Ja, ich halte ffOX Nightly aka Build Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:11.0a1) Gecko/20111110 Firefox/11.0a1 up to Date.

Auf einer 4 GB RAM Maschine fällt nicht auf: welchen RAM der braucht.

Der Resoursen Verbrauch hat im Ãœbrigen bei ffOX Nightlys seit 2 Versionen abgenommen!


Leider gibt es keinen KM damit.

Lets see how long you use a browser that is unsupported soon once Firefox 3.6 end of life announcement comes.

Also thanks for being the IE6 of Firefox users, 3.6 doesn't support HTML5 and only will hurt the Internet just like IE6 did.

Also I'm using Firefox 11.0 Nightly, so much faster than Kmeleon, it's not even funny.

Firefox 3.6 is still fully supported, and may be supported
longer than many think, because Firefox 7 and higher
are problematic in various older systems, which are
still supported and used by many.
Using a K-Meleon based on Firefox 3.6 is probably
much safer than using a Firefox 11 Nightly, whose
Gecko has not been tested at all by a wider user group.

Fred

@ Who cares?

Der RAM-Verbrauch ist eigentlich nicht einmal der Hauptgrund weshalb ich mich bis jetzt mit Fx nicht anfreunden konnte. Es ist vielmehr seine Nacktheit. Für den geringsten Furz muss man eine Erweiterung installieren. Dann kann man nur hoffen daß man sich selber kein Ei ins Nest gelegt hat und daß der bewehrte Findling auch nach einem Upgrade weiterhin problemlos funktioniert. Mit K-Meleon und Opera kann ich mir Erweiterungen ersparen. Opera's Erweiterungen sind ohnehin ein schlechter Witz.
Wenn Fx9 Final wird werde ich es wieder mal testen.

@Type Inference

I can easily answer your question I will use K-Meleon as long as it will fit my needs. It fits for now and probably will fit for some time to come.
I'm not at all keen for HTML5. Wonder what will hurt the Internet more, a browser not supporting HTML5 or one supporting it. I also wonder if you are aware about the can of worms HTML5 will open once decently widespread. Remember my words and keep tuned
I don't see any significant difference on speed between K-Meleon and Opera with my broadband connection. There might be a significant difference in rendering ECMAscript but I couldn't care less since I have scripting disabled most of the time.
Nonetheless I will test Fx11 as soon it will become final. The same applies to Fx9 and Fx10.

Quote
Fred
Firefox 3.6 is still fully supported, and may be supported
longer than many think, because Firefox 7 and higher
are problematic in various older systems, which are
still supported and used by many.
Using a K-Meleon based on Firefox 3.6 is probably
much safer than using a Firefox 11 Nightly, whose
Gecko has not been tested at all by a wider user group.

Fred

Fred,

Don't encourage the conversation. Clearly this is a flamer with only one agenda, to get under people's skins. Personally I find nothing wrong with Firefox, aside from its asinine me-toism in its competition with Chrome to see who gets to win the award for the world's first browser no. 999.

K-Meleon has a mighty fine scripting language and runs like a bat out of hell even with parts that are slower than the latest and greatest from Mozilla.

And for what it's worth, Gecko 1.9.1 is still secure in K-Meleon, according to PSI 2.

And HTML5. If you think getting rid of LSOs and similar is hard with Flash, just wait until HTML5 comes around. Good luck trying to delete advertising droppings.

N



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2011 05:47AM by ndebord.

Quote
Fred
Firefox 3.6 is still fully supported, and may be supported
longer than many think, because Firefox 7 and higher
are problematic in various older systems, which are
still supported and used by many.
Using a K-Meleon based on Firefox 3.6 is probably
much safer than using a Firefox 11 Nightly, whose
Gecko has not been tested at all by a wider user group.

Fred

an upcoming FF 3.6.25 release is coming later this December. there is at least one candidate build of Firefox 3.6.25 that came out yesterday.

Thanks for the info.

Quote
Fred
Firefox 3.6 is still fully supported, and may be supported
longer than many think, because Firefox 7 and higher
are problematic in various older systems, which are
still supported and used by many.
Fred

I would just like to ask which are these various older systems which Firefox 7 and higher are problematic with?

Quote
bksening
I would just like to ask which are these various older systems which Firefox 7 and higher are problematic with?

