Off-Topic :
K-Meleon Web Browser Forum
Hello everyone,
this is just a sort of goodbye letter on my part. I am quitting those forums. Some of you may rejoice now, calling me all sorts of names while I leave - or won't say anything.
It has been an exiting journey so far. I am glad that this browser exists and that it is now revived thanks to the efforts of roytam1. His amazing work is the reason why this browser will continue to exist and prosper in the future. Thank you.
You may know that I have proposed to use the Goanna engine, as it is a fork of Gecko 38, and thus easier to implement. The Pale Moon team is not building up any road blocks for us by using Rust code, which makes any XP compatibility impossible. Thus, if XP compatibility is still desired, it becomes the only solution for K-Meleon.
I have criticized XP support in the past, because the OS has been unsupported since 2014. No browser and no antivirus solution is going to fix that. However, I have criticized XP support mainly because:
- the OS is unsupported and
- K-Meleon's manpower seemed limited at the time.
What do you do when manpower is limited? You drop what can be dropped, of course. The goal is to ease the developer's time schedule. Since support for OS versions like Windows 7 or newer must remain, too, this leaves older versions.
However, my proposal was even suited for those who like XP, as Goanna provides exactly what they want. Glad that I could help you as well.
I have no inherent hatred for XP, I was just saying that if anything has to be dropped, this would be it. It was an argumentation which had the future of the project in mind. Forgive me if this has come across in a wrong way.
A few days ago, I made the "mistake" to ask roytam1 whether or not he could bring back support for XP and Vista for the Waterfox project. This request was not made on my part, but I was asked to make it on behalf of Waterfox developer Alex Kontos. I was not in favor of bringing it back. But then, I knew someone who possibly could, so I saw no reason for hiding roytam1's existence. Why would I?
Then, completely unexpectedly, I was attacked by a user named "Yogi" in what I perceived was a normal discussion between roytam1 and me up until this point: http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?19,144023
Notice how I asked others not to interfere with this thread in the very first post? "Yogi" ignored that:
Apparently he wasn't able to grasp that I was not asking this on my own initiative, but on behalf of Alex Kontos, the Waterfox dev. Again, I was not in favor of that.
My reply can be found in the link. Granted, it wasn't nice and polite towards "Yogi". However, for being attacked as a "troll" out of a misunderstanding(?) or just for fun, I found it appropriate. I then received this message from a moderator:
So apparently it is OK to call me a troll, but it is not OK to defend myself against such unfounded accusations. Because I found this reply biased, I re-registered to the forum, so that I could defend myself, which was not possible before.
Anyway, I replied and asked why the Moderator has banned me, but not "Yogi" who was the first one to insult me without having even a reason for doing so. He couldn't grasp my request and resorted to insults. Apparently he is allowed to do that while I am not. "Troll" is a severe insult in my eyes. My reply was greyed out so that it was much harder to read for any interested party. Good job, moderator. Greying out things seems to be a strength of yours. :mad:
The moderator then replied:
Whether or not his claims regarding banned users are true is something I can't verify. Since there is typically only a small number of people around not banning anyone is not too great and accomplishment, eh?
Funnily enough, the moderator is accusing me of "not having a sense of measure"? Tell me, moderator guy, where has been the sense of measure when "Yogi" called me a troll for no reason? Yeah, I guess that was totally tolerable, at least in your eyes.
Get real, and I don't need "vacations" some random moderator in recommending to me in the most snarky way imaginable. Truly despicable, one-sided behavior.
Anyway, this was not the worst thing today. siria made things perfect. He posted this nonsense write-up, which I will dissect now, so that everybody can see through YOUR lies, siria. Have fun:
First off, siria, it came out of nowhere. I did neither ask nor intend for "Yogi" to reply, nor did he have any reason to reply, other than insulting me with "troll". You seem to misunderstand my intentions towards XP support. My claim was always that XP was outdated, and thus could be dropped, especially since this project was having manpower issues. I was not "fighting" against it, nor did I have any power to make "demands". I do neither develop nor finance K-Meleon, after all.
What is "fake news" is your claim that I have ever called keeping XP support in K-Meleon "irresponsible" per sé. What I was calling irresponsible was:
- the usage of XP in general, because it is an outdated OS.
So this claim of yours is a blatant lie. However, I indeed find it irresponsible to make XP support a priority --> IF <-- manpower is scarce. Since the OS is outdated, it can't be a priority by definition if this project is to have a future. You hit it lucky when the Pale Moon dev refused to implement Rust support, because if it were for Mozilla, K-Meleon would have reached a dead end as far as XP support is concerned.
Also, I was NOT "aggressively attacking" other members, at least not before I was the attacked party in the first place. Look at the picture "smallhagrid" has posted, and you have re-posted. This is a clear insult. Demanding me to be friendly after that is like hitting my head with a stone and then demanding that I say "thank you". You are out of touch with reality, my friend. What did you expect after the first insults directed at me were written down? A nice reaction? Luckily, you obviously have the biased moderators on your side, crippling my ability to defend myself. Lucky you.
