K-Meleon on Goanna :
K-Meleon Web Browser Forum
Hi you all, here there are some of my thoughts about KMG:
1) KMeleon Goanna is the only fork maintained by now, alone.
2) It's clearly enough that Gecko will no longer exist here.
3) KMeleon is not in the oblivion due the work of @Roytam1.
4) We are few people here and our proposals are few too.
So please, consider to treat KMeleon Goanna not as a fork anymore.
Also K-Meleon 75.1 (2015-09-19) should be declared abandonware.
Let KMeleon Goanna to be the alone stable version, as it deserves.
Let KMeleon Goanna to be the alone main version, as it deserves.
Thanks in advance. J.G.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2022 02:04AM by J.G..
> Let KMeleon Goanna to be the alone stable version, as it deserves.
feel free to find a build that is stable enough to be a "stable version", but I'm not going to take this role.
I sincerely beg your pardon if I have explained so badly my point of view.
I meant to consider your fork version to be the main version alone.
A fork, by default, means that there is other "main" active version.
It won't be more main versions but yours, so why to consider it a "fork"?
Anyway, thanks. ¬_¬
Note: and about the "stable enough build", I read it at http://kmeleonbrowser.org/download.php (english):
"Latest build with Goanna engine (despite its continous update, should be considered the latest stable)"
Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 02/08/2022 01:13PM by J.G..
A fork means a branched development (based on), with or without an active version on the main stream.
The most recent example can be found on youtube-dl, that was split, aka forked, on ytp-dl, because youtube-dl wasn't actively developed (are rarely developed) and lagging with the needed capabilities for YouTube new restrictions.
That doesn't mean that ytp-dl isn't a fork, it is, as it is based on youtube-dl.
In fact, forks usually surge as in case of software revival (this happens a lot nowadays).
I don't want to place words on roytam's mouth/keyboard, but I guess he doesn't want the role of a K-meleon stable version as long as he doesn't develop K-meleon itself, he forked, and changed the needed, continuously in terms of beta, I would say, so can link it to the Goanna engine.
I already told to RJJIII, K-meleon itself isn't being developed, and by developed I mean improved, since a few years now, and roytams isn't improving it, beyond the engine "gluing" (hard work anyway and never trying to undervalue his work, just what I see as a fact).
Another example is Palemoon, MyPal (now defunct) and NewMoon (UXP). Forks to make them compatible with XP.
That was a discussed phrase to let users know that that was the most up to date K-meleon version, build, fork, whatever that this site can offer (as has done with others in the past but with special dedication to the Goanna one, for obvious reasons).
For further details and no repeat myself, you can have a read to this thread/post:
http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?1,155809#msg-155813
Anyway, I'm not the webmaster, the project leader, or whatever, I'm just the last K-meleon oldie around (in terms of time spent to date) and with admin privileges on this forum, nothing else. I try to maintain what we have (well, what I can touch, that is the forum, and partially the wiki, now managed by RJJIII).
If anyone, somehow, feels that this project should split from this site, create a new one, and whatever is needed to focus on the roytam's Goanna build, as long as the licence allows, is fine. I won't set stones in the road.
All Linux distributions and other forked software started the same way, because they didn't like the previous management, development, or whatever. K-meleon isn't different.
@JohnHell thanks for the answer and also for the explanations provided within.
My knowledge about forks, alphas, betas and such other software development words is not high, so probably I didn't explain my thoughts rightly. Or perhaps I am unable to write them. Anyway, even now I am still a little confused about this whole thing. I sincerely think that today Kmeleon Goanna is not a fork anymore because it's the result of the common sense applied to an end road... I meant, KMeleon Goanna is the forced evolution of KMeleon, the result of important efforts to maintain it alive. A forced evolution wished by some dreamers, ok, it's a poetic fight to keep alive a really good thing. And for this reason, imho our first mistake was to consider @roytam1's first release a fork from the beginning instead to consider it a single opportunity to start a new stage in the KMeleon life, with no regrets.
I read this somewhere: "forking is often the result of a deadlock in an open source project that is so insurmountable that all work stops." Maybe yes or maybe not, however some members here provided as much help as they were able to give, I remember clearly such those days with some gratitude and happiness. I myself have helped here with the KMeleon Goanna es-ES locale with a hard effort due my low skills and my visual disability. I remember with proud also to @Guenter and @siria and @rodocop and some others that helped in so many fields. So, replacing a dead engine is forking? I meant again, with no aim to discuss because your knowledge is better than mine, when @roytam1 replace the engine, KMeleon was nearly 99% EOL due its deprecated Gecko engine: if no engine were replaced, KMeleon name will have vanished as dead software. Everyone of us knew it.
