General :
K-Meleon Web Browser Forum
IFox Smooth. A skin ported to K-Meleon by Grendel updated to 1.1.3 skin code and
addeed ID_PREFERENCES|Compact Menu button with installer.
Download-Link http://rapidshare.com/files/73724152/K-Ext1.1.3_iFoxSmooth1.1.exe.html
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2007 09:00AM by guenter.
4angelUPD1.0 small. A skin ported to K-Meleon by Rapido. 1.1.3 code.
Addeed ID_PREFERENCES|Compact Menu button and Java Script button and installer.
http://rapidshare.com/files/73725890/K-Ext1.1.3_4angel_Kl1.1.exe.html
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2007 09:46AM by guenter.
Gecko-Eye1.1. one of the custory deafult skins for German 0.9 translations & updates. The skin has by default German Privacy Bar Images - but also ships
alternative English and Spanish Privacy Bar. See the readme.txt on how to change.
Gecko-Eye1.1 download at Easy-Share.
Fröhliche Weihnachten, guenter.
Yours, sincerelly,
P.G.S.
HIIIIIIIIILFEEEEEEEEEEEE
wer weiß von euch an was günter exakt gearbeitet hat - bitte so das ich es verstehe.
wieso weshalb warum erfolgt später, nur soviel günter ist mein vater und gerade verhindert.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2007 07:27PM by guenter.
@katharina w.:
guenter hat in den letzten Wochen (eher Monaten) Skins/Themes für K-Meleon 1.1.x aktualisiert. Er sagte mir letztes Wochenende, es seien jetzt etwa 150. Eigentlich sollten die in unserem KMeleonThemesWiki veröffentlicht werden. Wir waren uns noch nicht ganz klar, wie das geschehen sollte (es würde sehr viel Zeit kosten). Er wollte wohl ein paar vorab hier ins Forum stellen.
Mehr kann ich im Moment nicht sagen...
Du kannst mir mailen: kko AT freakmail DOT de
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2007 07:30PM by guenter.
Dear fellows and K-Meleon users,
Over the last months, guenter collected a large number of previously published K-Meleon skins and updated them all for use in the current K-Meleon 1.1.x versions. He planned to provide these skins to the K-Meleon community as a kind of Christmas present. Unfortunately, shortly after he had started publishing them here, something crossed his way...
That is why I was drawn into action. Since it is far too much for me to get all submitted to the K-Meleon Themes Wiki in time, I decided to make the packages accessible at my website.
I would like to thank all who originally created these skins.
Also thanks to Alain who developed the K-Meleon Extension Setup.
Special thanks to Kati who made this possible.
And last, but not least, many thanks and best wishes to guenter!
I wish you all a merry Christmas 2007 and a happy new year 2008. Enjoy the skins!
Was notified about this from a fellow K-Ninja user. I will have to ask you to remove the K-Ninja themes from your website, they were created solely for K-Ninja users, and nor was permission asked nor granted by me to use them.
Al.
btw, all those Maxthon skins that have been "ported", I'm now wondering if guenter asked those guys for permission as well? I mean it's easy to take something, but harder to actually ask first, or so it would seem...
Many people don't know accepting a gift.
Where is your Christmas spirit Al?
This is a gift to ours friends K-Ninja users.
Themes haven't been modified, only updated to work properly with 1.1.X versions and our theme installer have been included to do instalation more easy.
Greetings and Merry Christmas Al.
Al seems ok to take, but not to share ...
A+
Mozilla/5.0 (x11; U; Linux x86_64; fr-FR; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Ubuntu/12.04 K-Meleon/76.0
Web: http://jujuland.pagesperso-orange.fr/
Mail : alain [dot] aupeix [at] wanadoo [dot] fr
Ubuntu 12.04 - Gramps 3.4.9 - Harbour 3.2.0 - Hwgui 2.20-3 - K-Meleon 76.0 rc
Dear Al.,
I've just waited for you and such a statement of yours!
www.geo|cities.com/grenleef/changelog.html (remove "|")
I'd like to remind you that you have licensed K-Meleon from us under the GNU GPL. Where, in K-Ninja, did the K-Meleon copyright and license notice go to? Where is your source code, Al.? I tend to say that, as long as you are so obviously violating the K-Meleon copyright and license, I will actually have to ask you to stop distributing K-Ninja!
