General :
K-Meleon Web Browser Forum
How's about we have a sticky post here for Carson's versions thread and ask all the various people out there developing variation on KM 1.0.2 to post download and release info in that thread?
What do you'all think?
Tks,
N
Yes, I'd like to see a single post listing all the various versions, along with a link to download the file, and a short description about why that version is unique from the standard K-M.
This is a good idea.
@ enaitzjga,
Maybe we should really create a sticky that links to Carsons old versions thread
plus to newer ndebords comments/questions about versions thread?
I hate to temper with this old venerable thread (I fear i could damage it).
Else we sacrifice this thread here for experiments first?
The other thing both threads should be retained visible and that would consume much space. Maybe sort of sticky for annoucements and posts with amaranthine interest (maybe a closed post?)
Guenter, Enaitz,
If it is too much trouble to resurrect Carson's thread, we could start a new one and port over whatever is still relevant from his older thread. You can name it anything you think is appropriate: Unofficial K-Meleon builds ain't half bad! Or perhaps K-meleon Variations (VBG).
<<The other thing both threads should be retained visible and that would consume much space. Maybe sort of sticky for annoucements and posts with amaranthine interest (maybe a closed post?)>>
Whatever works is the ticket. Don't care how, so long as we can find a way to get a centralized posting of some kind!
<g>
N
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2007 05:25PM by ndebord.
Well I don't know what to say. Carson's thread was mostly about Fred's versions, K-Ninja and localized builds, and this is also what the Unnoficials Page are intended for: to show a clear list of alternative versions.
IMHO what we should do is encourage developers of alternative builds to publish them at the Unnoficials page, and maybe put a link to the Unnoficials page more visible on the web, maybe here:
http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?id=Download
enaitz,
The problem with the link at kmeleon sourceforge is that this forum is the central meeting point for K-Meleon and most visitors look here for information about the browser, not elsewhere.
Perhaps do both the link and the sticky??? (And make sure the word unofficial or variation is prominently a part of the sticky.)
N
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2007 05:35PM by ndebord.
Yes, would posting all that info in a sticky be good? That is what i am driving at.
It might also help to start a new thread because if we make a sticky link collection
we have some space.
Sounds like a good idea.
What about a "Current K-Meleon builds" sticky, and then there at the top the latest official and the latest beta. Then just a bit below it, a link to the unnoficials, containing a brief explanatiuon about what could we expect about unnoficials (I mean localized versions, Linux versions, etc).
Enaitz,
<<What about a "Current K-Meleon builds" sticky, and then there at the top the latest official and the latest beta. Then just a bit below it, a link to the unnoficials, containing a brief explanatiuon about what could we expect about unnoficials (I mean localized versions, Linux versions, etc).>>
That could work, so long as people don't get confused about what is official and what is unoffical. Perhaps two stickys???
As you say, Whoever does the variations or unofficials or whatever you want to call the efforts of the K-Meleon Community, could post a paragraph explaining their version. Then putting in links is a really good way of getting people to a website where they can get more detailed information or a FAQ about exactly what is being offered.
More ideas anyone????
N
I think I got misunderstood :-)
I didn't meaned to place a link to every unnoficial build with it's explanation at the sticky. I wanted to suggest to have just 3 links, one for the last official stable build, one for the last beta, and one (separated) link to the unnoficials page at the wiki (saying in half a dozen of words what the unnoficials generally are focused on).
If we used the sticky to relist all the unnoficials it would be difficult to update the list, that's why this list is available at the wiki, where the devs can update theirselves when they release a new build.
enaitz,
Ah, got you. Sure, 3 links, official, beta and unofficial works for me. Anybody got ideas on this?
N
That would be a good solution in my opinion as well.
Fred
Everyone,
While we're talking about sticky posts. Are there any other stickies that we should think of making permanent, in addition to the ones we've already discussed?
Tks,
N
It must be essential enought to be a sticky because the top space is limited.