Probably I am young and I don't understand those things, but some times the better ideas born from misunderstandings.
I said long time ago that it would be an honor for me to meet this amazing project since the very beginning.
So, to end this, which is more important for you, and for you all, one engine or one trade name? :s
PS. thanks @roytam1 for all your releases.
I've found that the engine doesn't really affect how I update most articles. Many of them are historical pages where it doesn't make sense to update much. For current pages, I can often write documentation that applies to 75.1, 76.x, and 76.x.g. I went through the plugins recently and tested my instructions for installing the Foxit and Sumatra NPAPI plugins to open a PDF in the browser. It was just the same on each one.
No, as you, editing, maintaining, as I told you in the other thread, and, basically, the spanish/english versions of the news and downloads in the latest months/years, or when I found some error on the docs or whatever.
The wiki is open to anyone. No K-meleon user should be discouraged to contribute in any way because someone else is editing too if something can be improved.
This is a community project and, as so, I guess (wasn't there), it was decided back then to have a wiki instead let it all to a main webmaster.
@J.G.:
Read the last words from Dorian:
> http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?19,143253,143702#msg-143702 (4 years already, wow!)
BUT in terms on continuation of this project, this wasn't accomplished. The changes aren't committed to this project, roytam wasn't added to this project as developer (Dorian had the power and didn't do), and so he did/has his own code repo, he forked, in other words, and so commits there, not here.
It is another project, a fork.
Yes, K-meleon Goanna is the main K-meleon version (some don't let me call it version, build instead (complicity wink with who knows what I'm talking about ;P)). Yeah, it is being routed the focus over it as much as we can.
We highlight it in the news, as long as there is a new major version, we placed it in first place in the downloads section so people see it first, we highlighted the thread/subforum in the forum listing, we..., I don't know what else...
The only problem then is... what, the semantics?, the name? It is what it is. No one is telling "oh God, look that trash software someone is making with K-meleon base". NO, we are encouraging people to use it!!! Spread the word fellow members!!!
It has another name (we call it differently, because it has its own peculiarities and must be known when giving support), true, but it is the reality of this new piece of software. People must know, in honour of K-meleon history, truth and honesty that K-meleon on Goanna is a fork. K-meleon, yeah, but a fork. Main current version, yeah, but a fork.
It is my point of view.
If you don't agree, as RJJIII does now, you can edit the wiki, the docs. I won't like if you change the facts, but as long as there isn't any project leader to route it elsewhere and punch on the table and say NO, no one will complain.
In regards to this forum organization, will continue as it is now, just as what I said above and honor the facts.
I feel, somehow, that this may come. and I'm making an assumption, correct me if you need, because I moved your last threads to "General". Well, I did it because those hints threads apply to K-meleon, all K-meleon versions, not only the Goanna version and was out of topic to place it here in the Goanna subforum.
Time goes by, however it will never erase those great and unforgettable years! :cool:
Thanks for placing those posts in the right side. Appreciated!
Building K-Meleon on top of the Goanna engine
Please consider KMeleon Goanna not a fork anymore
Posted by:
J.G.
Date: February 08, 2022 07:54AM
Hi you all, here there are some of my thoughts about KMG:
1) KMeleon Goanna is the only fork maintained by now, alone.
2) It's clearly enough that Gecko will no longer exist here.
3) KMeleon is not in the oblivion due the work of @Roytam1.
4) We are few people here and our proposals are few too.
So please, consider to treat KMeleon Goanna not as a fork anymore.
Also K-Meleon 75.1 (2015-09-19) should be declared abandonware.
Let KMeleon Goanna to be the alone main version, as it deserves.
Thanks in advance. J.G.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2022 02:04AM by J.G..
Re: Please consider KMeleon Goanna not a fork anymore
Posted by:
roytam1
Date: February 08, 2022 11:04AM
> Let KMeleon Goanna to be the alone stable version, as it deserves.
feel free to find a build that is stable enough to be a "stable version", but I'm not going to take this role.
Re: Please consider KMeleon Goanna not a fork anymore
Posted by:
J.G.
Date: February 08, 2022 12:21PM
Quote
roytam1
> Let KMeleon Goanna to be the alone stable version, as it deserves.
feel free to find a build that is stable enough to be a "stable version", but I'm not going to take this role.
I sincerely beg your pardon if I have explained so badly my point of view.
I meant to consider your fork version to be the main version alone.
A fork, by default, means that there is other "main" active version.
It won't be more main versions but yours, so why to consider it a "fork"?
Anyway, thanks. ¬_¬
Note: and about the "stable enough build", I read it at http://kmeleonbrowser.org/download.php (english):
"Latest build with Goanna engine (despite its continous update, should be considered the latest stable)"
Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 02/08/2022 01:13PM by J.G..