Take a look on this thread

I was thinking of various older Linux systems, which
are still widely in use, as for example Ubuntu Hardy,
which still gets security updates, although the official
support for Desktop systems has been stopped (server support
still available).
These systems seem not to work with Firefox 7 and higher.
This may be one of the reasons, why Firefox 3.6 still gets
security updates, which makes also updates for KM 17 versions
possible for a while.

Fred

Thanks for the replies rodocop and Fred.

I have already previously read the link rodocop referenced. The only system I see mentioned there is Windows XP SP2 on a Compaq, ie. a non-official system that is running past EOL (ie. End of Life), which for XPSP2 is July 13, 2010.

The other systems mentioned by Fred are Linux Hardy (ie. v.8 series). Wow, I did not know official support for Desktop Hardy has stopped. Does that include official support for all Hardy LTS (long-term support) Desktop versions?

But it gives me more thought to one of your comments just a few back about "Firefox 3.6 is still fully supported". The Windows requirements for Firefox 3.6 vs. FF 7/8 have not changed. It's still Win2k, XP, 2k3, Vista, and Seven (and I would not try an EOL version). I do not know of any specific issues where FF 7/8 are critically problematic on any officially supported Windows platform.

The Linux requirements between Firefox 3.6 and FF 7/8 are almost identical.
http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/3.6/system-requirements/
http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/7.0/system-requirements/
http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/8.0/system-requirements/
(In fact, the Linux requirements for FF 4/5/6/7/8 are all identical.)

The only extra requirement for FF 4/5/6/7/8 is libstdc++ 4.3 or higher. Do some of the older Linux systems have an older version of libstdc++ ? Unfortunately, such older Linux systems are no longer officially supported. Other than that, I'm not sure of any specific issues where FF 7/8 are critically problematic on any officially supported Linux platform either.

It's not about OFFICIAL support for OSes. Mozilla must take care of really existing consumer's system configs even after official EOL - because they are widely used in real life.

Drop supporting your old customers may lead to massive lost of market share of product so Mozilla would support older FF for some time.

I have tried Firefox 8 again with Linux Mint 5,
which is based on Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy, and it worked
for me.
There has been a fault in the Hardy system that I have
tried first, because I had altered some things.
Sorry for my false earlier statement.
The official support for Hardy Desktop ended 2011-05-12,
but security updates are still available.
The official support for Hardy Server will end 2013-04.
So this may not be a reason for a prolonged FF 3.6 support.

Fred

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/109707-firefox-9-released-javascript-performance-improved-by-20-30

Firefox 9.0 Final released, much much faster than outdated and obsolete Firefox 3.6 and K-Meleon.

Quote
Type Inference
http://www.extremetech.com/computing/109707-firefox-9-released-javascript-performance-improved-by-20-30

Firefox 9.0 Final released, much much faster than outdated and obsolete Firefox 3.6 and K-Meleon.

Truly outstanding JS performance.

Too bad that FF9 still has that cludgy inflexible GUI as FF 3.6 and not K-Meleon's.

Greetings to .my form Europe



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2011 10:23PM by guenter.

Quote
Type Inference
http://www.extremetech.com/computing/109707-firefox-9-released-javascript-performance-improved-by-20-30

Firefox 9.0 Final released, much much faster than outdated and obsolete Firefox 3.6 and K-Meleon.

Type Inference,

One could infer you are a Firefox fanboy, so just to enlighten you on the virtues of K-Meleon vs Firefox... think KKO's scripting language, as in roll your own extensions, if you know how or even if you don't, someone here will usually write one for you in short order. Think no XUL software emulation, as in one ring to rule all the operating systems and the subsequent overhead that entails.

K-Meleon is a Mom and Pop browser* and from time to time, the one or two developers who run it run into problems, like the killing off of embed by Mozilla Corp., a problem not just for K-Meleon, but for other operating system specific Gecko offshoots that use APIs from their particular OS (think Camino and offshots of Galeon).

Will K-Meleon survive this? No way to be sure, but if history is any guide (look at the KM about FAQ), you will see that it has always had a couple of developers and it has been handed off from one to the other several times in the past.... successfully.

FYI and FWIW.

* No eighty million bucks from Google to sustain it.

N

Quote
bksening
Thanks for the replies rodocop and Fred.

