I'm well aware of the smaller community, and that only a handful of developers participate in improving K-M, but is a published road map available for KM or is KM essentially little more than a hobbyists' browser? Who controls KM, developers or users? Etc.

For example, are there plans to migrate to a true tabs or multiple document interface?

Peabody,

Others I am sure will jump in here. KM is a philosophy. The idea that a macro script language is less resource hungry than XUL XPI extensions and more easily changed or written by end users. KM has always had just ONE developer at a time and a community of helpers. All volunteers. The community is an eclectic mix of just end users and those with programming skills of varying natures.

I would not characterize KM as a hobbyist browser, since the Gecko engine is the same throughout all the variations on the Mozilla Foundation's products. But by whatever name, it does exactly what it advertises and I find it useful.

For instance, I use the privacy toolbar to toggle images, color, Java, javascript, Popups, Cache, History, URL Bar History, Flash and I could use it for passwords too if I wished. I also use the accelerator macro file to load up some of my favorite external apps, such as: Cookie Monster, GUL, Wackget, Komposer, AIM and Popcorn for headers and Foxmail for Email. Aggreg8 is builtin, but that is just one RSS reader, there is another in use in a russian version of KM. I also have a lot of macros for URLS on menu keys and at last count, 151 search engines loaded up on a right click along with the revolving circle of 10 in the menu method. I'd use usenet if my cell provider allowed (T-Mobile EDGE).

(And I'm considered conservative in my personal modifications in KM).

N

Take my post with a grain of salt:
Only Dorian, kko and alain can truly answer

True tabs are planed (how soon? )
http://boisso.free.fr/kmeleon/#tabbed

There was other more immidiate interest such as modular macros
( which enable more users/devs to add work at the same time )
Accompanying this is possibly: Installable modules
( which gives users more influence on their k-m & makes inital package smaller ).

Better language support has also value/priority
( the ppl doing the recent work do not speak en-US ).

What is essential to the browser users doing the work
( that is what a dev is here ) comes IMHO first.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2007 08:34AM by guenter.

I'm not a developer nor am I qualified to pretend to be one. Thus, I am not part of the closed loop known as K-M developers. I'm merely an interested user. I see much potential with K-M, but the development pace is slow. I understand the need for additional developers, which is why I mentioned my own qualifications. I'd help if I could, but I am not a developer.

Many of the improvement requests and bug posts at this forum are related to K-M using layers rather than tabs. Seems to me that many usability issues would disappear if tabs were made a high priority. I much prefer K-M over Firefox, but K-M lacks at least a dozen features available in Firefox (with or without extensions). There does exist a tabbed version of K-M (CCF), but that version is supported only by one person and I have had only mixed success getting that version to function on my box. Seems that if the tab-related code from that version was migrated to the official K-M, the CCF developer then help could with the overall K-M development rather than waste time with a tangent version.

Layers was once upon a time a slick coding workaround to the old-style Netscape browser, but today, with tab-based browsing well established, is a novelty at best, and at times a frustrating novelty.

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There was other more immediate interest such as modular macros

Probably useful, but to the typical user, tabs are far more useful. This seems more true now that IE provides a tabbed environment.

Quote

Better language support has also value/priority

Seems other browsers, such as Seamonkey and Firefox have already bridged that gap. Why not just migrate and tweak that code?

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What is essential to the browser users doing the work ( that is what a dev is here ) comes IMHO first.

I understand and accept that motive, but if that is the case then K-M ought to be advertised as such and not be allowed to lead potential users into believing that K-M is a community driven project like Firefox or Seamonkey.

Perhaps the time has arrived for the K-M developers and users to decide whether K-M is going to be community driven or developer driven. I'd like to see a sticky poll where users can list their wishes and then over time allow all users to vote on those desired features.

Please understand that I like K-M and want to see K-M improved. K-M certainly performs as advertised, is far more responsive than the sluggish XUL-based browsers, but is lacking many features that many browser users today expect to be standard. I'm not trying to stir up any hornet's nest, just trying to encourage some meaningful discussion.

