Hi guys, just a few quick questions :-)

1) Is there a way to have a lower menu bar (File/Edit/etc.)? I like to put the privbar beside it, but as soon as its set to "display menu bar as toolbar" it grows to 16px height. Preferably a setting in the skin folder...

2) Is there a way to show the tab bar in fullscreen mode, so that at the bottom there's no taskbar etc, only the tabs? Those netbooks nowadays are so extremley flat

3) How does one put a URL on a button, in the toolbar.cfg?? And can it open automatically in a new tab/window? So far I've only found a workaround via hotlinks, but that doesn't work if someone tries my skin and has different hotlinks than me ;-) (Example: Button with the translation menu on right click, but direct link to translate.google.com on left-click, to input own text)

4) I suppose there is no way to get to stuff like the F2-fullscreen or F2-javascript settings when right-clicking on a button, or is it..?



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2009 02:49PM by siria.

1) This isn't possible like you said as soon as its set to "display menu bar as toolbar" it grows to 16px height. This is minimun default menu toolbar height.
You can try to post a request for it in the "K-Meleon Improvement requests" forum.

2) Yes you can do it, set the tab bar to show at bottom in Preferences (F2) and define this new boolean pref in about:config url (or Edit -> Configuration -> Browser Configuration):
kmeleon.plugins.fullscreen.hide_tabsbar
Set his value to false.
Now you can press F11 key (to fullscreen mode) and only the tab bar is showed at bottom.

3) You cann't do it in toolbars.cfg, you need a kmm macro file that you can add with your skin files with the note to user that move the macro to his macro folder in his KM profile.

4) Right click on a button only can show menus, any other actions is not possible.

K-Meleon in Spanish



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2009 06:24PM by desga2.

Quote
siria
Hi guys, just a few quick questions :-)

1) Is there a way to have a lower menu bar (File/Edit/etc.)? I like to put the privbar beside it, but as soon as its set to "display menu bar as toolbar" it grows to 16px height. Preferably a setting in the skin folder...

2) Is there a way to show the tab bar in fullscreen mode, so that at the bottom there's no taskbar etc, only the tabs? Those netbooks nowadays are so extremley flat

3) How does one put a URL on a button, in the toolbar.cfg?? And can it open automatically in a new tab/window? So far I've only found a workaround via hotlinks, but that doesn't work if someone tries my skin and has different hotlinks than me ;-) (Example: Button with the translation menu on right click, but direct link to translate.google.com on left-click, to input own text)

4) I suppose there is no way to get to stuff like the F2-fullscreen or F2-javascript settings when right-clicking on a button, or is it..?

1) AFAIK, no.

2)You can install disrupted's extension or add the BOOLean pref: kmeleon.plugins.fullscreen.hide_tabsbar yourself and set it to false

3)You have to create a macro first and then refer to it in toolbars.cfg in the command line(2nd line) of the button. The user of your skin would also have to have that macro. macros(MacroName)|&Translation
How did you refer to your hotlink in that button?

4)You can attach any menu to a button, left or right.
The command for a left-click menu = rebarmenu(MenuName)
For a right-click menu, add |MenuName

Ex:

Menu{
rebarmenu(Compact Menu)|Preferences
Compact Menu. Right-click to view Preferences Menu.
menu.bmp
}

WHOW - two great expert answers, and even simultaneously!
Thank you!!

1) Menu bar height: Pity, but oh well. Just for curiosity I meanwhile took a closer look at it on my other notebook, the one with the tiny icons, there the menu height is about 32px. It seems all programs have the same menu height on a single machine, so guess now it's just some default system setting, rather than something fix in KM itself...

2) Tab bar in Fullscreen: GREAT!! *happydance*
That option should definitely be included in future KM versions, along with the Tab Close Buttons :-)

3) URL on a button: Only with macro? Eww... euh... am just a simple end user dabbling around with a skin, not a programmer... So pity too ;-)
jsnj: I found the hotlink command on that nice updated commands list, by desga, that came with the latest KM update tool :-)

4) Button with command on right-click: Okay, so no way too.
Actually, what I'd prefer most is to put a new "multi-menu" on some privbar buttons, especially for cookies and for javascript to group together all those shattered settings (permissions, view, clear, advanced settings in F2, cookie culler or manager etc., policy manager etc.). But that much I've gotten already, no chance without macro, so had quickly put it also in the "if I ever get around" drawer too 8)