Last but not least, it is a blatant lie that I have called for K-Meleon to become a "Pale Moon clone". I was just asking for the Goanna engine developed by the Pale Moon team to be used in the existing browser. Take a look at the Goanna builds of roytam1: They are using this engine at the moment! Does that make those builds "Pale Moon clones"? Of course not. By that definition, K-Meleon would have been a "Firefox clone" up unto this point, as it shares its engine with Firefox. Think about that.
-------------------------------
Again, thanks for your understanding. The K-Meleon project was reborn because the proposal I made was realized by roytam1... Seems to have been a good idea, right? Some people were great to work (and argue) with, namely roytam1 himself and rodocop and callahan. I enjoy how the K-Meleon project continues to prosper, and would like it to further succeed. I came here with the intention to help with that.
However, I am fed up with being insulted, attacked, lied about, and - last but not least - banned. I can use my time in more useful ways. I tried to be a productive member of the community, but apparently, for some unknown reason, I have made myself enemies here who have the support of the moderators. They are allowed to insult me without consequences. This is eliminating my reason to stay, as I expect a minimum of respect from anyone I am talking to.
Know that it was my proposal and - far more than that - the tremendous efforts of roytam1 which revived the K-Meleon project. And this is my price, now. Apart from a few decent guys around here, which are not to blame, I know no community more ungrateful than this one.
If you ban me now, fine. I have said what I had to say. I won't circumvent the biased moderators any longer. It's just not worth the effort. Just wanted to let you know why I leave and not have persons like Yogi, siria, or even the moderator to have the last say in the matter.
@moderators: You can now close all three of my accounts, including the two ones you forced my hand to register. I know you have been eagerly waiting for that.
Nice holidays to all of you, anyway.
Pale as the Moon
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2017 07:57PM by PaleastheMoon3.
Sorry guys, a bit more truth must be allowed here too:
Except that the impression you gave in the original post was exactly the other way around:
http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?19,144023
Yes right, you were not asking on your own initiative, and you were not in favor of bringing XP back...
A "defense" with a FLOOD of personal attacks, insults and lies. In return to just those not-so-nice words of him (which he wrote remembering well your first round of attacks in earlier postings):
you replied to him with some fifteen lines, a waterfall of accusations in THAT tone:
And just to bring this closer to truth too, YOUR only contribution was to first bringing Goanna into discussion, which probably would have happened sooner or later anyway, considering the MSFN-forum thread, but you may have sped it up a little. While Yogi has contributed countless hours of help and support to KM over many years.
Regarding your other twisted claims about your earlier postings, luckily everyone bored enough can still verify them in the original thread.
Dear
"Pale as the Moon as numbered as you want"
our forum is as free as you can post here even without registration - true.
So no one of us here hadn't the intention to make you a sort of 'enemy' or 'unwanted person'. Never.
Here we sometimes use some irony and some jokes about each other. All we are just people with their emotions and feelings. But none of us never have got this down as much as directly insulting other comrades.
Even 'troll' is modern web mem not a direct insult. So we are full of sorrow that you wasn't able to hold yourself within the bounds of politeness and measure.
Our greatest wish is that everyone here who could make something useful for browser - will do it in peace and comradeship with other members of community. So all we wish you in 2018 is to be more polite and accurate in 'defending' your point of view.
This is not a war. This is not even a Champions League final. It's just a cooperating project of partial same-thinkers.
Please, don't destroy this fragile feeling of solidarity...
This is coming from a guy who did not hesitate one second to make false claims on my expense when it suited him. Laughable.
Except that this is not true. It has been a goal of the Waterfox dev to reintroduce XP/Vista support. I just helped him by establishing contact with roytam1. My opinion was not of any importance here. You refuse to get that.
Exactly. These are the facts, which you refuse to acknowledge. Attacking me and lying about me is of greater importance to you. You intermingle your personal disapproval of me with the truth. Not good.
A not-so-nice reply for initial not-so-nice words, seems appropriate. You are even worse than Yogi, because you are claiming that i have said things I could not even remotely think of. Like "making a Pale Moon clone out of K-Meleon". I have never said that. Just more lies on your part.
Yeah, and? A not-so-nice reply was to expected after insulting me. He knew what he was getting into.
Assumptions and speculation right there.
siria, this is how it went:
1) I made my proposal.
2) Some guy found the MSFN forums.
3) The same guy introduced roytam1 to K-Meleon and asked for his support.
4) roytam1 started out his work in the very thread I've started, which was then splitted into a new subforum.
Nobody except for me has brought it up. if you guys are oh so clever, then I wonder where I can find an earlier Goanna thread than mine?