To explain further what Guenter wrote :
Having true tabs instead of layers may well be desirable.
This is planned for future versions.
But as we have only one full developer, namely Dorian,
it depends completely on his possibility to spend
the necessary time to achieve that.
K-Meleon can not be compared with Firefox, where much
more people do the development.
A new user can decide himself, if he is satisfied by
the current layer structure instead of tabs.
Many won't even be aware of the difference between them.
If he is not satisfied, he can easily go back to Firefox.
But on the other hand, the macro structure out of the box
surpasses Firefox in several ways. This is the strength
that K-Meleon has: Macros can be created by many people
in the community, not just by one core developer, or
even, as I see it personally, by advanced users themselves.
So I see the concerned user rather as a person, that
looks for a personally modifiable browser, and not as
a user that wants a browser already perfectly customized.
Of course, if there was a bigger developers team, this
would also be an option, but I don't think, that more
is possible in the actual situation, and Dorian and
his helpers do a very good job.
Fred

Like Fred - I am no dev & I am not qualified to be one - most of all not qualified to answer for them. Hope i also do not disturb the hornets.

Modular macros: Probably useful, but to the typical user, tabs are far more useful.

I disagree, modular macros are more useful: You can copy them into macros folder - e. g. You want "open in IE" and I want "open in Opera".
By copying to macros we can each have our pick. (open in: FFox & Opera=by alain)
The typical user can not create macros himself but i am sure able to copy/transfer one to macros folder.

Language: Why not just migrate and tweak that code
1.) k-m solution is suited to translate to local language e. g. from k-m macros.
2.) Moz method has IMHO more overhead / i have looked into XUL/chrome-i am sure
( we do not want a sluggish browser ).
3.) we use the Mozilla "code" when it is less work.

K-Meleon is prossibly more open and community driven then any other browser. This is IMHO Dorian's achievement. Any can contibute the things he wants to have in the browser: this has even come more true lately & that is what the modularisation will be good for in future. No dev or user has to catenate it to a 50 kb macros.cfg anymore. You can create somthing & publish it here in Wiki or send it to a dev; Community driven does not mean ( to me ) that the community drives or tells the devs what to do but all in the community try to help the devs if they can.

Please try to understand - when i want something: i try to create it or a proof of concept as good as i can and i offer it for inspection and perhaps later use. I personally can not contribute much, but i am allowed to try. Our community also endorces publication of private alterations and so gives them to common use. Many things were private first: e. g. a mimetypes editor. As too my experiance our devs took up everthing that was created and wanted by the k-meleon users. They have also helped to create, debug or improve.

K-Meleon only has come so far by that. And You like we all are invited to contribute. We are few, & to answer a newbie's questions in forum is also essential for the "quality of OUR product".

Some of this was different once - at least there was argument about some things.

p. s. Please try to understand also that unless we talked in our own languages we non-english would feel to loose time to what for us seems endless and not "meaningfull" discussions. For us it simply takes too much longer to write English. IMHO this time is better invested into answering, helping or coding.

for info: kko wanted the modular macros and was able to create them
(tabs are c code - only Dorian can create new c code: it was not have tab or macros ).

----

Some late Afterthoughts: more features more code. Modularity even helps against that. Some ppl here still like 0.7 and 0.8 and feel that all we needed after these were new GREs on a regular base. Eventually only features wanted by very few were not yet done. Even users that like more features may reach this point eventually.
All added code has a prize - AFAIK it costs some performance/speed - maybe not much but some.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2007 06:55PM by guenter.

Guenter,

KM 0.8xx was a fine piece of coding. Have yet to play with the new alpha and so have no opinion on the new modular macros, but if it allows you to incorporate all your old macros and reduce overhead at the same time, I'm all for it.

As for the community of KM. It seems to wax and wane from time to time. We really do need to find a way to fix older themes and the like to work with the changed platform. Moving from KM 0.9 to KM 1.0xx was a major change and not everything made the transition.

N

Probably an OT, but is it possible (or is anyone thinking of) porting KM to WindowsCE-based? I'd love to have KM on my PocketPC or Windows Mobile based smartphone...

May be should have a blog page about KM Road Map , To Do List and many usefull things about KM . Imho more better then silence .

hello from amsterdam,nl.
hi there just installed vista and im wondering if a 64 bit version of k-meleon will be available in the near future.
k-meleon= my favorite .
lots of thanks and respect to al developers.
keep it up!