But didn't know that rebarmenu thing - COOL!! Had completely given up hope for left-click menus after first switching tests on buttons. So it's actually possible, really great! :-))

Most menus seem to work that way, but after half a night of struggling again it seems restricted to "unvariable" menus....
It can't seem to correctly display variable stuff, like a changing windows list in View/Windows. It's funny also with switching User agent. With the menu only left it doesn't show the check marks. With the menu only right you can see which agent is enabled. With the same menu on BOTH sides, they both work! It's like the "left" menu can only echo what the "right" menu showed before. And it's possible to change the user-agent on the left side, but at the next left-click it still shows the "old" user-agent. Only after right-clicking again the browser shows the updated menu. Which of course will now be echoed left too ;-)
So, basically, the trick with the rebar-menus seems to work fine as long as those menus never change, like page-info or translations, but "hangs" with the windows list or the check marks in the user agent menu.

Still, it's already nice to have "normal" menus working now :-)
E.g. my translation button is now set to: rebarmenu(&Translation)|En&coding

-------------------

Alas, as usual, while struggling and solving one problem, others come up *sigh*
So, another question:

5) Defining one button smaller than the others in a toolbar, doesnt seem to work?

Example: Would like to add a small "arrow down" button at the end of privbar, so that every newbie can easily stumble upon the whole Privacy Menu, without even looking for it. This other button is on another bmp-line in my skin, and while the icon is shown correctly, the particular button size is completely ignored:
# PrivSettings(16,11){
# rebarmenu(&Privacy)
It's just as broad as all the other privbar buttons too :-(



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/03/2009 05:28PM by siria.

Minimum space consumption for small devices.

Choose a 16px skin that has a compact menue button. Or activate it by removing # at the line comenting it out (possible with Phoenity).

The bold lines except the ones pointing to the symbol.bmp are inside Phoenity.

And adapt the cursive part to point to an existing picture if You use the code with other skins.


Or create a button/bar like this for other skins.

Browser Con&figuration{
Browser Con&figuration{
ID_PREFERENCES|Compact Menu
View Preferences. Right-click to view Compact Menu.
optionshot.bmp[0]
optionscold.bmp[0]
optionscold.bmp[0]
}

}

Next choose menue bar as toolbar and choose hide it.

This reduces the hight of the bars to 16px.
Your menus can be reached via the button at right click.


You can additionally create a skin with smaller icons.
Tool Bar(16,16) {NAME OF TOOLBAR (WIDTH, HEIGHT) *default = (16,16)
You could create e.g. Tool Bar(14,14) or with even smaller icons.
You can also size buttons that way. Skinning tutorial is in wiki.

Next You set GUI Appearance - Full Screen e.g. at hide status and task bar.

Next F11. This gives maximum space inside Window. While all works.

p.s. the highest button gives hight needed by a bar and needed in that line.
You only get below menu writing size with icons.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/03/2009 07:19PM by guenter.

Quote
siria
But didn't know that rebarmenu thing - COOL!! Had completely given up hope for left-click menus after first switching tests on buttons. So it's actually possible, really great! :-))

Most menus seem to work that way, but after half a night of struggling again it seems restricted to "unvariable" menus....
It can't seem to correctly display variable stuff, like a changing windows list in View/Windows. It's funny also with switching User agent. With the menu only left it doesn't show the check marks. With the menu only right you can see which agent is enabled. With the same menu on BOTH sides, they both work! It's like the "left" menu can only echo what the "right" menu showed before. And it's possible to change the user-agent on the left side, but at the next left-click it still shows the "old" user-agent. Only after right-clicking again the browser shows the updated menu. Which of course will now be echoed left too ;-)
So, basically, the trick with the rebar-menus seems to work fine as long as those menus never change, like page-info or translations, but "hangs" with the windows list or the check marks in the user agent menu.

Still, it's already nice to have "normal" menus working now :-)
E.g. my translation button is now set to: rebarmenu(&Translation)|En&coding

Yup. I noticed that with the View - Toolbars menu back when I first included the left-click compact menu for InTheDarK. No checkmarks. It's an annoying bug.

Quote
siria
Alas, as usual, while struggling and solving one problem, others come up *sigh*
So, another question:

5) Defining one button smaller than the others in a toolbar, doesnt seem to work?