Except that he had no idea how K-Meleon could move forward and even after I made my proposal kept crying me a river about losing Gecko. If it was for him, K-Meleon would have went defunct sooner or later.
Oh, I have no problem with people verifying things. You should have. Please show me:
1) The quote in which I wanted K-Meleon to become a Pale Moon clone.
2) Where I have insulted people without having previously been insulted.
3) Where I have said that XP support must be dropped because K-Meleon could not be run on XP.
Your lies keep crumbling down.
You and others are the exact reason why I withdraw from this board. Your disapproval of me as a person undermines your willingness to tell the truth about me. You are making false claims. How spiteful.
However, you have the backing of the moderators, who like to censor me when I speak up against your false/unfounded claims and insults. Thus, a discussion makes little to no sense.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2017 09:55PM by PaleastheMoon3.
Yeah, the numbers are a product of biased moderators shutting down my accounts. Not my fault.
It was not your intention, no. But people like smallhagrid, Yogi, siria did not treat me respectfully to begin with.
You forget that I was the one getting ambushed just for stating that XP is outdated. This is not even a reason to insult someone IMHO. However, I have learned otherwise in these forums. Sorry to say.
"Troll" implies that I was just coming here to cause unrest for my own pleasure. This is false and you know it. It is a lie, and extremely spiteful. Before I return to the "bounds of politeness" those who can't discuss with others without slights against personal honor should do.
Sure, if others treat me with respect to begin with. Without respect I see no reason for politeness. This is not a one way street. Never has been, and won't be in 2018.
You tell me. I was ambushed for making the factually true claim that XP is outdated. This is no reason to insult somebody. Tell this to the guys who can't be bothered to treat those they disagree with with respect.
Yeah, of course it has to be ME. I made a proposal which turned out to be the way forward, and was greeted with "troll". Great solidarity, now all of you are profiting from this development. Where can I find your solidarity for the solidarity I had with you? Where?
I understand you. And this is not MY community.
I'm even not the oldtimer here.
Personally I would welcome you (and everyone else who wishes K-Meleon the best) now and forever.
But it is important not only WHAT we want and do but also HOW we do that.
Your reactions were TOO unacceptable in terms of words used, sorry.
Everyone here could be right and could be wrong, but no one should get so rough. Sorry once again but the community unwritten rules are so everywhere. Not only here.
Please, find some humbleness inside you and just forgive your opponents on the eve of great holiday. And Great Lizard will bless you too!
But then again, I was having a nice conversation with roytam1, up until the point Yogi joined in order to cause unrest. I was defending myself (in words I found appropriate for his behavior - he had no problem to severely disrupt a nice discussion I was having, slighting me in the process) and was getting banned by biased moderators.
I understand that this is a small community, and people are likely knowing each other by now. People like me don't have it easy here. But when it comes to people insulting me without any consequences, my patience reaches its end. Some are more equal than others here, as it seems. The moderators should show some decency and just admit that. (But then again: Who does admit to make unfair decisions?)
I just found the common sense in me to quit this forum. Makes no sense to stay. People are making false claims about me, are allowed to slight me. But then I react and the moderator intervenes. Laughable. The moderator is unfit for the job, clearly. His bias is way too obvious.
My proposal turned out to be a way out for the project, and was discussed somewhat intensively. So my presence was not entirely useless, at least. However, I could have done without people blowing up just because somebody has a realistic view on an ancient OS.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2017 10:35PM by PaleastheMoon3.
@PaleastheMoon3,
I can sure you that both @Siria and @Rodocop are two of the most respectable members that you can find here at this forum. And @Yogi is a nice member too. I didn't expected the way you have talked to them because I thought you were a clever and educated user. So wrong by my side, what a bad surprise having in mind the good things you have proposed about the Goanna engine. When I was wrong, I apologized sincerely. It's easy, man. Imho you have lost the best opportunity to demonstrate that you were really clever: you should have followed the recommendation of @Rodocop of two weeks of silence. Both @Siria and @Rodocop have more patience than you deserve, and if you were in silence or simply apologize they both will forget your nonsense discussion. Because silence can't damage faster than a bad explanation and they are good people. Just my two cents, of course.
Sorry for the edits, it's a complex translation for me.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/2017 01:27AM by J.G..
Glad this one quit. In my opinion Off topic discussions must not be allowed. We need KMeleon to last long and be No1 Browser.. Thats all...
He not only fell foul with @Siria and @Rodocop... - some time ago with several others and me too.
We do not give visible ranks here & unless told You would not even know who is moderator contributor or developer here. So maybe he could not know who is who.
But this is not the first forum and community where he was banned.
Pale as the Moon
Banned user
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat, 11 Feb 2017, 21:51
source: https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=14846&sid=600646c685a9d310783de4445d1d3a02&start=180#p114851
And there he also collided with some of the most respected and resourceful folks.
