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Off-Topic: @ROYTAM1: Restoring XP and Vista support to Waterfox 56?
Date: December 20, 2017 07:14AM

Hello roytam1,

I have noticed that you have successfully created a K-Meleon build using the Goanna engine of the Pale Moon team. It works great over here, thank you very much for this amazing build.

Digging a little bit deeper into the thread I found that you keep yet another thread going on the MSFN forums, where people can download Pale Moon and Basilisk builds with re-added XP/Vista support. You have done fantastic work there, as well.

I have been in contact with Alex Kontos (developer of Waterfox) for quite some time now, and I have recently introduced him to your work. As you might already know, Waterfox is an independent 64 bit build of Firefox. Currently Alex Kontos is keeping Waterfox 56 up to date security-wise, so that people can continue to use their legacy extensions for an extended period of time.

Here is the GitHub page of the project:

- https://github.com/MrAlex94/Waterfox

He has authorized me to contact you on his behalf. He would like to reintroduce XP and Vista support in Waterfox 56, if possible. This is from a conversation I had with him on Reddit:

Quote
Myself
Also I know someone (developer name roytam1) who could possibly bring back XP and Vista support to Waterfox 56. This way you could remain true to your promise of a "legacy build".

This is the GitHub page of roytam1:

- https://github.com/roytam1

He has already done amazing work when it comes to reviving the K-Meleon project, and has successfully reintroduced XP support to Pale Moon. This impressive patch is testament of that:

- https://github.com/roytam1/kmeleon/commit/85cf10146fcb90b3a40ee5095cd4d19e4f41b58f

I think that he could be willing to do a big one time patch to Waterfox 56, bringing XP/Vista support back.

Shall I ask him for that on your behalf?

Quote
Alex Kontos
Yes, please do contact him! That would be a huge assistance for sure.

Firefox 52 still had XP/Vista support, so can it be reintroduced in Firefox/Waterfox 56?

It would be great if you could accomplish that for the Waterfox project, as this would help its developer and community tremendously.

Feel free to reply to me or better yet contact Alex personally on GitHub if you are interested.

Have a nice day

Pale as the Moon

OTHERS PLEASE DON'T COMMENT TO HEAVILY ON THIS POSTING, THIS IS JUST MEANT AS A MESSAGE TO ROYTAM1 AND WILL BE RENDERED USELESSS WHEN HE HAS REPLIED!!!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2017 07:17AM by Pale as the Moon.

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Re: Off-Topic: @ROYTAM1: Restoring XP and Vista support to Waterfox 56?
Posted by: roytam1
Date: December 20, 2017 07:24AM

If it make use of Rust, then there is no hope for XP/Vista.

and thats why MCP people decide to fork mozilla-central-55.0a1 code(just right before the rust-requirement enforcement patch lands) into basilisk.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2017 07:28AM by roytam1.

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Re: Off-Topic: @ROYTAM1: Restoring XP and Vista support to Waterfox 56?
Date: December 20, 2017 07:38AM

Quote
roytam1
If it make use of Rust, then there is no hope for XP/Vista.

sad smiley

Quote
roytam1
and thats why MCP people decide to fork mozilla-central-55.0a1 code(just right before the rust-requirement enforcement patch lands) into basilisk.

Could you elaborate, please? Of which "Rust-requirement enforcement patch" do you speak? Any related links? Also, how heavily does Firefox 56 make use of Rust, and could the components in question still be exchanged for the older ones?

Also, what does this mean for K-Meleon? I guess UXP by the Pale Moon team will be its only possible future then, as Mozilla will use Rust heavily in the future... That will make an eventual return of Gecko impossible, right?

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Re: Off-Topic: @ROYTAM1: Restoring XP and Vista support to Waterfox 56?
Posted by: roytam1
Date: December 20, 2017 07:40AM

Quote
Pale as the Moon
Quote
roytam1
If it make use of Rust, then there is no hope for XP/Vista.

sad smiley

Quote
roytam1
and thats why MCP people decide to fork mozilla-central-55.0a1 code(just right before the rust-requirement enforcement patch lands) into basilisk.

Could you elaborate, please? Of which "Rust-requirement enforcement patch" do you speak? Any related links? Also, how heavily does Firefox 56 make use of Rust, and could the components in question still be exchanged for the older ones?

Also, what does this mean for K-Meleon? I guess UXP by the Pale Moon team will be its only possible future then, as Mozilla will use Rust heavily in the future... That will make an eventual return of Gecko impossible, right?