Example: Would like to add a small "arrow down" button at the end of privbar, so that every newbie can easily stumble upon the whole Privacy Menu, without even looking for it. This other button is on another bmp-line in my skin, and while the icon is shown correctly, the particular button size is completely ignored:
# PrivSettings(16,11){
# rebarmenu(&Privacy)
It's just as broad as all the other privbar buttons too :-(

It basically centers the smaller button within the bigger toolbar. You'll have to create a separate toolbar with just that menu button and drag it next to the privacy bar. Add the following pref:

kmeleon.display.toolbars_line

Set it to false and lock the toolbars. You should achieve the look you want, particularly if you're using a Windows Classic theme.

Thanx Günter! I see, but the prob is, smaller than 16px the icons get really too tiny, and although wanting space I'm at the same time also a huge fan of "short tracks", that is one-click access instead of e.g. two-way to the main menu :-P So I really prefer to have rather more than less buttons visible, incl. the main menu, but try to squeeze them a bit together. Like reduzing the height of main menu while keeping the font size the same. Well, you see already, am a bit a complicated person ;-)
But just for fun I modified now my skin for a moment into a 1-line-browser, LOL! Yeah it's quite funny, and if I'll ever get ready to post my skin, it will come in several configurations, one of it ultramini

Quote
jsnj
kmeleon.display.toolbars_line
Set it to false and lock the toolbars.

Hey, learning something new everyday - this is cool again!! Very nice look without the grid lines.... and even saves 2px per line, LOL! For the last years I had a beautiful sunset background, and quite often wished that stupid grid could be hidden, but never really assumed it possible. And now even simple gradients look nicer that way. Somehow smoother, quite elegant... :-))

Quote
jsnj
It basically centers the smaller button within the bigger toolbar. You'll have to create a separate toolbar with just that menu button and drag it next to the privacy bar.

Well, that's a great trick for single computer, but the effect is lost when posting the skin for others to download. Every time I change even the slightest thing the toolbars wander where they feel like, and so would this single button

It's really a pity that it doesn't work, those individual button sizes inside the same toolbar, although it's described that way in the toolbar.cfg and the skinning wiki. And the same with the claim that buttons without images would show up as text buttons. Nothing shows up at all without images! :-( That's definitely misleading, I'll remove this from the .cfg *grmpf*

Quote
siria
And the same with the claim that buttons without images would show up as text buttons. Nothing shows up at all without images! :-( That's definitely misleading, I'll remove this from the .cfg *grmpf*

Works for me. Remember toolbar buttons within a toolbar must be consistent. If there are 3 states(dead,cold,hot) for a button in a particular toolbar, all of the other buttons within that toolbar must have 3 states. So you can't have a text button and an image button within the same toolbar. But you can have image toolbars and text toolbars within the same toolbars.cfg file.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2009 10:10PM by jsnj.

OH... :O That works!! Thanx!
Just how does one know that, have never seen that?! Difficult to remember without having read it at least once ;-)

Lets see, but now it gets more complicated, perhaps there's also new hope to get image placeholders to show...? Never see any :-( Whether images are on or off or loading a page, and I've checked in F2 "image placeholders for missing images" and also tried the other two settings in the past. Took a look in about:config for "image" stuff. No chance. May have messed it some time, well possible, just how...??

Also there must be some trick to get that favorites-buttons-checkmark to work... No matter the setting in F2, named "Show button icons", that folder icon only seems to depend on the toolbar.cfg, if there the buttons are hidden or not. I thought it had worked some time in the past, but not sure...

Quote
siria
OH... :O That works!! Thanx!
Just how does one know that, have never seen that?! Difficult to remember without having read it at least once ;-)

From Phoenity toolbars.cfg:
# NO TOOL BAR IMAGES = TEXT BASED TOOL BAR WITH BUTTON NAMES FOR IMAGES

no means none. It doesn't say "some".

From Klassic toolbars.cfg:
# - If don't specify any images in the toolbar, it will become a "text" based
# toolbar, and use the button names in place of images

again "any" doesn't mean some.

It's an easy mistake to make though. You learn by trying and then asking. That's how I learnt. Documentation is too sketchy & scattered on the site. As soon as a couple bugs related to "macro-ized" toolbars & buttons are fixed and available, an easier way to customize toolbars can be implemented through macros. The current method of text editing is antiquated and too tricky.