If a long time contributor to our Forum says farewell after a flame war it is good that he tells the others that and why he quit. At least I would like to know especially if I am the reason. So that I can change my ways.
But after 9619 posts I am not really interested any more to know why a one day fly (Eintagsfliege) - that contributed nothing useful - went.
And IMHO the one day fly is highly intoxicated by the unadulterated exuberance of its own supreme importance if it tells others and me:
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/2017 05:53PM by guenter.
I followed and even PM with you @PaleAsTheMoon3 on several other forums. Hell I even knew you by first name.
What I would like to know is why you completely disappeared and ignored my PMs over the last few months. Yet I still saw you at Waterfox and MozillaZine. I was left wondering what the hell I ever did (or said). I was just like "Poof" you're gone! I mean fine, it's just technical discussion and the like, but I really stood behind your technical beliefs and mindset.
I wish you well in your journey.
All which isn't K-Meleon related.
Just wanted to let you know that I quit and why...
Posted by:
PaleastheMoon3
Date: December 27, 2017 07:32PM
Hello everyone,
this is just a sort of goodbye letter on my part. I am quitting those forums. Some of you may rejoice now, calling me all sorts of names while I leave - or won't say anything.
It has been an exiting journey so far. I am glad that this browser exists and that it is now revived thanks to the efforts of roytam1. His amazing work is the reason why this browser will continue to exist and prosper in the future. Thank you.
You may know that I have proposed to use the Goanna engine, as it is a fork of Gecko 38, and thus easier to implement. The Pale Moon team is not building up any road blocks for us by using Rust code, which makes any XP compatibility impossible. Thus, if XP compatibility is still desired, it becomes the only solution for K-Meleon.
I have criticized XP support in the past, because the OS has been unsupported since 2014. No browser and no antivirus solution is going to fix that. However, I have criticized XP support mainly because:
- the OS is unsupported and
- K-Meleon's manpower seemed limited at the time.
What do you do when manpower is limited? You drop what can be dropped, of course. The goal is to ease the developer's time schedule. Since support for OS versions like Windows 7 or newer must remain, too, this leaves older versions.
However, my proposal was even suited for those who like XP, as Goanna provides exactly what they want. Glad that I could help you as well.
I have no inherent hatred for XP, I was just saying that if anything has to be dropped, this would be it. It was an argumentation which had the future of the project in mind. Forgive me if this has come across in a wrong way.
A few days ago, I made the "mistake" to ask roytam1 whether or not he could bring back support for XP and Vista for the Waterfox project. This request was not made on my part, but I was asked to make it on behalf of Waterfox developer Alex Kontos. I was not in favor of bringing it back. But then, I knew someone who possibly could, so I saw no reason for hiding roytam1's existence. Why would I?
Then, completely unexpectedly, I was attacked by a user named "Yogi" in what I perceived was a normal discussion between roytam1 and me up until this point: http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?19,144023
Notice how I asked others not to interfere with this thread in the very first post? "Yogi" ignored that:
Quote
Yogi
@Pale as the Moon
Wonder what kind of games are you playing here?
One of your first posts you made after your apparition on these forums:
And now you are asking for Windows XP support in Waterfox?Quote
Pale as the Moon
With all due respect, I don't think keeping support for Windows XP (and Vista, for that matter) is a responsible decision nowadays. Microsoft dropped support for this OS in 2014 and it hasn't received any security updates ever since. Windows XP is one huge security concern and no browser or AV software is going to fix the inherent security issues of the OS. I wouldn't even dare going online with it. Every OS before Windows 7 (the oldest OS Microsoft currently supports) should be dropped as of now.
One might wonder where are you trolling - over there or here now.
Apparently he wasn't able to grasp that I was not asking this on my own initiative, but on behalf of Alex Kontos, the Waterfox dev. Again, I was not in favor of that.
My reply can be found in the link. Granted, it wasn't nice and polite towards "Yogi". However, for being attacked as a "troll" out of a misunderstanding(?) or just for fun, I found it appropriate. I then received this message from a moderator:
Quote
MODERATOR
User Pale as the Moon banned for 2 weeks for multiple violations of community customs and netiquette
(agressive style of communication, numerous insults)
Next time ban will be final one.
So apparently it is OK to call me a troll, but it is not OK to defend myself against such unfounded accusations. Because I found this reply biased, I re-registered to the forum, so that I could defend myself, which was not possible before.
Anyway, I replied and asked why the Moderator has banned me, but not "Yogi" who was the first one to insult me without having even a reason for doing so. He couldn't grasp my request and resorted to insults. Apparently he is allowed to do that while I am not. "Troll" is a severe insult in my eyes. My reply was greyed out so that it was much harder to read for any interested party. Good job, moderator. Greying out things seems to be a strength of yours. :mad:
The moderator then replied:
Quote
MODERATOR
PLEASE STOP. Do not force us to block you in really aggresive way. You are the first non-spamming user banned for at least 6 years. You make this happen, not Yogi or somebody else.