Guenter,
Yes. Limited space is the key here. I mentioned it since I was the one who suggested the topic, I thought perhaps that there were other topics of equal importance that should be discussed.
Meanwhile, very nice job with the new sticky!
Congrats!
N
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2007 07:06AM by ndebord.
thx to kko who created the layout and had the idea for most of the text.
If any wants it altered or amended contact me.
I think we forgot to include the latest official and latest beta in the sticky.
Instead of modifying your sticky I've made a new one using yours as a base, would you please take a look just to decide which one fits best with our purpose?
@guenter:
@enaitz:
- The latest official download is available via the Download link to the left. We don't need a forum post for that.
- The latest development build does/will have its own sticky post. Doesn't make sense to create a sticky for the sticky...
I tink less is more here.
@ KKO:
I think you're completely right about licensing and forum support for the unnoficials. So on I have changed it on the sticky.
About the latest download and latest beta info, IMHO it's useful specially for newcomers who doesn't now where to start. And if we're placing a sticky link to the unnoficials why not to the officials too?
Of course this thing about stickies is somekind an experiment, we can delete all the stickies at once if people dislikes it or found it to be an annoyance. This is why is this thread opened, to discuss it and see what this forum users thinks.
@enaitz:
I haven't said anything about licensing. I guess, you missed the point:
I've explained why. In addition to that, I don't wont to see official and unofficial versions mixed up. That's more confusing then helpful.
I also think that two different stickies could clarify better
the status of the different versions for new users, as the
word UNOFFICIAL in capital letters gives a clear definition
of it.
Thanks to all for your work and regards.
Fred
Enaitz, KKO, Guenter,
Massage the sticky till you'all are happy, but congrats. It is a very good addition to the forum!
<vbg>
N
@ all I removed my sticky until we are finished with discussing.
Then Enaitz or me will alter/create a post to represent situation best.
@ kko - You/we do issue k-meleon as part official dev-team.
And additionally If we need: we issue as kko, guenter - nobody prevents any person to issue and support his private issue here - and we probably will help to answer questions - But we only promiss this for official builds (that is what i intended to say).
( I would hate to answer for bugs and complaints about ....
... and Andrew even excluded official test builds from support).
And just tell me how You want the formulation and I will alter it to the way You want. Untill then I leave only one sticky. I want this sticky (if possible) to be so that we all but especially our devs like it.
@ enaitzjga ( I deleted my post since we do not need two sticky posts)
Latest official and stable K-Meleon build: K-Meleon v1.02?
This is the K-Meleon 1.02en-US
IMHO: if we do it like You want, we must point at the national versions.
They are to me also official and issued for our community by their makers.
( and we should in future always refer to all issues by language )
Besides the K-Meleon1.02en-US I know of location or existence for newest: K-Meleon1.02de-AT, K-Meleon1.02fr-FR, K-Meleon1.02es-ES, K-Meleon1.02ru-RU
and a similar Chinese version by Hao.
If we list them it means we will have to edit Your sticky often. But that should be ok.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2007 05:43PM by guenter.
I havent's seen anything better then my original draft, yet:
<title>UNOFFICIAL K-Meleon Distributions</title>
<message>
Unofficial K-Meleon Distributions
If you are looking for unofficial distributions of K-Meleon or if you want to advertize your own one, please refer to the UKmeleon page in our wiki or to the K-MELEON BUILDS LIST in our forum.
WARNING
Responsible for unofficial distributions of K-Meleon are their respective issuers.
NO WARRANTY OF ANY KIND.
Use on your own risk.
</message>
It's short and clear and says it all. The more you say, the higher is the probability to say something wrong or to be misunderstood.
Do we need a link to the official download page?
IMHO: No. We have a link to the official downloads called "Download" in the green navigation bar to the left.
<------------------ green bar
This navigation bar is displayed on all pages of our website and also on all our forum pages. This structure, with a download link in the navigation section, is common among websites distributing software. Users are used to it.