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Firefox/Building_Firefox_with_Rust_code
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1284816

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Re: Off-Topic: @ROYTAM1: Restoring XP and Vista support to Waterfox 56?
Date: December 20, 2017 07:46AM


Thanks for the links. Well, that doesn't look too good unfortunately. I'll report back to Alex now, to see what he has to say.

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Re: Off-Topic: @ROYTAM1: Restoring XP and Vista support to Waterfox 56?
Date: December 20, 2017 07:57AM

I got the Firefox 56 ships with the following Rust components:

- MP4 metadata parser: bug 1161350 (shipped for desktop in Firefox 48)
Why Rust? Parses untrusted input, replaces libstagefright, a 3rd-party library with a history of security vulnerabilities.
- Replace uconv with encoding-rs: bug 1261841 (shipped in Firefox 56)

Could those be redone/taken out?

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Re: Off-Topic: @ROYTAM1: Restoring XP and Vista support to Waterfox 56?
Posted by: roytam1
Date: December 20, 2017 08:02AM

Quote
Pale as the Moon
I got the Firefox 56 ships with the following Rust components:

- MP4 metadata parser: bug 1161350 (shipped for desktop in Firefox 48)
Why Rust? Parses untrusted input, replaces libstagefright, a 3rd-party library with a history of security vulnerabilities.
- Replace uconv with encoding-rs: bug 1261841 (shipped in Firefox 56)

Could those be redone/taken out?

If encoding-rs can be backout, and applying https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd-ports/blob/7d67a39637dc/www/firefox/files/patch-rust-option , things might work.

Maybe we should discuss it in his github issue page?
https://github.com/MrAlex94/Waterfox/issues/321



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2017 08:10AM by roytam1.

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Re: Off-Topic: @ROYTAM1: Restoring XP and Vista support to Waterfox 56?
Posted by: roytam1
Date: December 20, 2017 08:22AM

Quote
Pale as the Moon
Also I know someone (developer name roytam1) who could possibly bring back XP and Vista support to Waterfox 56. This way you could remain true to your promise of a "legacy build".

This is the GitHub page of roytam1:

- https://github.com/roytam1

He has already done amazing work when it comes to reviving the K-Meleon project, and has successfully reintroduced XP support to Pale Moon. This impressive patch is testament of that:

- https://github.com/roytam1/kmeleon/commit/85cf10146fcb90b3a40ee5095cd4d19e4f41b58f

And just to be clear, in this commit, I just ported Dorian's mozilla.patch(which revives some old functions for K-Meleon use) to Goanna.

And for Pale Moon XP revive patch is done by Feodor2(maybe he is zzz528
in ru-board?) :
https://github.com/Feodor2/Mypal/blob/master/RestoreXP.patch

and yes, porting this patch to basilisk is done by me.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2017 08:24AM by roytam1.

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Re: Off-Topic: @ROYTAM1: Restoring XP and Vista support to Waterfox 56?
Date: December 24, 2017 11:33PM

Quote
roytam1
Quote
Pale as the Moon
Also I know someone (developer name roytam1) who could possibly bring back XP and Vista support to Waterfox 56. This way you could remain true to your promise of a "legacy build".

This is the GitHub page of roytam1:

- https://github.com/roytam1

He has already done amazing work when it comes to reviving the K-Meleon project, and has successfully reintroduced XP support to Pale Moon. This impressive patch is testament of that:

- https://github.com/roytam1/kmeleon/commit/85cf10146fcb90b3a40ee5095cd4d19e4f41b58f

And just to be clear, in this commit, I just ported Dorian's mozilla.patch(which revives some old functions for K-Meleon use) to Goanna.

And for Pale Moon XP revive patch is done by Feodor2(maybe he is zzz528
in ru-board?) :
https://github.com/Feodor2/Mypal/blob/master/RestoreXP.patch

and yes, porting this patch to basilisk is done by me.

Then credit goes to the ones originally responsible of course. Although this does not diminish your own amazing work up unto that point of course.

Would it be possible to track down the major code parts acting as road blocks for XP and Vista support? Is that something you or another developer could do?

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Re: Off-Topic: @ROYTAM1: Restoring XP and Vista support to Waterfox 56?
Posted by: roytam1
Date: December 25, 2017 12:00AM

Quote
Pale as the Moon
Quote
roytam1
Quote
Pale as the Moon
Also I know someone (developer name roytam1) who could possibly bring back XP and Vista support to Waterfox 56. This way you could remain true to your promise of a "legacy build".