As far as 'your' skins are concerned, K-Ninja is distributed under the GNU GPL. Here:
www.geo|cities.com/grenleef/themes.html (remove "|")
is no hint that 'your' skins are not GPLed or even that anybody has to ask you for permission. According to the copyright notes in guenter's packages (which still include your copyright notes), 'your' skins were all originally made for K-Meleon 0.8 and prior versions. Also, I don't quite understand how you can claim copyright for artwork that is obviously copyright Microsoft or Apple. You don't want to tell me that Microsoft or Apple have granted permission to you to use their artwork, do you?
Wow, finally the truth comes out. It would appear that K-Ninja has been a thorn in your side for quite some time now, otherwise why such a hefty reaction.
In respects to the themes I assembled both pre & post K-Ninja, in each instance if images or icons were borrowed from somebody elses themes, then I sent them a courtesy email asking if I could use their images etc, and then i waited for a reply. Hence there isn't literally hundreds of K-Ninja themes available, which would be quite easy for me to do. As it did take me literally hours of icon editing, and assembly I'd like to think that I have some say in the IP value of the themes I've put together. Clearly not in the free-for-all which is the K-Meleon world.
In the case of Shartoo I even paid a licencing fee for use of the icons, about $100 from recollection. This I was doing as a service to all the K-Ninja users out there from my own pocket.
As far as the GPL licencing thing well I just took over K-Ninja from where Mark Reaves left off. Whether or not it was in violation of any copywrite infringements I wasn't aware of. Personally for me it was just something to do in my spare time after being shunted (for use of a better word) from K-Meleon development. As such I decided to make K-Ninja a bit more unique for those who wanted to use it, thusly that is why I ported what themes I had over to K-Ninja.
As it stands it doesn't make sense to me as to why you would even need a K-Ninja theme on K-Meleon, and the only way it appears to me is guenter obviously decided to try and shunt K-Ninja into the background by taking what themes were there and making them available for K-Meleon users. The other themes I can understand, this I don't.
As for me this is just the icing on the cake, maybe now I can pull the plug on K-Ninja and obviously stop draining your K-Meleon downloads and users away from you. Nice to know you guys were lurking around in the background trying to figure out ways of ridding yourselves of the K-Ninja menace.
Also one last thing I've learnt from working on K-Ninja, you need to listen to what your users really want, rather than just plowing ahead and second guessing. Otherwise why would anybody need to use K-Ninja in light of K-Meleon v1.1.x or v1.5? Why would anybody even need to fall back on K-Meleon v1.0.2 even?
Think about it.
Al.
As for me this is just the icing on the cake, maybe now I can pull the plug on K-Ninja and obviously stop draining your K-Meleon downloads and users away from you. Nice to know you guys were lurking around in the background trying to figure out ways of ridding yourselves of the K-Ninja menace.
Just before I depart the K-Meleon scene for good, here's a breakdown of the "K-Ninja Menace..."
These stats are for index.html, none of the subpages.
Page views for the past week...
12\03: 233
12\04: 251
12\05: 284
12\06: 222
12\07: 295
12\08: 234
12\09: 241
Always varies, depends upon who's lurking around or not. Not all those views are from K-Ninja users.
Total views:
index.html 89920
Wow 89000 views since I first put the page up! But where did they all go?
Summary Report
This report highlights the overall page statistics.
Total page views to date: 89920
Highest monthly page views: 10586 (July 2007)
Most popular browser among site visitors: Mozilla/1.8.1.2pre (59.93%)
Visitors' most common screen resolution: 1024x768 (72.20%)
Top search engine used to access this page: www.google.com (100.00%)
Top search word used to find this page: "k-ninja" (75.65%)
Web address from which visitors arrived most often: Unknown
Visitor Profile Report - Shows the browsers and systems visitors use.
(Browser - Operating System - Screen Resolution - Color Depth - JavaScript - Java)
Browser type used by your visitors (in %)*
Mozilla/1.8.1.2pre 59.93%
Mozilla/1.8.1.4pre 17.18%
Mozilla/1.8.1.6 7.30%
Mozilla/1.8.1.9 6.75%
Mozilla/1.8.1.8 6.18%
Mozilla/1.8.1.4 2.40%
Opera/9.24 0.26%
As you can see, mixed bag really. And no statistics for Mozilla/1.8.1.11 which the latest K-Ninja was based on. As for the other Geckos they can be accounted by lurkers, users who "stick" with a preferred version of K-Ninja or K-Meleon, plus the odd drive-by or two.