Do we need a link to the current development build?
IMHO: No. These builds have their own sticky posts.
- When you visit the general forum and you see two sticky posts called "UNOFFICIAL K-Meleon Distributions" and "Kmeleon 1.1a2 Gecko 1.8.1" it is clear what is what.
- When you see two sticky posts called "K-Meleon Builds" and "Kmeleon 1.1a2 Gecko 1.8.1" it is less clear. When you are looking for the current dev build, you may be in doubt and choose the post "K-Meleon Builds" just to find out that the post "Kmeleon 1.1a2 Gecko 1.8.1" already was what you are looking for. So, what have you gained? Nothing, you were just mislead!
In addition to that you have to update the link whenever a new dev build is released. Or you even have to remove the link when there is no dev build.
NO fight, please!
I think that kko says truths as castles.
The important is don't create confusion in users.
Greetings for everyone.
K-Meleon in Spanish
Nobody would fight. ( we try to persuade each other )
I would not have altered the original draft, if I had not liked mine better... ok?
I altered sticky to kko's version. Hope that is OK for all.
Yes, nobody is fighting here.
Just looks like my reasons are not good for others as the reasons of others are not good to me. I really don't see the point to have an unnoficials builds advertisement thread on top of the general forums, without even a link to the officials, many people will finish thinking that the downloads shown at unnoficials page are the only downloads available.
Anyway and as it looks like I'm alone on this I'll have to surrender.
@Enaitz,
You would have had my blessings - else would not have removed my original post.
But IMHO kko has a point with his arguments ( the official versions are accessible anyway )
P. s. but I would still have liked to include the national versions.
Maybe we should take a GRE from on of the official test builds stuff it with 1.02 macros and ALL translations we have and put them up as 1.03 versions to the official download page.
Naturally no en-US version only the others :p
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2007 09:39PM by guenter.
General discussion about K-Meleon
need sticky post for versions
Posted by:
ndebord
Date: February 09, 2007 12:41AM
How's about we have a sticky post here for Carson's versions thread and ask all the various people out there developing variation on KM 1.0.2 to post download and release info in that thread?
What do you'all think?
Tks,
N
Re: need sticky post for versions
Posted by:
Peabody
Date: February 09, 2007 05:17AM
Yes, I'd like to see a single post listing all the various versions, along with a link to download the file, and a short description about why that version is unique from the standard K-M.
Re: need sticky post for versions
Posted by:
BenoitRen
Date: February 09, 2007 09:34AM
This is a good idea.
Re: need sticky post for versions
Posted by:
Anonymous User
Date: February 09, 2007 10:04AM
Re: need sticky post for versions
Posted by:
guenter
Date: February 09, 2007 05:11PM
@ enaitzjga,
Maybe we should really create a sticky that links to Carsons old versions thread
plus to newer ndebords comments/questions about versions thread?
I hate to temper with this old venerable thread (I fear i could damage it).
Else we sacrifice this thread here for experiments first?
The other thing both threads should be retained visible and that would consume much space. Maybe sort of sticky for annoucements and posts with amaranthine interest (maybe a closed post?)
Re: need sticky post for versions
Posted by:
ndebord
Date: February 09, 2007 05:22PM
Guenter, Enaitz,
If it is too much trouble to resurrect Carson's thread, we could start a new one and port over whatever is still relevant from his older thread. You can name it anything you think is appropriate: Unofficial K-Meleon builds ain't half bad! Or perhaps K-meleon Variations (VBG).
<<The other thing both threads should be retained visible and that would consume much space. Maybe sort of sticky for annoucements and posts with amaranthine interest (maybe a closed post?)>>
Whatever works is the ticket. Don't care how, so long as we can find a way to get a centralized posting of some kind!
<g>
N
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2007 05:25PM by ndebord.