This is the GitHub page of roytam1:

- https://github.com/roytam1

He has already done amazing work when it comes to reviving the K-Meleon project, and has successfully reintroduced XP support to Pale Moon. This impressive patch is testament of that:

- https://github.com/roytam1/kmeleon/commit/85cf10146fcb90b3a40ee5095cd4d19e4f41b58f

And just to be clear, in this commit, I just ported Dorian's mozilla.patch(which revives some old functions for K-Meleon use) to Goanna.

And for Pale Moon XP revive patch is done by Feodor2(maybe he is zzz528
in ru-board?) :
https://github.com/Feodor2/Mypal/blob/master/RestoreXP.patch

and yes, porting this patch to basilisk is done by me.

Then credit goes to the ones originally responsible of course. Although this does not diminish your own amazing work up unto that point of course.

Would it be possible to track down the major code parts acting as road blocks for XP and Vista support? Is that something you or another developer could do?

The whole Rust part blocks.
Other than that, things can be fixed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/25/2017 12:15AM by roytam1.

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Re: Off-Topic: @ROYTAM1: Restoring XP and Vista support to Waterfox 56?
Posted by: Yogi
Date: December 26, 2017 01:39PM

@Pale as the Moon
Wonder what kind of games are you playing here?

One of your first posts you made after your apparition on these forums:
Quote

With all due respect, I don't think keeping support for Windows XP (and Vista, for that matter) is a responsible decision nowadays. Microsoft dropped support for this OS in 2014 and it hasn't received any security updates ever since. Windows XP is one huge security concern and no browser or AV software is going to fix the inherent security issues of the OS. I wouldn't even dare going online with it. Every OS before Windows 7 (the oldest OS Microsoft currently supports) should be dropped as of now.

And now you are asking for Windows XP support in Waterfox?

One might wonder where are you trolling - over there or here now.

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Re: Off-Topic: @ROYTAM1: Restoring XP and Vista support to Waterfox 56?
Date: December 26, 2017 07:45PM

Quote
Yogi
@Pale as the Moon
Wonder what kind of games are you playing here?

One of your first posts you made after your apparition on these forums:
Quote

With all due respect, I don't think keeping support for Windows XP (and Vista, for that matter) is a responsible decision nowadays. Microsoft dropped support for this OS in 2014 and it hasn't received any security updates ever since. Windows XP is one huge security concern and no browser or AV software is going to fix the inherent security issues of the OS. I wouldn't even dare going online with it. Every OS before Windows 7 (the oldest OS Microsoft currently supports) should be dropped as of now.

And now you are asking for Windows XP support in Waterfox?

One might wonder where are you trolling - over there or here now.


Believe it or not, I can clearly differentiate between my personal opinion and just asking a person for something on behalf of someone else.

By the way, nothing in the text you've quoted is factually wrong. XP is and remains insecure and no browser can fix that.

I am fed up with you, Yogi. You are behaving like a little shit having sabotaged my efforts to help K-Meleon, just like you do now when I try to help the Waterfox dev. I have not been trolling, but have really tried to propose suitable solutions in both cases, while you have not contributed anything of value.

Believe it or not: Goanna has been the only solution for the K-Meleon project anyway if XP / Vista support is still a criterion, because Mozilla now uses Rust extensively. Rust is a road block for XP support. So my proposal was the only way forward, and was a very good idea even suited for brain- and spineless people like you.

I've got enough of your sabotage, calling me a "troll". You have contributed absolutely nothing up unto this point. The only thing you are capable of is talking bullshit.

Turned out that my proposal was the way to go after a capable developer (roytam1) made it come true. Your contribution? Again: Absolutely nothing!

Please, Yogi, try to use the brain you hopefully hide under that alu hat for once and realize that I am trying to help both projects accordingly while you kept talking and talking having contributed nothing.


User Pale as the Moon banned for 2 weeks for multiple violations of community customs and netiquette
(agressive style of communication, numerous insults)

Next time ban will be final one.

MODERATOR



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 12/26/2017 09:46PM by rodocop.

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Re: Off-Topic: @ROYTAM1: Restoring XP and Vista support to Waterfox 56?
Posted by: J.G.
Date: December 26, 2017 08:47PM

Please guys, you both are nice members with good contributions to this forum. sleepy smiley

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Re: Off-Topic: @ROYTAM1: Restoring XP and Vista support to Waterfox 56?
Date: December 27, 2017 09:48AM

Quote
MODERATOR
User Pale as the Moon banned for 2 weeks for multiple violations of community customs and netiquette
(agressive style of communication, numerous insults)

Next time ban will be final one.
Nice one, MODERATOR. I didn't even realize moderators still exist here. As you may have noticed, your ban had no real effect on me. Creating a second account took me 2 minutes at most.

