of things got improved in last several months with the help from Dorian, I could see a bright future for the whole K-Meleon and K-Meleon community.

FF does have many advantages than K-Meleon. But do remember one thing: "browser is not your religion", just find the right browser for your own convenience and use at this moment. KM is famous for its speed and resource usage and FF is good at its expendablility. Why not use both of them for different needs...

Again, I do appoligize for my late reply and not able to answer Grendel questions in time. After all, thank you for using K-Meleon.

Regards,

Hao

Grendel,

I forgot to mention, that the browser version for Linux/Wine
works only if you have the files mfc71.dll, msvcp71.dll
and msvcr71.dll in your system or in your K-Meleon folder.
Most will already have them on their computer, but if
you need them, they are still available under the name
"dll-installer" on the KM 8.2 website at :

http://www.lontronics.nl/index.php?m=0006

This would install the files on your system .

Fred

I'm quite new to K-Meleon, but I'll add my reflections because although I cannot or do not know whether Grendel's claims are valid, I empathize with the frustration.

I have been using desktop computers for 25 years. Every day I do some kind of lightweight hacking, tweaking, or programming, but I am not a professional software developer. I am only an experienced and knowledgeable user. But I understand that frustration because as a middle-aged old fart, these days I do not want to tinker as much as I used to---I want the computer to work with as little fuss as possible. I have observed that typical end-users have the same attitude. They want to hop into their cars to drive to the store without becoming a NASCAR certified mechanic.

One of the reasons I grew discontented with Firefox is that with each release I notice that the developers do not listen or cater to end-users. Not much anyway. To dramatically improve usability there are a dozen or so extensions that long ago should have been converted into the Firefox source code but the Firefox developers refuse. End-users have continually requested a better configuration interface to tweak all of those underlying preferences. The Seamonkey, nee Mozilla preferences dialog box provides a lot of access to tweaking those preferences. The Firefox developers could easily snatch those sections of code and incorporate a nice interface. But nothing happens. Why? I don't know, but I suspect some egos are in the way. Firefox is more a political project than technological. Personally, I find the bare Firefox unusable without extensions. And with each release the XUL interface gets slower and slower on my aging hardware. The Firefox developers do not seem to care. They all have computers powered with 747 turbo engines and everything on their boxes is fast. K-Meleon does not fit that mold. K-Meleon is wonderfully fast on my aging but useful hardware. Although I did a lot of tweaking to satisfy my tastes, I still found K-Meleon quite usable and responsive out of the box. Well, except for the bmp and rebar plugin snafus.

Free software (free as defined by the Free Software Foundation people---the four freedoms) is wonderfully empowering. But with a caveat. One of the four freedoms is the freedom to modify the source code. A wonderful idea except that typical end-users do not possess the talents and skills necessary to modify source code. The reality then of free software is that end-users remain pretty much at the mercy of the developers---many of whom voluntarily provide their skills. And from that perspective I appreciate any user's frustrations.

A note to Grendel: use the user.js file to preserve certain settings. Then move your bookmarks and cache directories out of your profile directory. Long ago when Firefox was known as Phoenix, the program was notorious for losing both bookmarks and cache files (still is according to some reports). Fortunately, through the preferences settings, users could specify a different location for both the bookmarks file and the cache directory. So for the past several years I have avoided problems with my bookmarks and cache when updating Firefox because those files are no longer stored in my profile directory. Most of the remainder of the profile is nowhere near as important as those bookmarks and this one little trick can avoid a lot of grief and frustration.

Frustration?
XD

Quote
Peabody
A note to Grendel: use the user.js file to preserve certain settings. Then move your bookmarks and cache directories out of your profile directory.

If I remember correctly, I just moved the Profiles folder and the prefs folder to every new installation. (I'm guessing they contained all the necessary files) I wanted to preserve all my filters and such -- for example, my manual cookie policy on a site-per-site basis. I haven't had any trouble with that, it's just the process of getting K-Meleon to load my profile in the first place. When I start experiencing problems with this, I have to deleted the (corrupted?) Profiles folder and start all over. I may have just copied the wrong files. I have no clue.