I have already previously read the link rodocop referenced. The only system I see mentioned there is Windows XP SP2 on a Compaq, ie. a non-official system that is running past EOL (ie. End of Life), which for XPSP2 is July 13, 2010.

The other systems mentioned by Fred are Linux Hardy (ie. v.8 series). Wow, I did not know official support for Desktop Hardy has stopped. Does that include official support for all Hardy LTS (long-term support) Desktop versions?

But it gives me more thought to one of your comments just a few back about "Firefox 3.6 is still fully supported". The Windows requirements for Firefox 3.6 vs. FF 7/8 have not changed. It's still Win2k, XP, 2k3, Vista, and Seven (and I would not try an EOL version). I do not know of any specific issues where FF 7/8 are critically problematic on any officially supported Windows platform.

The Linux requirements between Firefox 3.6 and FF 7/8 are almost identical.
http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/3.6/system-requirements/
http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/7.0/system-requirements/
http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/8.0/system-requirements/
(In fact, the Linux requirements for FF 4/5/6/7/8 are all identical.)

The only extra requirement for FF 4/5/6/7/8 is libstdc++ 4.3 or higher. Do some of the older Linux systems have an older version of libstdc++ ? Unfortunately, such older Linux systems are no longer officially supported. Other than that, I'm not sure of any specific issues where FF 7/8 are critically problematic on any officially supported Linux platform either.

so far bksening, current versions of Firefox will support minimum win2k unless Mozilla starts to make their Firefox program files with MS Visual Studio 2010 and VS2010 requires XP SP2 minimum.

Quote
rodocop
It's not about OFFICIAL support for OSes. Mozilla must take care of really existing consumer's system configs even after official EOL - because they are widely used in real life.

Drop supporting your old customers may lead to massive lost of market share of product so Mozilla would support older FF for some time.

well rodocop, you better hope Mozilla doesn't compile/make future versions of Firefox using MS Visual Studio 2010, which requires WinXP SP2 or better. there is some talk that Mozilla may plan to switch to MS VS 2010.

Quote
4td8s
well rodocop, you better hope Mozilla doesn't compile/make future versions of Firefox using MS Visual Studio 2010, which requires WinXP SP2 or better. there is some talk that Mozilla may plan to switch to MS VS 2010.

I think they definitely would switch. But KM hadn't mastered even GRE 2.0 so it has 'improvement space' at least up to Gecko 8-9 without losing compatibility :-)
More thoughts I'll keep to myself as I'm not a programmer...

All things considered, using Fred's hybrid of 1.7a, 1.6b2 and 1.54 combo works most of the time for me. I have a question for everyone. Would Hao's LUA work be useful or be able to be incorporated into this mix and perhaps help with usability?

Any ideas...

<g>

N

Quote
rodocop
But KM hadn't mastered even GRE 2.0 so it has 'improvement space' at least up to Gecko 8-9 without losing compatibility :-)
More thoughts I'll keep to myself as I'm not a programmer...

Because KM should really "improve" for GRE 2.0, an outdated and slow rendering engine???? Is that something actually desired? Will it even be practical?

My other post was responding to the previous comment "Firefox 3.6 is still fully supported", which is talking about official support for FF versions, which actually is all about official support for the OSes they run on. I actually find it funny that Mozilla lists Win2K as a supported version, because that is end-of-life as well. Microsoft won't be providing support if any issues are found with Win2K.

And now FF3.6 is slated for EOL in April 2012, and an Extended Support Release (ESR) will be created based on FF10. At that point there will no longer be any Mozilla support for FF3.6.
roposal" rel="nofollow" >https://wiki.mozilla.org/Enterprise/Firefox/ExtendedSupportroposal

What kind of development will KM see in the next 4 months? Where will KM be headed after that? Hopefully KM will at least move to code based on FF10, instead of trying to work with FF3.6 code which is outdated and soon will not be supported anymore.

Quote
bksening

Quote
rodocop
But KM hadn't mastered even GRE 2.0 so it has 'improvement space' at least up to Gecko 8-9 without losing compatibility :-)
More thoughts I'll keep to myself as I'm not a programmer...

Because KM should really "improve" for GRE 2.0, an outdated and slow rendering engine???? Is that something actually desired? Will it even be practical?