Your problem is about sense of measure. Think about it, please.
So just have a vacation. And let us too.
Anyway you shouldn't discuss this here. Good luck. SEE YOU IN 2018.
Whether or not his claims regarding banned users are true is something I can't verify. Since there is typically only a small number of people around not banning anyone is not too great and accomplishment, eh?
Funnily enough, the moderator is accusing me of "not having a sense of measure"? Tell me, moderator guy, where has been the sense of measure when "Yogi" called me a troll for no reason? Yeah, I guess that was totally tolerable, at least in your eyes.
Get real, and I don't need "vacations" some random moderator in recommending to me in the most snarky way imaginable. Truly despicable, one-sided behavior.
Anyway, this was not the worst thing today. siria made things perfect. He posted this nonsense write-up, which I will dissect now, so that everybody can see through YOUR lies, siria. Have fun:
Quote
siria
For clueless readers:
Be careful what you believe. Unlike the impression this oh so innocent user is trying to pretend, this does not come "out of nowhere", nor are his attacks even remotely "in the same tone". This is fake news. In reality he/she has a history of trolling before. His current critic and victim is by no means the first one to have it named so, and be flooded with endless insults and hate. Also as mentioned above, PATM has an impressive history of fighting long and passionately AGAINST keeping XP-compatibility for K-Meleon, calling this all sorts of irresponsibility and aggressively attacking other members who resist his/her demand that KM becomes a mere clone of Palemoon.
To borrow again what yet another KM-regular wisely posted about PATM in the past:
- derisive picture not worth posting -
First off, siria, it came out of nowhere. I did neither ask nor intend for "Yogi" to reply, nor did he have any reason to reply, other than insulting me with "troll". You seem to misunderstand my intentions towards XP support. My claim was always that XP was outdated, and thus could be dropped, especially since this project was having manpower issues. I was not "fighting" against it, nor did I have any power to make "demands". I do neither develop nor finance K-Meleon, after all.
What is "fake news" is your claim that I have ever called keeping XP support in K-Meleon "irresponsible" per sé. What I was calling irresponsible was:
- the usage of XP in general, because it is an outdated OS.
So this claim of yours is a blatant lie. However, I indeed find it irresponsible to make XP support a priority --> IF <-- manpower is scarce. Since the OS is outdated, it can't be a priority by definition if this project is to have a future. You hit it lucky when the Pale Moon dev refused to implement Rust support, because if it were for Mozilla, K-Meleon would have reached a dead end as far as XP support is concerned.
Also, I was NOT "aggressively attacking" other members, at least not before I was the attacked party in the first place. Look at the picture "smallhagrid" has posted, and you have re-posted. This is a clear insult. Demanding me to be friendly after that is like hitting my head with a stone and then demanding that I say "thank you". You are out of touch with reality, my friend. What did you expect after the first insults directed at me were written down? A nice reaction? Luckily, you obviously have the biased moderators on your side, crippling my ability to defend myself. Lucky you.
Last but not least, it is a blatant lie that I have called for K-Meleon to become a "Pale Moon clone". I was just asking for the Goanna engine developed by the Pale Moon team to be used in the existing browser. Take a look at the Goanna builds of roytam1: They are using this engine at the moment! Does that make those builds "Pale Moon clones"? Of course not. By that definition, K-Meleon would have been a "Firefox clone" up unto this point, as it shares its engine with Firefox. Think about that.
-------------------------------
Again, thanks for your understanding. The K-Meleon project was reborn because the proposal I made was realized by roytam1... Seems to have been a good idea, right? Some people were great to work (and argue) with, namely roytam1 himself and rodocop and callahan. I enjoy how the K-Meleon project continues to prosper, and would like it to further succeed. I came here with the intention to help with that.
However, I am fed up with being insulted, attacked, lied about, and - last but not least - banned. I can use my time in more useful ways. I tried to be a productive member of the community, but apparently, for some unknown reason, I have made myself enemies here who have the support of the moderators. They are allowed to insult me without consequences. This is eliminating my reason to stay, as I expect a minimum of respect from anyone I am talking to.
Know that it was my proposal and - far more than that - the tremendous efforts of roytam1 which revived the K-Meleon project. And this is my price, now. Apart from a few decent guys around here, which are not to blame, I know no community more ungrateful than this one.
If you ban me now, fine. I have said what I had to say. I won't circumvent the biased moderators any longer. It's just not worth the effort. Just wanted to let you know why I leave and not have persons like Yogi, siria, or even the moderator to have the last say in the matter.
@moderators: You can now close all three of my accounts, including the two ones you forced my hand to register. I know you have been eagerly waiting for that.
Nice holidays to all of you, anyway.
Pale as the Moon
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2017 07:57PM by PaleastheMoon3.
Re: Just wanted to let you know that I quit and why...