Quote
siria
Lets see, but now it gets more complicated, perhaps there's also new hope to get image placeholders to show...? Never see any :-( Whether images are on or off or loading a page, and I've checked in F2 "image placeholders for missing images" and also tried the other two settings in the past. Took a look in about:config for "image" stuff. No chance. May have messed it some time, well possible, just how...??

Don't know about that one. Might be a filed bug, not sure.

Quote
siria
Also there must be some trick to get that favorites-buttons-checkmark to work... No matter the setting in F2, named "Show button icons", that folder icon only seems to depend on the toolbar.cfg, if there the buttons are hidden or not. I thought it had worked some time in the past, but not sure...

Not sure I understand. Both "Show Button Icons" & "Show a button to open favorites menu" work for me. Which folder icon are you referring to?

Quote
jsnj
no means none. It doesn't say "some".
again "any" doesn't mean some.

Okay. Persuaded I sure read it closely (or so I thought, oops), but this tiny aspect escaped me *blush* ;-)

Quote
jsnj
As soon as a couple bugs related to "macro-ized" toolbars & buttons are fixed and available, an easier way to customize toolbars can be implemented through macros. The current method of text editing is antiquated and too tricky.

Oh, that sounds promising - Great! Yes I'm sure many people are scared off from customizing the moment they realize this isn't quite as easy as in other modern apps. So, what could this mean.... while being easier to configure via a macro, will there still be the same cfg-files "under the hood"? (modifiable manually I mean )

Quote
jsnj

Quote
siria
7) Also there must be some trick to get that favorites-buttons-checkmark to work... No matter the setting in F2, named "Show button icons", that folder icon only seems to depend on the toolbar.cfg, if there the buttons are hidden or not. I thought it had worked some time in the past, but not sure...

Not sure I understand. Both "Show Button Icons" & "Show a button to open favorites menu" work for me. Which folder icon are you referring to?

It was a folder-icon in klassic skin, in Phoenity it's a star. Between "Home" and "History"-Icons. Same with the hotlist settings. So, either I messed it again somehow, or maybe it's again slightly outdated win98se, or maybe KM...

Which leads me to question 8 already
8) Switching between long/short tooltips? No idea, would that be possible without too much trouble...? (That is, included in a skin folder to download, not just for myself)
Thinking about this for two weeks, with rather little hope, and today I stumble about it in IrfanView! There's a "paint plugin" that has a blue ?-button, to choose either long or short context infos. In KM it could contain stuff like where to find this button-function in the menus, or tips what it's good for and such. This is aimed more at newbies... Problem is, regarding the translations it would be most useful to keep the short and long since known tooltips, but if some newbie would like more info they could get more, although only in english, since otherwise things would get too complicated (and personally I'm never 100% satisfied and keep changing around every word *sigh*).

Those options for the favorites: Show a button to open favorites menu and show button icons are specific to the favorites(Links) bar, not the favorites button on the main bar. That button is like any other in toolbars.cfg. It has to be there and uncommented to appear.

Rather than tooltips, I think a Tips & Tricks link to an html page like the updated commands list, under help, would be better.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2009 08:59PM by jsnj.

Quote
jsnj
Those options for the favorites: Show a button to open favorites menu and show button icons are specific to the favorites(Links) bar, not the favorites button on the main bar. That button is like any other in toolbars.cfg. It has to be there and uncommented to appear.

Thank you for crearing that up. I too thought that may have been a bug, but so insugnificant that I didn't care.

Quote
jsnj
Rather than tooltips, I think a Tips & Tricks link to an html page like the updated commands list, under help, would be better.

"Tips & Tricks" are scattered though out the wiki's. It would be nice if it were easier to locate them all including the unofficial items. When I find "Tips & Tricks" that interest me I add them, or thier links to a folder in KM's root folder for quick reference. I figure we cannot/should not rely on the developer's and coder's for everything as they too have their lives, etc. etc.

If anyone has the time and desire, they can probably create a combined collection and submit it to be considered for inclusion to the web site. Check out http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/contrib.php

Also, I find ExtremeTech very helpful. Most code, plugins, etc. for FF can be safely implemented in KM. Still, I would suggest implementing changes one at a time to be sure weather you have created the desired effect as too many cooks in the kitchen at one time can totally screw up the broth, so to speak.