Re: Please consider KMeleon Goanna not a fork anymore
Posted by:
JohnHell
Date: February 08, 2022 07:13PM
Quote
J.G.
A fork, by default, means that there is other "main" active version.
It won't be more main versions but yours, so why to consider it a "fork"?
Anyway, thanks. ¬_¬
A fork means a branched development (based on), with or without an active version on the main stream.
The most recent example can be found on youtube-dl, that was split, aka forked, on ytp-dl, because youtube-dl wasn't actively developed (are rarely developed) and lagging with the needed capabilities for YouTube new restrictions.
That doesn't mean that ytp-dl isn't a fork, it is, as it is based on youtube-dl.
In fact, forks usually surge as in case of software revival (this happens a lot nowadays).
I don't want to place words on roytam's mouth/keyboard, but I guess he doesn't want the role of a K-meleon stable version as long as he doesn't develop K-meleon itself, he forked, and changed the needed, continuously in terms of beta, I would say, so can link it to the Goanna engine.
I already told to RJJIII, K-meleon itself isn't being developed, and by developed I mean improved, since a few years now, and roytams isn't improving it, beyond the engine "gluing" (hard work anyway and never trying to undervalue his work, just what I see as a fact).
Another example is Palemoon, MyPal (now defunct) and NewMoon (UXP). Forks to make them compatible with XP.
Quote
J.G.
Note: and about the "stable enough build", I read it at http://kmeleonbrowser.org/download.php (english):
"Latest build with Goanna engine (despite its continous update, should be considered the latest stable)"
That was a discussed phrase to let users know that that was the most up to date K-meleon version, build, fork, whatever that this site can offer (as has done with others in the past but with special dedication to the Goanna one, for obvious reasons).
For further details and no repeat myself, you can have a read to this thread/post:
http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?1,155809#msg-155813
Anyway, I'm not the webmaster, the project leader, or whatever, I'm just the last K-meleon oldie around (in terms of time spent to date) and with admin privileges on this forum, nothing else. I try to maintain what we have (well, what I can touch, that is the forum, and partially the wiki, now managed by RJJIII).
If anyone, somehow, feels that this project should split from this site, create a new one, and whatever is needed to focus on the roytam's Goanna build, as long as the licence allows, is fine. I won't set stones in the road.
All Linux distributions and other forked software started the same way, because they didn't like the previous management, development, or whatever. K-meleon isn't different.
Re: Please consider KMeleon Goanna not a fork anymore
Posted by:
J.G.
Date: February 09, 2022 03:47AM
@JohnHell thanks for the answer and also for the explanations provided within.
My knowledge about forks, alphas, betas and such other software development words is not high, so probably I didn't explain my thoughts rightly. Or perhaps I am unable to write them. Anyway, even now I am still a little confused about this whole thing. I sincerely think that today Kmeleon Goanna is not a fork anymore because it's the result of the common sense applied to an end road... I meant, KMeleon Goanna is the forced evolution of KMeleon, the result of important efforts to maintain it alive. A forced evolution wished by some dreamers, ok, it's a poetic fight to keep alive a really good thing. And for this reason, imho our first mistake was to consider @roytam1's first release a fork from the beginning instead to consider it a single opportunity to start a new stage in the KMeleon life, with no regrets.
I read this somewhere: "forking is often the result of a deadlock in an open source project that is so insurmountable that all work stops." Maybe yes or maybe not, however some members here provided as much help as they were able to give, I remember clearly such those days with some gratitude and happiness. I myself have helped here with the KMeleon Goanna es-ES locale with a hard effort due my low skills and my visual disability. I remember with proud also to @Guenter and @siria and @rodocop and some others that helped in so many fields. So, replacing a dead engine is forking? I meant again, with no aim to discuss because your knowledge is better than mine, when @roytam1 replace the engine, KMeleon was nearly 99% EOL due its deprecated Gecko engine: if no engine were replaced, KMeleon name will have vanished as dead software. Everyone of us knew it.
Probably I am young and I don't understand those things, but some times the better ideas born from misunderstandings.
I said long time ago that it would be an honor for me to meet this amazing project since the very beginning.
So, to end this, which is more important for you, and for you all, one engine or one trade name? :s
PS. thanks @roytam1 for all your releases.