Posted by:
siria
Date: December 27, 2017 08:58PM
Sorry guys, a bit more truth must be allowed here too:
Quote
PaleastheMoon3
A few days ago, I made the "mistake" to ask roytam1 whether or not he could bring back support for XP and Vista for the Waterfox project. This request was not made on my part, but I was asked to make it on behalf of Waterfox developer Alex Kontos. I was not in favor of bringing it back.
(...)
Apparently he [Yogi] wasn't able to grasp that I was not asking this on my own initiative, but on the behalf of Alex Kontos, the Waterfox dev. Again, I was not in favor of that.
Except that the impression you gave in the original post was exactly the other way around:
http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?19,144023
Quote
PaleastheMoon3
This is from a conversation I had with him [waterfox dev] on Reddit:
Quote
Myself
Also I know someone (developer name roytam1) who could possibly bring back XP and Vista support to Waterfox 56. This way you could remain true to your promise of a "legacy build".
This is the GitHub page of roytam1: https://github.com/roytam1
He has already done amazing work when it comes to reviving the K-Meleon project, and has successfully reintroduced XP support to Pale Moon. This impressive patch is testament of that:
- https://github.com/roytam1/kmeleon/commit/85cf10146fcb90b3a40ee5095cd4d19e4f41b58f
I think that he could be willing to do a big one time patch to Waterfox 56, bringing XP/Vista support back.
Shall I ask him for that on your behalf?
Yes right, you were not asking on your own initiative, and you were not in favor of bringing XP back...
Quote
PaleastheMoon3
So apparently it is OK to call me a troll, but it is not OK to defend myself against such unfounded accusations.
A "defense" with a FLOOD of personal attacks, insults and lies. In return to just those not-so-nice words of him (which he wrote remembering well your first round of attacks in earlier postings):
Quote
Yogi
Wonder what kind of games are you playing here? (...)
One might wonder where are you trolling - over there or here now.
you replied to him with some fifteen lines, a waterfall of accusations in THAT tone:
Quote
PaleastheMoon3
...I am fed up with you, Yogi. You are behaving like a little shit having sabotaged my efforts...
...was a very good idea even suited for brain- and spineless people like you....
I've got enough of your sabotage, calling me a "troll". You have contributed absolutely nothing up unto this point. The only thing you are capable of is talking bullshit.
...Your contribution? Again: Absolutely nothing!
Please, Yogi, try to use the brain you hopefully hide under that alu hat for once and realize that I am trying to help both projects accordingly while you kept talking and talking having contributed nothing.
And just to bring this closer to truth too, YOUR only contribution was to first bringing Goanna into discussion, which probably would have happened sooner or later anyway, considering the MSFN-forum thread, but you may have sped it up a little. While Yogi has contributed countless hours of help and support to KM over many years.
Regarding your other twisted claims about your earlier postings, luckily everyone bored enough can still verify them in the original thread.
Re: Just wanted to let you know that I quit and why...
Posted by:
rodocop
Date: December 27, 2017 09:29PM
Dear
"Pale as the Moon as numbered as you want"
our forum is as free as you can post here even without registration - true.
So no one of us here hadn't the intention to make you a sort of 'enemy' or 'unwanted person'. Never.
Here we sometimes use some irony and some jokes about each other. All we are just people with their emotions and feelings. But none of us never have got this down as much as directly insulting other comrades.
Even 'troll' is modern web mem not a direct insult. So we are full of sorrow that you wasn't able to hold yourself within the bounds of politeness and measure.
Our greatest wish is that everyone here who could make something useful for browser - will do it in peace and comradeship with other members of community. So all we wish you in 2018 is to be more polite and accurate in 'defending' your point of view.
This is not a war. This is not even a Champions League final. It's just a cooperating project of partial same-thinkers.
Please, don't destroy this fragile feeling of solidarity...
Re: Just wanted to let you know that I quit and why...
Posted by:
PaleastheMoon3
Date: December 27, 2017 09:33PM
Quote
siria
Sorry guys, a bit more truth must be allowed here too:
This is coming from a guy who did not hesitate one second to make false claims on my expense when it suited him. Laughable.
Quote
siria
Except that the impression you gave in the original post was exactly the other way around:
http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?19,144023
Except that this is not true. It has been a goal of the Waterfox dev to reintroduce XP/Vista support. I just helped him by establishing contact with roytam1. My opinion was not of any importance here. You refuse to get that.
Quote
siria
Yes right, you were not asking on your own initiative, and you were not in favor of bringing XP back...
Exactly. These are the facts, which you refuse to acknowledge. Attacking me and lying about me is of greater importance to you. You intermingle your personal disapproval of me with the truth. Not good.