Next time, I'll just copy the files you mentioned only and see what happens from there. Will these also apply to my cookie policies as mentioned above?

Quote
Grendel
I'm not sure how to report bugs, other than mentioning them somewhere here in the forums.

Clicking on Bugs in the menu

Quote
Grendel
Could be, but I don't remember experiencing this problem with Mozilla / SeaMonkey. I used the suite off and on in the past. Even if it's an issue with the Mozilla core, I have no real way to tell, as I don't have the knowledge to take it apart and understand how it works. All I can really do is report my problems and hope for the best...

That's why I'm talking about magic. Seamonkey has migration code in its profile component but it's not really accessible from kmeleon, and not used in mfcembed (the application to test embedded mozilla). The only way to find what should be done is to dig it out from the mozilla source tree which is time consuming and enot always safe.

Quote

Will these also apply to my cookie policies as mentioned above?

Cookie policies, and image policies, are stored in hostperm.1. There is no user_pref setting that I know about that allows moving the location of this file.

This file is indeed important in rebuilding a user profile.

The actual cookies are stored in cookies.txt.

My disaster prevention solution always has been regular backups, but for years I have been dogmatic about backing up my systems. I suspect that because K-M supports a macro language, that somebody could write a macro to create backup copies of such important files upon exiting K-M. Since version 1.5 Firefox has been packaged with a routine to create backups of the bookmarks file, so this kind of practice probably will become popular with other browsers too.

Perhaps a clever K-M user is reading this thread and will write a macro to backup important files upon exiting K-M.

@Peabody - I can understand why FF would make backups of their bookmarks.html since they include addresses for favicons to be imbedded in their drop down menus. Actually, this is one of the most troublesome aspects of their bookmarks. K-M's are much simpler, and I have never seen them corrupted. Why don't you just create a batch file from Dos and have it backup your folder containing your ,cfg's, etc., and bookmarks to another drive?

You have configuration problems with K-Meleon so you're going back to Firefox?

*LOGIC EXPLOSION*

Quote

That's why I'm talking about magic. Seamonkey has migration code in its profile component but it's not really accessible from kmeleon, and not used in mfcembed (the application to test embedded mozilla). The only way to find what should be done is to dig it out from the mozilla source tree which is time consuming and enot always safe.

Why don't you ask the SeaMonkey developers for a little help?

Quote
Peabody
[Perhaps a ... K-M user is reading this thread and will write a macro to backup important files upon exiting K-M.

Why create one if we could adapt a FFox extension?

http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?2,68933,68933#msg-68933

We only need a clever user that writes them back by hand or a dev/user that creates something that writes the backups back to a new profile if they are needed

Plus: we need an installer or something like it for our new *.kmm macro extensions:

1.) inluding features that install additional chrome in case a kmm need it
(maybe use a chrome.dll and chrome.xpt that can handle manifest files that can be copied in place else something that catenates lines to installed-Chrome.txt and
then deletes the 2 or 3 rdf files in chrome folder that must be rewritten).
2.) including features that install additional dll and xpt into components folder
that include a mechanism that deletes compreg.dat and xpi.dat so that they are rewritten and register addional new xpt.
3.) including features that add new files to ./defaults... folder.
4.) including features that add new files to macros folder or used-profile macros folder.

K-Meleon exe can among other Mozilla GRE use XULrunner as GRE basis.
Xulrunner will come as as host application for the now separated XUL applications. Xulrunner should include
the with SM badly documented features also. & it should have them in an possibly better documented form.

btw. the Xulrunner or FFox chrome R also usable with k-m without great effort
(except that it needs differnt chrome.dll and chrome xpt - or added *rdf).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2006 05:25AM by guenter.

I think your departure from K-Meleon is right, but you're flaming the forum. Everybody knows that K-Meleon is not good for privacy issues. Statistics about K-Meleon use demonstrate this browser's easily detected among Internet Explorer and Firefox/Netscape/Mozilla users. The worst act for losing privacy's browsing with non conventional browsers. I were in China last summer and their preferences for browsing always include IE and Maxthon for blogging mainly. In five days of tour I see no Mozilla based browsers.

Yeah, this is the right way to spread your frustation among us.
Come on. Let's see how long your thread becomes.