Charlie

~~If it ain't broke, why screw it up?~~

Quote
jsnj
Those options for the favorites ... are specific to the favorites(Links) bar, not the favorites button on the main bar. That button is like any other in toolbars.cfg. It has to be there and uncommented to appear.

Okay, that explains it Never use the links bar, so never noticed.

Quote
caktus
"Tips & Tricks" are scattered though out the wiki's. It would be nice if it were easier to locate them all including the unofficial items.

Yep, that's exactly the problem (along with partly being being outdated). And there's no search function on the site! Or perhaps a pdf to download and search in it... I know one can use google to search the site, but that's not really handy. (That said, I can't do anything about it either ;-)

Hey Günter, tu mir nen GefaIIen und lass den Deqqen im andern Fred doch einfach verhunqern: Weist doch, nich füttern!! Das sinse nich wert, und die ham dich ja qerade deshaIb als williqes 0pfer ausqequckt, weiI de dich so herrIich schneII aufreqst. Is wirkIich nix persönIiches, und des sieht doch jeder BIinde, dass der einziqe Zweck aufmischen ist. Würd schon auch gern mein Senf zuqeben, aber hiIft halt bloß verhunqern Iassen, grmpf. AIIes andre Iiefert bIoss neues Futtter!

@ Siria, machnmerso. & IMHO solltman fabelwesen sofortaussperren.
Und mit Fred abschlußtu ik michimmerschwer.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2009 08:03PM by guenter.

Günter, duhast glaubn wortverwechslt, dasvorm männIe ischja reinersrpengstoff :-))

Hatt schon gezuendelt

Another skinning question, although with very little hope:

9) There is no way for something like "%ifmacro xyz" to define a toolbar button, or is it...? Only buttons for plugins seem to work optionally in the toolbar.cfg? Or any trick...?

Quote
siria
9) There is no way for something like "%ifmacro xyz" to define a toolbar button, or is it...? Only buttons for plugins seem to work optionally in the toolbar.cfg? Or any trick...?

I am not sure I understand. Do you wish for a button (click) to execute a macro or do you need a button to be defined by a macro?

The prob is, I've added a couple new buttons, and a few are for macros. So far it works, but if I post that skin and another user downloads it but doesn't have the same macros, he'll see buttons that don't work. Would be handy to have a way to automatically disable those buttons, for which there's no macro installed, but still show the others...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/2009 07:29PM by siria.

Quote
siria
Another skinning question, although with very little hope:

9) There is no way for something like "%ifmacro xyz" to define a toolbar button, or is it...? Only buttons for plugins seem to work optionally in the toolbar.cfg? Or any trick...? The prob is, I've added a couple new buttons, and a few are for macros. So far it works, but if I post that skin and another user downloads it but doesn't have the same macros, he'll see buttons that don't work. Would be handy to have a way to automatically disable those buttons, for which there's no macro installed, but still show the others...

Would be nice, but there's no conditional statement for specific macros, just ifplugin macros. Just put the button on its own toolbar. If the user doesn't have or want the button for the macro, he or she can just uncheck it under View - Toolbars. This also allows them the flexibilty to move it to a desired location without having to edit text.

Ah, really a pity. Frankly, I have already 2-4 new toolbars, and slowly it starts getting rather confusing to find specific ones in View-Toolbars ;-)
Would it make sense to post this in improvement requests...?

Quote
siria
Ah, really a pity. Frankly, I have already 2-4 new toolbars, and slowly it starts getting rather confusing to find specific ones in View-Toolbars ;-)
Would it make sense to post this in improvement requests...?

Sure

If having the macro is required, then have the macro create the toolbar and button.

Quote
JamesD
If having the macro is required, then have the macro create the toolbar and button.

I'm agree with JamesD, I think the right way to do that you like is create the toolbar with the buttons from the macro.
Read the documentation to made toolbars in macros ("toolbar plugin" use from macros).

K-Meleon in Spanish

From what I remember: some extensions have a bar with a button *

The bmp are normally stored in the folder ./skins/default.

siria's bars would extend this concept to a bar with a row of buttons.

---

* The buttons are usually 16 and 24 pix, whether the small or big button icon is used is laid down in the skins.ini, where the skin installers catenate info whether the skin uses big or small. I remember this because in 2007 I made installer exes for many skins with code adapted by desga2.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2009 04:39PM by guenter.