Quote
siria
A "defense" with a FLOOD of personal attacks, insults and lies. In return to just those not-so-nice words of him (which he wrote remembering well your first round of attacks in earlier postings):
A not-so-nice reply for initial not-so-nice words, seems appropriate. You are even worse than Yogi, because you are claiming that i have said things I could not even remotely think of. Like "making a Pale Moon clone out of K-Meleon". I have never said that. Just more lies on your part.
Quote
siria
you replied to him with some fifteen lines, a waterfall of accusations in THAT tone:
Yeah, and? A not-so-nice reply was to expected after insulting me. He knew what he was getting into.
Quote
siria
And just to bring this closer to truth too, YOUR only contribution was to first bringing Goanna into discussion, which probably would have happened sooner or later anyway,
Assumptions and speculation right there.
Quote
siria
considering the MSFN-forum thread, but you may have sped it up a little.
siria, this is how it went:
1) I made my proposal.
2) Some guy found the MSFN forums.
3) The same guy introduced roytam1 to K-Meleon and asked for his support.
4) roytam1 started out his work in the very thread I've started, which was then splitted into a new subforum.
Nobody except for me has brought it up. if you guys are oh so clever, then I wonder where I can find an earlier Goanna thread than mine?
Quote
siria
While Yogi has contributed countless hours of help and support to KM over many years.
Except that he had no idea how K-Meleon could move forward and even after I made my proposal kept crying me a river about losing Gecko. If it was for him, K-Meleon would have went defunct sooner or later.
Quote
siria
Regarding your other twisted claims about your earlier postings, luckily everyone bored enough can still verify them in the original thread.
Oh, I have no problem with people verifying things. You should have. Please show me:
1) The quote in which I wanted K-Meleon to become a Pale Moon clone.
2) Where I have insulted people without having previously been insulted.
3) Where I have said that XP support must be dropped because K-Meleon could not be run on XP.
Your lies keep crumbling down.
You and others are the exact reason why I withdraw from this board. Your disapproval of me as a person undermines your willingness to tell the truth about me. You are making false claims. How spiteful.
However, you have the backing of the moderators, who like to censor me when I speak up against your false/unfounded claims and insults. Thus, a discussion makes little to no sense.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2017 09:55PM by PaleastheMoon3.
Re: Just wanted to let you know that I quit and why...
Posted by:
PaleastheMoon3
Date: December 27, 2017 09:48PM
Quote
rodocop
Dear
"Pale as the Moon as numbered as you want"
Yeah, the numbers are a product of biased moderators shutting down my accounts. Not my fault.
Quote
rodocop
our forum is as free as you can post here even without registration - true.
So no one of us here hadn't the intention to make you a sort of 'enemy' or 'unwanted person'. Never.
It was not your intention, no. But people like smallhagrid, Yogi, siria did not treat me respectfully to begin with.
Quote
rodocop
Here we sometimes use some irony and some jokes about each other. All we are just people with their emotions and feelings. But none of us never have got this down as much as directly insulting other comrades.
You forget that I was the one getting ambushed just for stating that XP is outdated. This is not even a reason to insult someone IMHO. However, I have learned otherwise in these forums. Sorry to say.
Quote
rodocop
Even 'troll' is modern web mem not a direct insult. So we are full of sorrow that you wasn't able to hold yourself within the bounds of politeness and measure.
"Troll" implies that I was just coming here to cause unrest for my own pleasure. This is false and you know it. It is a lie, and extremely spiteful. Before I return to the "bounds of politeness" those who can't discuss with others without slights against personal honor should do.
Quote
rodocop
Our greatest wish is that everyone here who could make something useful for browser - will do it in peace and comradeship with other members of community. So all we wish you in 2018 is to be more polite and accurate in 'defending' your point of view.
Sure, if others treat me with respect to begin with. Without respect I see no reason for politeness. This is not a one way street. Never has been, and won't be in 2018.
Quote
rodocop
This is not a war. This is not even a Champions League final. It's just a cooperating project of partial same-thinkers.
You tell me. I was ambushed for making the factually true claim that XP is outdated. This is no reason to insult somebody. Tell this to the guys who can't be bothered to treat those they disagree with with respect.
Quote
rodocop
Please, don't destroy this fragile feeling of solidarity...
Yeah, of course it has to be ME. I made a proposal which turned out to be the way forward, and was greeted with "troll". Great solidarity, now all of you are profiting from this development. Where can I find your solidarity for the solidarity I had with you? Where?
Re: Just wanted to let you know that I quit and why...
Posted by:
rodocop
Date: December 27, 2017 10:00PM
I understand you. And this is not MY community.
I'm even not the oldtimer here.
Personally I would welcome you (and everyone else who wishes K-Meleon the best) now and forever.
But it is important not only WHAT we want and do but also HOW we do that.
Your reactions were TOO unacceptable in terms of words used, sorry.
Everyone here could be right and could be wrong, but no one should get so rough. Sorry once again but the community unwritten rules are so everywhere. Not only here.