Re: need sticky post for versions
Posted by:
Anonymous User
Date: February 09, 2007 05:23PM
Well I don't know what to say. Carson's thread was mostly about Fred's versions, K-Ninja and localized builds, and this is also what the Unnoficials Page are intended for: to show a clear list of alternative versions.
IMHO what we should do is encourage developers of alternative builds to publish them at the Unnoficials page, and maybe put a link to the Unnoficials page more visible on the web, maybe here:
http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?id=Download
Re: need sticky post for versions
Posted by:
ndebord
Date: February 09, 2007 05:26PM
enaitz,
The problem with the link at kmeleon sourceforge is that this forum is the central meeting point for K-Meleon and most visitors look here for information about the browser, not elsewhere.
Perhaps do both the link and the sticky??? (And make sure the word unofficial or variation is prominently a part of the sticky.)
N
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2007 05:35PM by ndebord.
Re: need sticky post for versions
Posted by:
guenter
Date: February 09, 2007 07:32PM
Yes, would posting all that info in a sticky be good? That is what i am driving at.
It might also help to start a new thread because if we make a sticky link collection
we have some space.
Re: need sticky post for versions
Posted by:
Anonymous User
Date: February 09, 2007 11:22PM
Sounds like a good idea.
What about a "Current K-Meleon builds" sticky, and then there at the top the latest official and the latest beta. Then just a bit below it, a link to the unnoficials, containing a brief explanatiuon about what could we expect about unnoficials (I mean localized versions, Linux versions, etc).
Re: need sticky post for versions
Posted by:
ndebord
Date: February 10, 2007 03:48AM
Enaitz,
<<What about a "Current K-Meleon builds" sticky, and then there at the top the latest official and the latest beta. Then just a bit below it, a link to the unnoficials, containing a brief explanatiuon about what could we expect about unnoficials (I mean localized versions, Linux versions, etc).>>
That could work, so long as people don't get confused about what is official and what is unoffical. Perhaps two stickys???
As you say, Whoever does the variations or unofficials or whatever you want to call the efforts of the K-Meleon Community, could post a paragraph explaining their version. Then putting in links is a really good way of getting people to a website where they can get more detailed information or a FAQ about exactly what is being offered.
More ideas anyone????
N
Re: need sticky post for versions
Posted by:
Anonymous User
Date: February 10, 2007 10:24AM
I think I got misunderstood :-)
I didn't meaned to place a link to every unnoficial build with it's explanation at the sticky. I wanted to suggest to have just 3 links, one for the last official stable build, one for the last beta, and one (separated) link to the unnoficials page at the wiki (saying in half a dozen of words what the unnoficials generally are focused on).
If we used the sticky to relist all the unnoficials it would be difficult to update the list, that's why this list is available at the wiki, where the devs can update theirselves when they release a new build.
Re: need sticky post for versions
Posted by:
ndebord
Date: February 11, 2007 07:36AM
enaitz,
Ah, got you. Sure, 3 links, official, beta and unofficial works for me. Anybody got ideas on this?
N
Re: need sticky post for versions
Posted by:
Fred
Date: February 11, 2007 03:23PM
That would be a good solution in my opinion as well.
Fred
Re: need sticky post for versions
Posted by:
ndebord
Date: February 15, 2007 04:39AM
Everyone,
While we're talking about sticky posts. Are there any other stickies that we should think of making permanent, in addition to the ones we've already discussed?
Tks,
N
Re: need sticky post for versions
Posted by:
guenter
Date: February 15, 2007 06:16AM
It must be essential enought to be a sticky because the top space is limited.
Re: need sticky post for versions
Posted by:
ndebord
Date: February 15, 2007 07:05AM
Guenter,
Yes. Limited space is the key here. I mentioned it since I was the one who suggested the topic, I thought perhaps that there were other topics of equal importance that should be discussed.
Meanwhile, very nice job with the new sticky!
Congrats!
N
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2007 07:06AM by ndebord.