So there it is, very humble indeed. Should also clear up that the name "Headbanging Sasquatches" was something that my girlfriend jokingly made up, as to the "heavy impact" K-Ninja was having :-)
Should also clear up the licensing text file was always included in the \K-Ninja2\ directory by default. All you had to do was look.
cya
Al.
@ ndebord:
You can send an email to Al in adress: grenleef AT yahoo DOT com DOT au
K-Meleon in Spanish
Another one bites the dust... Sad really, but something one has to grow habituated to if frequenting KM circles.
One can only do like the monkeys -- "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil," if you catch my drift. (9)
Al, quite a part of the skins that you're now claiming to be 'created solely for K-Ninja' were published earlier by you in the K-Meleon Wiki: Themes by Al
I don't see any 'Provided courtesy...' or 'Permission granted...' statements there. When you license something from somebody you have to clearly say so! How should third persons know about it otherwise? That applies to both code that you are using in K-Ninja, and artwork that you are using in your skins.
Whether you have some say in the usage of your skins or not, depends on how you publish them! When you publish them under the GPL, you grant permission to everybody to use/modify/redistribute them - without asking you for permission! As I've mentioned before, K-Ninja is published under the GPL. There is no hint anywhere that K-Ninja skins are not GLPd.
From my point of you, you cannot first publish skins in the K-Meleon Wiki (or wherever) without any hint at possible legal restrictions and then claiming them to be 'created solely for K-Ninja' afterwards. That is like making a gift and then demanding it back.
When you can provide any evidence that you've payed license fee for any artwork in guenter's packages, I will remove the affected packages from my site, of course.
That's not sufficient to comply with the GPL.
That's no apology. When you modify and redistribute GPLd software, the original authors can expect at least that you preserve their copyright and that you make yourself familiar with the terms and conditions of the GPL in order to comply with this license. Or is that asked too much?
Guessing about another person's intentions isn't very polite when this person isn't present and can't defend itself. Besides that, what you say about guenter can also be said about you. Think about this variation of your sentence:
As it stands it doesn't make sense to me as to why you would even need a K-Ninja, and the only way it appears to me is Al obviously decided to try and shunt K-Meleon into the background by taking the browser and clearing all traces of its actual origin.
Don't you think that you're somehow applying double standards?
I do. But developers can never make it right for everybody. Users' needs and habits differ to much for that. From my point of view, it can't be fair either that the needs and habits of a few 'extremists', who are just crying the loudest, have more influence on the development then the needs of the quiet majority.
K-Ninja is no menace to me, it's just one K-Meleon modification among a lot of others - and it's not the only one that is violating the K-Meleon copyright and license. :p
From my point of view, people who live in glass houses simply shouldn't throw stones. Maybe it would have been wiser to contact me through a private mail first...
foobarly,
I've been around KM for quite some time now and I've seen many a flame in that time. As KM has grown, it has always been what I would call the "prototypical mom and pop operation." Each new developer has adopted different styles of behavior. Some have been more open and tolerant than others. As KM is a small operation with generally one developer and a few helpers at any given point in time, the change in behavior can be quite dramatic and sometimes disconcerting in terms of community or continuity.
N
Would someone post on mozillazine.org that K-Ninja is, once again, an orphan. Unless Al isn't going to 'pull the plug', of course.
@ awww shucks:
Why don't post you in mozillazine.org?
Please you must read good:
You must aceppted it, K-Ninja is died ... or it's a zombie:
K-Meleon in Spanish
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2007 11:42AM by desga2.
ndebord,
I know what you say is true -- I learned that by watching (just don't assume that I haven't been around for almost as long)...
Now don't anybody think about flaming me -- I won't respond -- for saying that I love K-Meleon but don't much care for a certain culture that surrounds it.
@all: there's nothing to see here, please be on your way. Merry Christmas!
@ foobarly
All cultures are good if these contributed to the common project.
K-Meleon in Spanish
Hi,German KM users.
It is Christmas soon.
Was the Stollen ready?
I already prepared.
It should be good Christmas.
by following this thread one could get the feeling that the "christmess" in topic wasn't really a typo.
peace in our times folks.
cheers,
sensai
foobarly,
Not interested in flaming. I've made my points over time and will leave that there. Would hate to see K-Ninja go bye bye over this theme thing though.
N
From the law point of view, AL. can do whatever he want. If there is no copyright notice, then we have absolutely no right to edit or to redistribute them. There is nothing on the wiki saying that the posted content must be GPLed ( this have to change ).