Please, find some humbleness inside you and just forgive your opponents on the eve of great holiday. And Great Lizard will bless you too!
Re: Just wanted to let you know that I quit and why...
Posted by:
PaleastheMoon3
Date: December 27, 2017 10:34PM
Quote
rodocop
I understand you. And this is not MY community.
I'm even not the oldtimer here.
Personally I would welcome you (and everyone else who wishes K-Meleon the best) now and forever.
But it is important not only WHAT we want and do but also HOW we do that.
Your reactions were TOO unacceptable in terms of words used, sorry.
Everyone here could be right and could be wrong, but no one should get so rough. Sorry once again but the community unwritten rules are so everywhere. Not only here.
Please, find some humbleness inside you and just forgive your opponents on the eve of great holiday. And Great Lizard will bless you too!
But then again, I was having a nice conversation with roytam1, up until the point Yogi joined in order to cause unrest. I was defending myself (in words I found appropriate for his behavior - he had no problem to severely disrupt a nice discussion I was having, slighting me in the process) and was getting banned by biased moderators.
I understand that this is a small community, and people are likely knowing each other by now. People like me don't have it easy here. But when it comes to people insulting me without any consequences, my patience reaches its end. Some are more equal than others here, as it seems. The moderators should show some decency and just admit that. (But then again: Who does admit to make unfair decisions?)
I just found the common sense in me to quit this forum. Makes no sense to stay. People are making false claims about me, are allowed to slight me. But then I react and the moderator intervenes. Laughable. The moderator is unfit for the job, clearly. His bias is way too obvious.
My proposal turned out to be a way out for the project, and was discussed somewhat intensively. So my presence was not entirely useless, at least. However, I could have done without people blowing up just because somebody has a realistic view on an ancient OS.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2017 10:35PM by PaleastheMoon3.
Re: Just wanted to let you know that I quit and why...
Posted by:
J.G.
Date: December 28, 2017 12:04AM
@PaleastheMoon3,
I can sure you that both @Siria and @Rodocop are two of the most respectable members that you can find here at this forum. And @Yogi is a nice member too. I didn't expected the way you have talked to them because I thought you were a clever and educated user. So wrong by my side, what a bad surprise having in mind the good things you have proposed about the Goanna engine. When I was wrong, I apologized sincerely. It's easy, man. Imho you have lost the best opportunity to demonstrate that you were really clever: you should have followed the recommendation of @Rodocop of two weeks of silence. Both @Siria and @Rodocop have more patience than you deserve, and if you were in silence or simply apologize they both will forget your nonsense discussion. Because silence can't damage faster than a bad explanation and they are good people. Just my two cents, of course.
Sorry for the edits, it's a complex translation for me.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/2017 01:27AM by J.G..
Re: Just wanted to let you know that I quit and why...
Posted by:
Impure
Date: December 28, 2017 08:00AM
Glad this one quit. In my opinion Off topic discussions must not be allowed. We need KMeleon to last long and be No1 Browser.. Thats all...
Re: Just wanted to let you know that I quit and why...
Posted by:
guenter
Date: December 28, 2017 05:40PM
Quote
J.G.
@PaleastheMoon3,
I can sure you that both @Siria and @Rodocop are two of the most respectable members that you can find here at this forum. And @Yogi is a nice member too. I didn't expected the way you have talked to them because I thought you were a clever and educated user.
He not only fell foul with @Siria and @Rodocop... - some time ago with several others and me too.
We do not give visible ranks here & unless told You would not even know who is moderator contributor or developer here. So maybe he could not know who is who.
But this is not the first forum and community where he was banned.
Pale as the Moon
Banned user
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat, 11 Feb 2017, 21:51
source: https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=14846&sid=600646c685a9d310783de4445d1d3a02&start=180#p114851
And there he also collided with some of the most respected and resourceful folks.
If a long time contributor to our Forum says farewell after a flame war it is good that he tells the others that and why he quit. At least I would like to know especially if I am the reason. So that I can change my ways.
But after 9619 posts I am not really interested any more to know why a one day fly (Eintagsfliege) - that contributed nothing useful - went.
And IMHO the one day fly is highly intoxicated by the unadulterated exuberance of its own supreme importance if it tells others and me:
Quote
Pale as the Moon
Just wanted to let you know that I quit and why...
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/2017 05:53PM by guenter.
Re: Just wanted to let you know that I quit and why...
Posted by:
Jody Thornton
Date: January 04, 2018 01:26PM
I followed and even PM with you @PaleAsTheMoon3 on several other forums. Hell I even knew you by first name.
What I would like to know is why you completely disappeared and ignored my PMs over the last few months. Yet I still saw you at Waterfox and MozillaZine. I was left wondering what the hell I ever did (or said). I was just like "Poof" you're gone! I mean fine, it's just technical discussion and the like, but I really stood behind your technical beliefs and mindset.
I wish you well in your journey.
English