Re: need sticky post for versions
Posted by:
guenter
Date: February 15, 2007 07:45AM
thx to kko who created the layout and had the idea for most of the text.
If any wants it altered or amended contact me.
Re: need sticky post for versions
Posted by:
Anonymous User
Date: February 15, 2007 10:11AM
I think we forgot to include the latest official and latest beta in the sticky.
Instead of modifying your sticky I've made a new one using yours as a base, would you please take a look just to decide which one fits best with our purpose?
Re: need sticky post for versions
Posted by:
kko
Date: February 15, 2007 11:42AM
@guenter:
That's not quite true. Or since when are official devs or members of the km team prohibited to issue unofficial versions? (Dorian did it, you did it, Alain still does it)Quote
Unofficial distributions of K-Meleon are issued under the GNU General Public License by their respective creators and not by the official K-Meleon Developers or the K-Meleon team.
That's not quite true either since the creators of unofficial versions are not prohibited to provide forum support or bugfixes for their versions. (Alain, Hao, Fred, Douglas, our Spanish fellows, ... all provide more or less forum support)Quote
With no forum support or bugfixing.
@enaitz:
Quote
I think we forgot to include the latest official and latest beta in the sticky.
- The latest official download is available via the Download link to the left. We don't need a forum post for that.
- The latest development build does/will have its own sticky post. Doesn't make sense to create a sticky for the sticky...
I tink less is more here.
Re: need sticky post for versions
Posted by:
Anonymous User
Date: February 15, 2007 12:20PM
@ KKO:
I think you're completely right about licensing and forum support for the unnoficials. So on I have changed it on the sticky.
About the latest download and latest beta info, IMHO it's useful specially for newcomers who doesn't now where to start. And if we're placing a sticky link to the unnoficials why not to the officials too?
Of course this thing about stickies is somekind an experiment, we can delete all the stickies at once if people dislikes it or found it to be an annoyance. This is why is this thread opened, to discuss it and see what this forum users thinks.
Re: need sticky post for versions
Posted by:
kko
Date: February 15, 2007 01:21PM
@enaitz:
I haven't said anything about licensing. I guess, you missed the point:
I have to repeat myself: That's not quite true. Or since when are official devs or members of the km team prohibited to issue unofficial versions?Quote
Unofficial distributions of K-Meleon are issued by their respective creators and not by the official K-Meleon Developers or the K-Meleon team.
Quote
About the latest download and latest beta info, IMHO it's useful specially for newcomers who doesn't now where to start. And if we're placing a sticky link to the unnoficials why not to the officials too?
I've explained why. In addition to that, I don't wont to see official and unofficial versions mixed up. That's more confusing then helpful.
Re: need sticky post for versions
Posted by:
Fred
Date: February 15, 2007 02:29PM
I also think that two different stickies could clarify better
the status of the different versions for new users, as the
word UNOFFICIAL in capital letters gives a clear definition
of it.
Thanks to all for your work and regards.
Fred
Re: need sticky post for versions
Posted by:
ndebord
Date: February 15, 2007 05:06PM
Enaitz, KKO, Guenter,
Massage the sticky till you'all are happy, but congrats. It is a very good addition to the forum!
<vbg>
N
Re: need sticky post for versions
Posted by:
guenter
Date: February 15, 2007 05:42PM
@ all I removed my sticky until we are finished with discussing.
Then Enaitz or me will alter/create a post to represent situation best.
@ kko - You/we do issue k-meleon as part official dev-team.
And additionally If we need: we issue as kko, guenter - nobody prevents any person to issue and support his private issue here - and we probably will help to answer questions - But we only promiss this for official builds (that is what i intended to say).
( I would hate to answer for bugs and complaints about ....
... and Andrew even excluded official test builds from support).
And just tell me how You want the formulation and I will alter it to the way You want. Untill then I leave only one sticky. I want this sticky (if possible) to be so that we all but especially our devs like it.