Now the whole point is, K-Ninja is under GPL so you're inferring K-Ninja skins are also under GPL. You're only inferring, you can't be sure of it if it's not mentionned anywhere, and in that case you need to ask. Now I don't know the GPL enough to know how much you can use non redistribuable materials within a GPL product. AFAIK, you can't. The licensing have to be compatible.
Something is sure, it's not because you think someone stole from you that you can feel you have the right to steal too.
That's really conceited from you. K-Ninja is just K-Meleon with a different appearance and some additional features. Why do you think something like K-Ninja is possible? Because K-Meleon permit it and was done for that purpose. Do you think you can compare your work with the one done by Kmeleon's developpers?
No product can satisfy every users. You're sure to fail if you try to satisfy everyone. I'm a user myself, I worked on kmeleon for more than 2 years, and my major requests I had at the beginning are still not yet done.
To tell you the truth, I have no clue why people would prefer 1.0 over 1.1 because I've never heard about it. We have the BT and the Wiki; I've warned I'm not reading everything in the forum; I can easily forget stuff if it's not mentionned somewhere I can see it again. But I know one thing: the number of open bug in the BT has drastically decreased, and most of the issues mentionned in the wiki were fixed (how many are looking there anyways?).
kko can stop distributing the skins. (and after this I have to ask him to do so)
Al. can stop distributing K-Ninja.
Who win what?
If you have anything more to say, send me an email.
Merry Christmas to everyone.
General discussion about K-Meleon
Christmess will be soon
Posted by:
guenter
Date: December 02, 2007 08:47AM
IFox Smooth. A skin ported to K-Meleon by Grendel updated to 1.1.3 skin code and
addeed ID_PREFERENCES|Compact Menu button with installer.
Download-Link http://rapidshare.com/files/73724152/K-Ext1.1.3_iFoxSmooth1.1.exe.html
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2007 09:00AM by guenter.
Re: Christmess will be soon 2nd
2nd Posted by:
guenter
Date: December 02, 2007 09:00AM
4angelUPD1.0 small. A skin ported to K-Meleon by Rapido. 1.1.3 code.
Addeed ID_PREFERENCES|Compact Menu button and Java Script button and installer.
http://rapidshare.com/files/73725890/K-Ext1.1.3_4angel_Kl1.1.exe.html
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2007 09:46AM by guenter.
Re: Christmess will be soon 3rd
3rd Posted by:
guenter
Date: December 03, 2007 06:02AM
Gecko-Eye1.1. one of the custory deafult skins for German 0.9 translations & updates. The skin has by default German Privacy Bar Images - but also ships
alternative English and Spanish Privacy Bar. See the readme.txt on how to change.
Gecko-Eye1.1 download at Easy-Share.
Re: Christmess will be soon
Posted by:
colossus2
Date: December 03, 2007 03:02PM
Fröhliche Weihnachten, guenter.
Yours, sincerelly,
P.G.S.
Re: Christmess will be soon
Posted by:
katharina w.
Date: December 07, 2007 07:12PM
HIIIIIIIIILFEEEEEEEEEEEE
wer weiß von euch an was günter exakt gearbeitet hat - bitte so das ich es verstehe.
wieso weshalb warum erfolgt später, nur soviel günter ist mein vater und gerade verhindert.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2007 07:27PM by guenter.
Re: Christmess will be soon
Posted by:
kko
Date: December 07, 2007 09:04PM
@katharina w.:
guenter hat in den letzten Wochen (eher Monaten) Skins/Themes für K-Meleon 1.1.x aktualisiert. Er sagte mir letztes Wochenende, es seien jetzt etwa 150. Eigentlich sollten die in unserem KMeleonThemesWiki veröffentlicht werden. Wir waren uns noch nicht ganz klar, wie das geschehen sollte (es würde sehr viel Zeit kosten). Er wollte wohl ein paar vorab hier ins Forum stellen.
Mehr kann ich im Moment nicht sagen...
Du kannst mir mailen: kko AT freakmail DOT de
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2007 07:30PM by guenter.
Re: Christmess will be soon
Posted by:
kko
Date: December 09, 2007 05:47PM
Dear fellows and K-Meleon users,
Over the last months, guenter collected a large number of previously published K-Meleon skins and updated them all for use in the current K-Meleon 1.1.x versions. He planned to provide these skins to the K-Meleon community as a kind of Christmas present. Unfortunately, shortly after he had started publishing them here, something crossed his way...
That is why I was drawn into action. Since it is far too much for me to get all submitted to the K-Meleon Themes Wiki in time, I decided to make the packages accessible at my website.