Re: Please consider KMeleon Goanna not a fork anymore
Posted by:
RJJIII
Date: February 09, 2022 08:09AM
When you say "partially the wiki" do you mean from a technical standpoint? I'm just making sure that I don't come off like I'm discouraging anybody else from adding to the wiki. And thanks again for all the explanations before.Quote
JohnHell
[ . . . ]
Anyway, I'm not the webmaster, the project leader, or whatever, I'm just the last K-meleon oldie around (in terms of time spent to date) and with admin privileges on this forum, nothing else. I try to maintain what we have (well, what I can touch, that is the forum, and partially the wiki, now managed by RJJIII).
If anyone, somehow, feels that this project should split from this site, create a new one, and whatever is needed to focus on the roytam's Goanna build, as long as the licence allows, is fine. I won't set stones in the road.
[ . . . ]
I've found that the engine doesn't really affect how I update most articles. Many of them are historical pages where it doesn't make sense to update much. For current pages, I can often write documentation that applies to 75.1, 76.x, and 76.x.g. I went through the plugins recently and tested my instructions for installing the Foxit and Sumatra NPAPI plugins to open a PDF in the browser. It was just the same on each one.
Re: Please consider KMeleon Goanna not a fork anymore
Posted by:
JohnHell
Date: February 09, 2022 05:52PM
Quote
RJJIII
When you say "partially the wiki" do you mean from a technical standpoint?Quote
JohnHell
[ . . . ]
Anyway, I'm not the webmaster, the project leader, or whatever, I'm just the last K-meleon oldie around (in terms of time spent to date) and with admin privileges on this forum, nothing else. I try to maintain what we have (well, what I can touch, that is the forum, and partially the wiki, now managed by RJJIII).
If anyone, somehow, feels that this project should split from this site, create a new one, and whatever is needed to focus on the roytam's Goanna build, as long as the licence allows, is fine. I won't set stones in the road.
[ . . . ]
No, as you, editing, maintaining, as I told you in the other thread, and, basically, the spanish/english versions of the news and downloads in the latest months/years, or when I found some error on the docs or whatever.
Quote
RJJIII
I'm just making sure that I don't come off like I'm discouraging anybody else from adding to the wiki. And thanks again for all the explanations before.
The wiki is open to anyone. No K-meleon user should be discouraged to contribute in any way because someone else is editing too if something can be improved
.
This is a community project and, as so, I guess (wasn't there), it was decided back then to have a wiki instead let it all to a main webmaster.
@J.G.:
Read the last words from Dorian:
> http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?19,143253,143702#msg-143702 (4 years already, wow!)
BUT in terms on continuation of this project, this wasn't accomplished. The changes aren't committed to this project, roytam wasn't added to this project as developer (Dorian had the power and didn't do), and so he did/has his own code repo, he forked, in other words, and so commits there, not here.
It is another project, a fork.
Yes, K-meleon Goanna is the main K-meleon version (some don't let me call it version, build instead (complicity wink with who knows what I'm talking about ;P)). Yeah, it is being routed the focus over it as much as we can.
We highlight it in the news, as long as there is a new major version, we placed it in first place in the downloads section so people see it first, we highlighted the thread/subforum in the forum listing, we..., I don't know what else...
The only problem then is... what, the semantics?, the name? It is what it is. No one is telling "oh God, look that trash software someone is making with K-meleon base". NO, we are encouraging people to use it!!! Spread the word fellow members!!!
It has another name (we call it differently, because it has its own peculiarities and must be known when giving support), true, but it is the reality of this new piece of software. People must know, in honour of K-meleon history, truth and honesty that K-meleon on Goanna is a fork. K-meleon, yeah, but a fork. Main current version, yeah, but a fork.
It is my point of view.
If you don't agree, as RJJIII does now, you can edit the wiki, the docs. I won't like if you change the facts, but as long as there isn't any project leader to route it elsewhere and punch on the table and say NO, no one will complain.
In regards to this forum organization, will continue as it is now, just as what I said above and honor the facts.
I feel, somehow, that this may come. and I'm making an assumption, correct me if you need, because I moved your last threads to "General". Well, I did it because those hints threads apply to K-meleon, all K-meleon versions, not only the Goanna version and was out of topic to place it here in the Goanna subforum.
Re: Please consider KMeleon Goanna not a fork anymore
Posted by:
J.G.
Date: February 10, 2022 05:06AM
Quote
JohnHell
(...)
@J.G.:
Read the last words from Dorian:
> http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?19,143253,143702#msg-143702 (4 years already, wow!)
Time goes by, however it will never erase those great and unforgettable years! :cool:
Quote
JohnHell
(...)
I feel, somehow, that this may come. and I'm making an assumption, correct me if you need, because I moved your last threads to "General". Well, I did it because those hints threads apply to K-meleon, all K-meleon versions, not only the Goanna version and was out of topic to place it here in the Goanna subforum.
Thanks for placing those posts in the right side. Appreciated!
English