@ enaitzjga ( I deleted my post since we do not need two sticky posts)
Latest official and stable K-Meleon build: K-Meleon v1.02?
This is the K-Meleon 1.02en-US
IMHO: if we do it like You want, we must point at the national versions.
They are to me also official and issued for our community by their makers.
( and we should in future always refer to all issues by language )
Besides the K-Meleon1.02en-US I know of location or existence for newest: K-Meleon1.02de-AT, K-Meleon1.02fr-FR, K-Meleon1.02es-ES, K-Meleon1.02ru-RU
and a similar Chinese version by Hao.
If we list them it means we will have to edit Your sticky often. But that should be ok.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2007 05:43PM by guenter.
Re: need sticky post for versions
Posted by:
kko
Date: February 15, 2007 07:56PM
Quote
guenter
And just tell me how You want the formulation and I will alter it to the way You want.
I havent's seen anything better then my original draft, yet:
<title>UNOFFICIAL K-Meleon Distributions</title>
<message>
If you are looking for unofficial distributions of K-Meleon or if you want to advertize your own one, please refer to the UKmeleon page in our wiki or to the K-MELEON BUILDS LIST in our forum.
Responsible for unofficial distributions of K-Meleon are their respective issuers.
NO WARRANTY OF ANY KIND.
Use on your own risk.
</message>
It's short and clear and says it all. The more you say, the higher is the probability to say something wrong or to be misunderstood.
Do we need a link to the official download page?
IMHO: No. We have a link to the official downloads called "Download" in the green navigation bar to the left.
<------------------ green bar
This navigation bar is displayed on all pages of our website and also on all our forum pages. This structure, with a download link in the navigation section, is common among websites distributing software. Users are used to it.
Do we need a link to the current development build?
IMHO: No. These builds have their own sticky posts.
- When you visit the general forum and you see two sticky posts called "UNOFFICIAL K-Meleon Distributions" and "Kmeleon 1.1a2 Gecko 1.8.1" it is clear what is what.
- When you see two sticky posts called "K-Meleon Builds" and "Kmeleon 1.1a2 Gecko 1.8.1" it is less clear. When you are looking for the current dev build, you may be in doubt and choose the post "K-Meleon Builds" just to find out that the post "Kmeleon 1.1a2 Gecko 1.8.1" already was what you are looking for. So, what have you gained? Nothing, you were just mislead!
In addition to that you have to update the link whenever a new dev build is released. Or you even have to remove the link when there is no dev build.
Re: need sticky post for versions
Posted by:
desga2
Date: February 15, 2007 08:36PM
NO fight, please!
I think that kko says truths as castles.
The important is don't create confusion in users.
Greetings for everyone.
K-Meleon in SpanishRe: need sticky post for versions
Posted by:
guenter
Date: February 15, 2007 08:52PM
Nobody would fight. ( we try to persuade each other )
I would not have altered the original draft, if I had not liked mine better... ok?
I altered sticky to kko's version. Hope that is OK for all.
Re: need sticky post for versions
Posted by:
Anonymous User
Date: February 15, 2007 09:15PM
Yes, nobody is fighting here.
Just looks like my reasons are not good for others as the reasons of others are not good to me. I really don't see the point to have an unnoficials builds advertisement thread on top of the general forums, without even a link to the officials, many people will finish thinking that the downloads shown at unnoficials page are the only downloads available.
Anyway and as it looks like I'm alone on this I'll have to surrender.
Re: need sticky post for versions
Posted by:
guenter
Date: February 15, 2007 09:39PM
@Enaitz,
You would have had my blessings - else would not have removed my original post.
But IMHO kko has a point with his arguments ( the official versions are accessible anyway )
P. s. but I would still have liked to include the national versions.
Maybe we should take a GRE from on of the official test builds stuff it with 1.02 macros and ALL translations we have and put them up as 1.03 versions to the official download page.
Naturally no en-US version only the others :p
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2007 09:39PM by guenter.
English