I would like to thank all who originally created these skins.
Also thanks to Alain who developed the K-Meleon Extension Setup.
Special thanks to Kati who made this possible.
And last, but not least, many thanks and best wishes to guenter!
I wish you all a merry Christmas 2007 and a happy new year 2008. Enjoy the skins!
Re: Christmess will be soon
Posted by:
Al.
Date: December 09, 2007 07:42PM
Was notified about this from a fellow K-Ninja user. I will have to ask you to remove the K-Ninja themes from your website, they were created solely for K-Ninja users, and nor was permission asked nor granted by me to use them.
Al.
Re: Christmess will be soon
Posted by:
Al.
Date: December 09, 2007 07:57PM
btw, all those Maxthon skins that have been "ported", I'm now wondering if guenter asked those guys for permission as well? I mean it's easy to take something, but harder to actually ask first, or so it would seem...
Re: Christmess will be soon
Posted by:
desga_2
Date: December 09, 2007 09:14PM
Quote
Al.
Was notified about this from a fellow K-Ninja user. I will have to ask you to remove the K-Ninja themes from your website, they were created solely for K-Ninja users, and nor was permission asked nor granted by me to use them.
Many people don't know accepting a gift.
Where is your Christmas spirit Al?
This is a gift to ours friends K-Ninja users.
Quote
Al.
btw, all those Maxthon skins that have been "ported", I'm now wondering if guenter asked those guys for permission as well? I mean it's easy to take something, but harder to actually ask first, or so it would seem...
Themes haven't been modified, only updated to work properly with 1.1.X versions and our theme installer have been included to do instalation more easy.
Greetings and Merry Christmas Al.
Re: Christmess will be soon
Posted by:
JujuLand
Date: December 09, 2007 09:25PM
Al seems ok to take, but not to share ...
A+
Mozilla/5.0 (x11; U; Linux x86_64; fr-FR; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Ubuntu/12.04 K-Meleon/76.0
Web: http://jujuland.pagesperso-orange.fr/
Mail : alain [dot] aupeix [at] wanadoo [dot] fr
Ubuntu 12.04 - Gramps 3.4.9 - Harbour 3.2.0 - Hwgui 2.20-3 - K-Meleon 76.0 rc
Re: Christmess will be soon
Posted by:
kko
Date: December 09, 2007 10:16PM
Quote
Al.
Was notified about this from a fellow K-Ninja user. I will have to ask you to remove the K-Ninja themes from your website, they were created solely for K-Ninja users, and nor was permission asked nor granted by me to use them.
Al.
Quote
Al.
btw, all those Maxthon skins that have been "ported", I'm now wondering if guenter asked those guys for permission as well? I mean it's easy to take something, but harder to actually ask first, or so it would seem...
Dear Al.,
I've just waited for you and such a statement of yours!
www.geo|cities.com/grenleef/changelog.html (remove "|")
I'd like to remind you that you have licensed K-Meleon from us under the GNU GPL. Where, in K-Ninja, did the K-Meleon copyright and license notice go to? Where is your source code, Al.? I tend to say that, as long as you are so obviously violating the K-Meleon copyright and license, I will actually have to ask you to stop distributing K-Ninja!
As far as 'your' skins are concerned, K-Ninja is distributed under the GNU GPL. Here:
www.geo|cities.com/grenleef/themes.html (remove "|")
is no hint that 'your' skins are not GPLed or even that anybody has to ask you for permission. According to the copyright notes in guenter's packages (which still include your copyright notes), 'your' skins were all originally made for K-Meleon 0.8 and prior versions. Also, I don't quite understand how you can claim copyright for artwork that is obviously copyright Microsoft or Apple. You don't want to tell me that Microsoft or Apple have granted permission to you to use their artwork, do you?
Re: Christmess will be soon
Posted by:
Al.
Date: December 10, 2007 05:13AM
Wow, finally the truth comes out. It would appear that K-Ninja has been a thorn in your side for quite some time now, otherwise why such a hefty reaction.
In respects to the themes I assembled both pre & post K-Ninja, in each instance if images or icons were borrowed from somebody elses themes, then I sent them a courtesy email asking if I could use their images etc, and then i waited for a reply. Hence there isn't literally hundreds of K-Ninja themes available, which would be quite easy for me to do. As it did take me literally hours of icon editing, and assembly I'd like to think that I have some say in the IP value of the themes I've put together. Clearly not in the free-for-all which is the K-Meleon world.