My other post was responding to the previous comment "Firefox 3.6 is still fully supported", which is talking about official support for FF versions, which actually is all about official support for the OSes they run on. I actually find it funny that Mozilla lists Win2K as a supported version, because that is end-of-life as well. Microsoft won't be providing support if any issues are found with Win2K.

And now FF3.6 is slated for EOL in April 2012, and an Extended Support Release (ESR) will be created based on FF10. At that point there will no longer be any Mozilla support for FF3.6.
roposal" rel="nofollow" >https://wiki.mozilla.org/Enterprise/Firefox/ExtendedSupportroposal

What kind of development will KM see in the next 4 months? Where will KM be headed after that? Hopefully KM will at least move to code based on FF10, instead of trying to work with FF3.6 code which is outdated and soon will not be supported anymore.

1.) Are You unaware of the fact that K-Meleon is not supported by any active c++ coder currently?

No matter what You think is practical... K-Meleon 1.6 can be finished without changing C code. That is GRE 3.5.1.x. It is either that or nothing.

2.) Win2000 can run Win32.exes. No matter whether it reached EOL & whether MS left their customers in the rain. People will not throw their hardware away unless they can afford to replace it. MS is jeopardizing their other customers when they stop fixing critical problems for their EOL Versions that folks still use.

3.) If there is no C++ coder that has time and has interest in the project there will be no version for 3.6.2.x beyond the 1.7.alpha nor anything else like FF-GRE 10 support.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2012 09:30PM by guenter.

Quote
bksening

Quote
rodocop
But KM hadn't mastered even GRE 2.0 so it has 'improvement space' at least up to Gecko 8-9 without losing compatibility :-)
More thoughts I'll keep to myself as I'm not a programmer...

Because KM should really "improve" for GRE 2.0, an outdated and slow rendering engine???? Is that something actually desired? Will it even be practical?

My other post was responding to the previous comment "Firefox 3.6 is still fully supported", which is talking about official support for FF versions, which actually is all about official support for the OSes they run on. I actually find it funny that Mozilla lists Win2K as a supported version, because that is end-of-life as well. Microsoft won't be providing support if any issues are found with Win2K.

And now FF3.6 is slated for EOL in April 2012, and an Extended Support Release (ESR) will be created based on FF10. At that point there will no longer be any Mozilla support for FF3.6.
roposal" rel="nofollow" >https://wiki.mozilla.org/Enterprise/Firefox/ExtendedSupportroposal

What kind of development will KM see in the next 4 months? Where will KM be headed after that? Hopefully KM will at least move to code based on FF10, instead of trying to work with FF3.6 code which is outdated and soon will not be supported anymore.

C++ is the magic word. Camino and K-Meleon both suffer from a lack. As Mozilla Corp. is really no longer as committed to open source as it was in the past, they have made it harder for 3rd party offshoots to survive. Embed, for all its problems, was a good thing for Mozilla Org's open source reputation; seemingly not so good an idea for Mozilla Corp. We're lucky that the original open source Mozilla browser, Mozilla Suite, aka Seamonkey, is still alive and kicking.

N

Yes, I am poignantly aware that KM is currently not supported by any active C++ coder. That's why I must concur with the comments floating around this forum that KM is basically a dead project, or on critical life-support.

@guenter, are you sure KM 1.6 can be finished without changing C code? Isn't that what desga2 is working on in the Beta version thread? Isn't C/C++ coding required to fix the setdefault stuff? Isn't the lack of a coder the whole reason 1.6/1.7 have been in Beta/Alpha for years?

By the way, there is no such thing as GRE 3.5. If I am correct, KM 1.6 uses Gecko 1.9.1, and KM 1.7 uses Gecko 1.9.2. FF4 is based on GRE 2.0, and the next version of GRE after that is v.5, and then onwards.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gecko_(layout_engine)#Usage

Regarding EOL software, that's just the way life is. I agree older EOL versions that no longer receive security patches are at risk for newer found vulnerabilities, but the EOL announcements are publicly made and users have to deal with it, each in their own ways. This applies to the EOL Windows OS'es and to the EOL Firefox versions and their associated GRE's, which in 4 months will be anything less than FF/GRE10.

Quote
ndebord
As Mozilla Corp. is really no longer as committed to open source as it was in the past, they have made it harder for 3rd party offshoots to survive. Embed, for all its problems, was a good thing for Mozilla Org's open source reputation

Mozilla's commitment to developing open-source software has nothing to do with making third party offshoots harder to survive.