Know that aggressive banning is not a nice form of communication, either. Especially when it is one-sided. Yogi has called me a troll out of nowhere, and wasn't banned. Care to explain the reason for this?

I was the attacked party, after all. I tried to ask for something on behalf of someone else and get attacked by him for this harmless request. He is the one causing unrest here. This was supposed to be a conversation between me and roytam1 (who has my greatest respect for the work he is doing here). Then Yogi comes in and accuses me out of nowhere.

If you ban me, then ban him, too. This one-sided action will lead you nowhere. I have a right to defend myself, and have the right to do so in the same tone that Yogi chose when he accused me.


PLEASE STOP. Do not force us to block you in really aggresive way. You are the first non-spamming user banned for at least 6 years. You make this happen, not Yogi or somebody else.
Your problem is about sense of measure. Think about it, please.
So just have a vacation. And let us too.
Anyway you shouldn't discuss this here. Good luck. SEE YOU IN 2018.




Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2017 10:22AM by rodocop.

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Re: Off-Topic: Trolling again
Posted by: siria
Date: December 27, 2017 12:55PM

(just preserving history)

Quote
Pale as the Moon
Believe it or not, I can clearly differentiate between my personal opinion and just asking a person for something on behalf of someone else.

By the way, nothing in the text you've quoted is factually wrong. XP is and remains insecure and no browser can fix that.

I am fed up with you, Yogi. You are behaving like a little shit having sabotaged my efforts to help K-Meleon, just like you do now when I try to help the Waterfox dev. I have not been trolling, but have really tried to propose suitable solutions in both cases, while you have not contributed anything of value.

Believe it or not: Goanna has been the only solution for the K-Meleon project anyway if XP / Vista support is still a criterion, because Mozilla now uses Rust extensively. Rust is a road block for XP support. So my proposal was the only way forward, and was a very good idea even suited for brain- and spineless people like you.

I've got enough of your sabotage, calling me a "troll". You have contributed absolutely nothing up unto this point. The only thing you are capable of is talking bullshit.

Turned out that my proposal was the way to go after a capable developer (roytam1) made it come true. Your contribution? Again: Absolutely nothing!

Please, Yogi, try to use the brain you hopefully hide under that alu hat for once and realize that I am trying to help both projects accordingly while you kept talking and talking having contributed nothing.

Quote
Pale as the Moon 2

Quote
MODERATOR
User Pale as the Moon banned for 2 weeks for multiple violations of community customs and netiquette (agressive style of communication, numerous insults) Next time ban will be final one.

Nice one, MODERATOR. I didn't even realize moderators still exist here. As you may have noticed, your ban had no real effect on me. Creating a second account took me 2 minutes at most.
Know that aggressive banning is not a nice form of communication, either. Especially when it is one-sided. Yogi has called me a troll out of nowhere, and wasn't banned. Care to explain the reason for this?
I was the attacked party, after all. I tried to ask for something on behalf of someone else and get attacked by him for this harmless request. He is the one causing unrest here. This was supposed to be a conversation between me and roytam1 (who has my greatest respect for the work he is doing here). Then Yogi comes in and accuses me out of nowhere.
If you ban me, then ban him, too. This one-sided action will lead you nowhere. I have a right to defend myself, and have the right to do so in the same tone that Yogi chose when he accused me.

Quote
MODERATOR
PLEASE STOP. Do not force us to block you in really aggresive way. You are the first non-spamming user banned for at least 6 years. You make this happen, not Yogi or somebody else.
Your problem is about sense of measure. Think about it, please.
So just have a vacation. And let us too.
Anyway you shouldn't discuss this here. Good luck. SEE YOU IN 2018.




For clueless readers:
Be careful what you believe. Unlike the impression this oh so innocent user is trying to pretend, this does not come "out of nowhere", nor are his attacks even remotely "in the same tone". This is fake news. In reality he/she has a history of trolling before. His current critic and victim is by no means the first one to have it named so, and be flooded with endless insults and hate. Also as mentioned above, PATM has an impressive history of fighting long and passionately AGAINST keeping XP-compatibility for K-Meleon, calling this all sorts of irresponsibility and aggressively attacking other members who resist his/her demand that KM becomes a mere clone of Palemoon.
To borrow again what yet another KM-regular wisely posted about PATM in the past:





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2017 02:11PM by siria.

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