In the case of Shartoo I even paid a licencing fee for use of the icons, about $100 from recollection. This I was doing as a service to all the K-Ninja users out there from my own pocket.
As far as the GPL licencing thing well I just took over K-Ninja from where Mark Reaves left off. Whether or not it was in violation of any copywrite infringements I wasn't aware of. Personally for me it was just something to do in my spare time after being shunted (for use of a better word) from K-Meleon development. As such I decided to make K-Ninja a bit more unique for those who wanted to use it, thusly that is why I ported what themes I had over to K-Ninja.
As it stands it doesn't make sense to me as to why you would even need a K-Ninja theme on K-Meleon, and the only way it appears to me is guenter obviously decided to try and shunt K-Ninja into the background by taking what themes were there and making them available for K-Meleon users. The other themes I can understand, this I don't.
As for me this is just the icing on the cake, maybe now I can pull the plug on K-Ninja and obviously stop draining your K-Meleon downloads and users away from you. Nice to know you guys were lurking around in the background trying to figure out ways of ridding yourselves of the K-Ninja menace.
Also one last thing I've learnt from working on K-Ninja, you need to listen to what your users really want, rather than just plowing ahead and second guessing. Otherwise why would anybody need to use K-Ninja in light of K-Meleon v1.1.x or v1.5? Why would anybody even need to fall back on K-Meleon v1.0.2 even?
Think about it.
Al.
Re: Christmess will be soon
Posted by:
Al.
Date: December 10, 2007 06:07AM
As for me this is just the icing on the cake, maybe now I can pull the plug on K-Ninja and obviously stop draining your K-Meleon downloads and users away from you. Nice to know you guys were lurking around in the background trying to figure out ways of ridding yourselves of the K-Ninja menace.
Just before I depart the K-Meleon scene for good, here's a breakdown of the "K-Ninja Menace..."
These stats are for index.html, none of the subpages.
Page views for the past week...
12\03: 233
12\04: 251
12\05: 284
12\06: 222
12\07: 295
12\08: 234
12\09: 241
Always varies, depends upon who's lurking around or not. Not all those views are from K-Ninja users.
Total views:
index.html 89920
Wow 89000 views since I first put the page up! But where did they all go?
Summary Report
This report highlights the overall page statistics.
Total page views to date: 89920
Highest monthly page views: 10586 (July 2007)
Most popular browser among site visitors: Mozilla/1.8.1.2pre (59.93%)
Visitors' most common screen resolution: 1024x768 (72.20%)
Top search engine used to access this page: www.google.com (100.00%)
Top search word used to find this page: "k-ninja" (75.65%)
Web address from which visitors arrived most often: Unknown
Visitor Profile Report - Shows the browsers and systems visitors use.
(Browser - Operating System - Screen Resolution - Color Depth - JavaScript - Java)
Browser type used by your visitors (in %)*
Mozilla/1.8.1.2pre 59.93%
Mozilla/1.8.1.4pre 17.18%
Mozilla/1.8.1.6 7.30%
Mozilla/1.8.1.9 6.75%
Mozilla/1.8.1.8 6.18%
Mozilla/1.8.1.4 2.40%
Opera/9.24 0.26%
As you can see, mixed bag really. And no statistics for Mozilla/1.8.1.11 which the latest K-Ninja was based on. As for the other Geckos they can be accounted by lurkers, users who "stick" with a preferred version of K-Ninja or K-Meleon, plus the odd drive-by or two.
So there it is, very humble indeed. Should also clear up that the name "Headbanging Sasquatches" was something that my girlfriend jokingly made up, as to the "heavy impact" K-Ninja was having :-)
Should also clear up the licensing text file was always included in the \K-Ninja2\ directory by default. All you had to do was look.
cya
Al.
Re: Christmess will be soon
Posted by:
desga2
Date: December 10, 2007 03:32PM
@ ndebord:
You can send an email to Al in adress: grenleef AT yahoo DOT com DOT au
K-Meleon in SpanishRe: Christmess will be soon
Posted by:
foobarly
Date: December 10, 2007 04:11PM
Another one bites the dust... Sad really, but something one has to grow habituated to if frequenting KM circles.
One can only do like the monkeys -- "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil," if you catch my drift. (9)
Re: Christmess will be soon
Posted by:
kko
Date: December 10, 2007 07:02PM
Quote
Al.