Open-source development just means an organization (eg. Mozilla) develops software according to its own designs and goals. That source code is "open", which allows third parties to see how it is coded, and for third parties to copy the code and do what they want with it.

What a third party does with the open-source code is the responsibility of that third party, and whether they are successful or productive in using that code depends on the capabilities and faculties of the third party. There is no obligation whatsoever that the originating open-source organization needs to help or assist any third parties using its open-source code.

Specifically, Mozilla's Embed program was a test-harness to verify that a native-OS app can connect and communicate with the cross-platform rendering GRE engine. Mozilla's open-source reputation has nothing to do with and is not affected by any support or lack thereof of any test program that has never been designed for any specific outside use.

Quote
bksening

@guenter, are you sure KM 1.6 can be finished without changing C code? Isn't that what desga2 is working on in the Beta version thread? Isn't C/C++ coding required to fix the setdefault stuff? Isn't the lack of a coder the whole reason 1.6/1.7 have been in Beta/Alpha for years?

By the way, there is no such thing as GRE 3.5. If I am correct, KM 1.6 uses Gecko 1.9.1, and KM 1.7 uses Gecko 1.9.2. FF4 is based on GRE 2.0, and the next version of GRE after that is v.5, and then onwards.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gecko_(layout_engine)#Usage

Regarding EOL software, that's just the way life is. I agree older EOL versions that no longer receive security patches are at risk for newer found vulnerabilities, but the EOL announcements are publicly made and users have to deal with it, each in their own ways. This applies to the EOL Windows OS'es and to the EOL Firefox versions and their associated GRE's, which in 4 months will be anything less than FF/GRE10.

1.) Yes. There are AFAIK no c++ show stoppers for 1.6. Correct me if I am wrong.

I have no recent contact with desga2.

No c++ coding is required to change setdefaut.nsi. That is used for Nullsoft installer makers to create setdefault.exe. alain/jujuland has maintained and improved that part of the code since version 1.0. deadlock and jujuland know something about it and are trying to update it to XP SP3 and Vista/Win7. alain is using Linux wine now.

Obviously Dorian's lack of time stopped all c++ development. He was the only c++ coder that contributed to K-Meleon core since version 1.0. We ow him thanks for all versions since then.

2.) Sorry about mixing up Firefox and GRE number. Reason: You can use the Firefox sources to build a GRE for K-Meleon 1.6/1.7. GRE 1.9.1.x/1.9.2.x respectively.

3.) Imagine car producers to apply the same EOL policies as MS. Telling their customers that they waun't produce any spares and at the same time claiming their copyright and patents prevent 3 party vendors to step in.

That is what the current US copy right laws allow MS and other software vendors to do.

IMHO software patents & copy rights should end with the EOL of the product for which they were claimed.

BTW. The point I was trying to make is that MS EOL policy for past Win32 OSes is endangering their current Win32 customers systems also. And You can not just shrug that aspect of as "live is hard on old customers & software which is over its EOL".

Your answer to ndbord is IMHO missing an aspect.

For example Mozilla's MFC test harness and support was not only about testing but Mozilla felt that much of the success of MS HTML engine was due to the fact that it could be built/embeded into other applications.

Mozilla wanted to offer that also and not solely for altruistic reasons.

Many projects that have taken up this offer and spent many man hours into adapting their own software to it & were left standing in the rain recently.

They all would be better of if they would have stayed with MS HTML engine!
Mozilla has outed itself as unreliable.

K-Meleon is based on Mozilla MFCembed which is in turn based a Microsoft MFCembed for the MS HTML engine. Pity that we cannot revert to that easily. It would improve the projects chances.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2012 11:16AM by guenter.

In addition to what Guenter said, it is clear from the embed project itself that Mozilla was tired of embedding and wanted the derivatives to move on, perhaps to WebKit and the emphasis was to "prioritize Firefox" but this left Galeon*, Camino and K-Meleon to twist in the breeze.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mozilla.dev.embedding/c_NMcO-N8wo/discussion


*Galeon forked to Epiphany

P.S. Another thread from April 2011 which expands on Mozilla's dropping embed.

http://lwn.net/Articles/436412/

N



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2012 06:59PM by ndebord.

um firefox 3.6.26 has just been released 1/31/2012 PST.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2012 12:55AM by 4td8s.