In respects to the themes I assembled both pre & post K-Ninja, in each instance if images or icons were borrowed from somebody elses themes, then I sent them a courtesy email asking if I could use their images etc, and then i waited for a reply. ... As it did take me literally hours of icon editing, and assembly I'd like to think that I have some say in the IP value of the themes I've put together. Clearly not in the free-for-all which is the K-Meleon world.
Al, quite a part of the skins that you're now claiming to be 'created solely for K-Ninja' were published earlier by you in the K-Meleon Wiki: Themes by Al
I don't see any 'Provided courtesy...' or 'Permission granted...' statements there. When you license something from somebody you have to clearly say so! How should third persons know about it otherwise? That applies to both code that you are using in K-Ninja, and artwork that you are using in your skins.
Whether you have some say in the usage of your skins or not, depends on how you publish them! When you publish them under the GPL, you grant permission to everybody to use/modify/redistribute them - without asking you for permission! As I've mentioned before, K-Ninja is published under the GPL. There is no hint anywhere that K-Ninja skins are not GLPd.
From my point of you, you cannot first publish skins in the K-Meleon Wiki (or wherever) without any hint at possible legal restrictions and then claiming them to be 'created solely for K-Ninja' afterwards. That is like making a gift and then demanding it back.
Quote
Al.
In the case of Shartoo I even paid a licencing fee for use of the icons, about $100 from recollection. This I was doing as a service to all the K-Ninja users out there from my own pocket.
When you can provide any evidence that you've payed license fee for any artwork in guenter's packages, I will remove the affected packages from my site, of course.
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Al.
Should also clear up the licensing text file was always included in the \K-Ninja2\ directory by default. All you had to do was look.
That's not sufficient to comply with the GPL.
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Al.
As far as the GPL licencing thing well I just took over K-Ninja from where Mark Reaves left off. Whether or not it was in violation of any copywrite infringements I wasn't aware of.
That's no apology. When you modify and redistribute GPLd software, the original authors can expect at least that you preserve their copyright and that you make yourself familiar with the terms and conditions of the GPL in order to comply with this license. Or is that asked too much?
Quote
Al.
As it stands it doesn't make sense to me as to why you would even need a K-Ninja theme on K-Meleon, and the only way it appears to me is guenter obviously decided to try and shunt K-Ninja into the background by taking what themes were there and making them available for K-Meleon users.
Guessing about another person's intentions isn't very polite when this person isn't present and can't defend itself. Besides that, what you say about guenter can also be said about you. Think about this variation of your sentence:
As it stands it doesn't make sense to me as to why you would even need a K-Ninja, and the only way it appears to me is Al obviously decided to try and shunt K-Meleon into the background by taking the browser and clearing all traces of its actual origin.
Don't you think that you're somehow applying double standards?
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Al.
As for me this is just the icing on the cake...
Think about it.
I do. But developers can never make it right for everybody. Users' needs and habits differ to much for that. From my point of view, it can't be fair either that the needs and habits of a few 'extremists', who are just crying the loudest, have more influence on the development then the needs of the quiet majority.
K-Ninja is no menace to me, it's just one K-Meleon modification among a lot of others - and it's not the only one that is violating the K-Meleon copyright and license. :p
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Al.
Wow, finally the truth comes out. It would appear that K-Ninja has been a thorn in your side for quite some time now, otherwise why such a hefty reaction.
From my point of view, people who live in glass houses simply shouldn't throw stones. Maybe it would have been wiser to contact me through a private mail first...
Re: Christmess will be soon
Posted by:
ndebord
Date: December 11, 2007 04:08AM
foobarly,
I've been around KM for quite some time now and I've seen many a flame in that time. As KM has grown, it has always been what I would call the "prototypical mom and pop operation." Each new developer has adopted different styles of behavior. Some have been more open and tolerant than others. As KM is a small operation with generally one developer and a few helpers at any given point in time, the change in behavior can be quite dramatic and sometimes disconcerting in terms of community or continuity.
N
Re: Christmess will be soon
Posted by:
awww shucks
Date: December 11, 2007 05:26AM
Would someone post on mozillazine.org that K-Ninja is, once again, an orphan. Unless Al isn't going to 'pull the plug', of course.
Re: Christmess will be soon
Posted by:
desga2
Date: December 11, 2007 11:41AM
@ awww shucks:
Why don't post you in mozillazine.org?
Please you must read good:
Quote
Al
maybe now I can pull the plug on K-Ninja and obviously stop draining your K-Meleon downloads and users away from you
Quote
Al
10th December 2007
K-Ninja development is now officially suspended. Please read HERE for reasons. If you have any problems with this then I suggest you refer them to either kko or guenter (aka sterntaler).
You must aceppted it, K-Ninja is died ... or it's a zombie:
Quote
k-Ninja web site
You can still stay in touch with Al. The True Underground Google group has been setup with this in mind.
Click on the link below to request an invite & JOIN!
K-Meleon in SpanishEdited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2007 11:42AM by desga2.
Re: Christmess will be soon
Posted by:
foobarly
Date: December 11, 2007 12:12PM
ndebord,
I know what you say is true -- I learned that by watching (just don't assume that I haven't been around for almost as long)...
Now don't anybody think about flaming me -- I won't respond -- for saying that I love K-Meleon but don't much care for a certain culture that surrounds it.
@all: there's nothing to see here, please be on your way. Merry Christmas!
Re: Christmess will be soon
Posted by:
desga2
Date: December 11, 2007 12:31PM
@ foobarly
Quote
foobarly
I love K-Meleon but don't much care for a certain culture that surrounds it.
All cultures are good if these contributed to the common project.
K-Meleon in SpanishRe: Christmess will be soon
Posted by:
ozanarisan
Date: December 11, 2007 03:50PM
Hi,German KM users.
It is Christmas soon.
Was the Stollen ready?
I already prepared.
It should be good Christmas.
Re: Christmess will be soon
Posted by:
sensai
Date: December 11, 2007 05:56PM
by following this thread one could get the feeling that the "christmess" in topic wasn't really a typo.
peace in our times folks.
cheers,
sensai
Re: Christmess will be soon
Posted by:
ndebord
Date: December 12, 2007 06:03AM
foobarly,
Not interested in flaming. I've made my points over time and will leave that there. Would hate to see K-Ninja go bye bye over this theme thing though.
N
Re: Christmess will be soon
Posted by:
Dorian
Date: December 12, 2007 07:14AM
Quote
kko
From my point of you, you cannot first publish skins in the K-Meleon Wiki (or wherever) without any hint at possible legal restrictions and then claiming them to be 'created solely for K-Ninja' afterwards. That is like making a gift and then demanding it back.
From the law point of view, AL. can do whatever he want. If there is no copyright notice, then we have absolutely no right to edit or to redistribute them. There is nothing on the wiki saying that the posted content must be GPLed ( this have to change ).
Now the whole point is, K-Ninja is under GPL so you're inferring K-Ninja skins are also under GPL. You're only inferring, you can't be sure of it if it's not mentionned anywhere, and in that case you need to ask. Now I don't know the GPL enough to know how much you can use non redistribuable materials within a GPL product. AFAIK, you can't. The licensing have to be compatible.
Something is sure, it's not because you think someone stole from you that you can feel you have the right to steal too.
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Al.
Wow, finally the truth comes out. It would appear that K-Ninja has been a thorn in your side for quite some time now, otherwise why such a hefty reaction.
[...]
As for me this is just the icing on the cake, maybe now I can pull the plug on K-Ninja and obviously stop draining your K-Meleon downloads and users away from you. Nice to know you guys were lurking around in the background trying to figure out ways of ridding yourselves of the K-Ninja menace.
That's really conceited from you. K-Ninja is just K-Meleon with a different appearance and some additional features. Why do you think something like K-Ninja is possible? Because K-Meleon permit it and was done for that purpose. Do you think you can compare your work with the one done by Kmeleon's developpers?
Quote
Al.
Also one last thing I've learnt from working on K-Ninja, you need to listen to what your users really want, rather than just plowing ahead and second guessing. Otherwise why would anybody need to use K-Ninja in light of K-Meleon v1.1.x or v1.5? Why would anybody even need to fall back on K-Meleon v1.0.2 even?
No product can satisfy every users. You're sure to fail if you try to satisfy everyone. I'm a user myself, I worked on kmeleon for more than 2 years, and my major requests I had at the beginning are still not yet done.
To tell you the truth, I have no clue why people would prefer 1.0 over 1.1 because I've never heard about it. We have the BT and the Wiki; I've warned I'm not reading everything in the forum; I can easily forget stuff if it's not mentionned somewhere I can see it again. But I know one thing: the number of open bug in the BT has drastically decreased, and most of the issues mentionned in the wiki were fixed (how many are looking there anyways?).
kko can stop distributing the skins. (and after this I have to ask him to do so)
Al. can stop distributing K-Ninja.
Who win what?
If you have anything more to say, send me an email.
Merry Christmas to everyone.
English