Development :
K-Meleon Web Browser Forum
As I see, the community had grown up and gets ready to the new step in KM evolution.
So it seems a good idea to start new thread devoted to the organizational issues, offers, suggestions and other community-related stuff.
Some words about myself.
I'm KM user from Russia. Knowing it since 0.7 and using as main browser since 1.02 thanks to Quicksilver Tears KM 1.02 Pro.
I'm not a programmer anyway, sorry. Just power user, able to be beta-tester and take part in popularization as well as planning the promotion campaign of product.
I have some thoughts about KM future and how to let it survive (this is closely related to the development as well as promo things).
Some time ago it seemed KM dies but today I saw new wave of enthusiasm and passion in words of community members. So we can join our forces and Reload KM Matrix or just try to :-)
What I see - there are much 'holes' which could be filled without programming skills. KM needs:
- renewed main site
- special rich-media promo site
- some crucial forum updates: new stickies, FAQs and more
- may be some how-to's with actual tasks and tweaks
This is field where I can be useful member of community.
More general I think KM needs new resources - users, developers, media, money, partners, etc.
And I'm ready to write down my vision of next steps in order to present it for your discussion, folks!
Sorry for some audaciousness and overtaking upon myself but I just want KM being alive forever!
And I'm extremely grateful to all who spends time and efforts to support this beauty!
Hi rodocop
as you can see nobody answered here which is very sad.
The truth is there are no devs here anymore. Switch from Gecko 1.9 to Gecko 2.0 needs skilled devs and since Mozilla killed embedding support for Gecko http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?2,115733 it's impossible to develop further this great browser.
I really appreciate your offer to help but it looks like K-Meleon has died
http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?1,119312
not completely dead, R.I.P.
I still use recent unofficial-KM builds that Hao or Fred make on some of my machines.
OK,
let's look wider.
Yes, KM seems to be half-dead. Not the product but the community. "Half-' - as there is at least some minor development and, more important, some new passion from community members.
That is not enough, sure. We lack of developers - you are right. And I'm not the one too, so I can't move KM forward in this way.
But I can plan product development, so what can be done in our case?
My answer is below:
Some time ago the situation was comparatively fine - KM grew up and Mozilla was a friend. Now all have changed in unpleasant way.
But as I see, main reason of stagnation isn't in Mozilla's decision. It lies in the area of K-Meleon's popularity and penetration.
1) FF still is an open-source. If some code isn't supported anymore by Mozilla, this don't mean this code is lost. But you still need developers - if you have ones, then you can produce this code instead of Mozilla coders. Am I wrong?
2) How to to attract new developers? You know there are two ways:
- pay money
- be interesting and challenging
We wouldn't discuss first way - it is unsuitable for free community (but if my business project would survive and become profitable, I definitely will try to develop KM in paid manner too. Sadly, we are now just in startup stage and no future is guaranteed).
3) So, how to be interesting and challenging?
Here you'll need be at least informative, penetrative and unique. Some years ago there were relatively much of KM-related buzz.
The best point was when KM had got into browser-selection sheet for Windows.
But then it's popularity stopped to rise and the last year without any official updates almost kills public interest to KM.
So I see one way to reload - promote KM in all ways, make it closer and more friendly to user.
We need to tell something MAIN to potential newcomers. We need change the црщду paradigm of KM's uniqueness.
Reality we face with is that average user doesn't need 'extremely confugurable' browser - he needs 'simply usable and friendly browser with personalization'.
In other words, users want LIGHT browser (in any sense). And this is our chance because KM have something to offer here!
We just need to see it and show it in terms of consumer not developer.
to be continued...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2012 10:53AM by rodocop.
We have much to say about KM but we are silent.
We have the fully outdated version as main offer named 'last stable release'
We have ugly-looking official site which seems to be addressed to 'linux geeks of XX century' not modern consumer, addicted to rainbow-allmoving-flashed or just modern and stylish looking pages.
Is this the way to popularity? You know the answer.
We have a bit of time to change something, to attract new users and developers.
We need to promote KM as fully actual browser, light, simple and customizable in the same time.
We need to promote newest builds (even unofficial - what is 'official' at all if project 'parents' leave it?) as powerful and mobile tool (being fully portable software) with optimal balance between advantages and limitations (no one browser is ideal now).
On the other hand it would be good to start some fundraising and investment search. So the project must be - as I've stated earlier - interesting and challenging.
Here I have at least one amusing idea which is connected with our browser's name/mascot
to be continued...
But it's vitably needed to improve usability side of K-Meleon.
KM needs such things as visually customised toolbars (where you can arrange not only bars but the buttons too by the mouse not by config files), consistent toolbar standard (making possible to change skin without need to rearrange toolbars), more convenient extensions manager and session manager - and so on.
But it all can be done in background - KM has all the primary functionality of modern browser (OK - almost all :-).
And it CAN be attractive. It's just the point of positioning and communications.
K-Meleon vitally needs the shift to a newer GRE.
That can be only done by a c++ coder that has time.
Until that is done K-Meleon does not need new features.
Because the project will end without new GREs.
1.6 is AFAIK more or less finished but the GRE is already partly outdated.
1.7 still has major bugs in about:config and Errors Console.
As it is now end users download 1.5.4, see that pages like Yahoo Mail, Facebook features... do not work. So they de-install it and never come back.
And users that did once help, did translations, or posted 100nds of times in the forums have already gone away totally or stopped end user support.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2011 08:12PM by guenter.
Ðow much working time would it require - how do you estimate this, guenter? Is it one-time or continuous task?
I have no clue how long it takes. I am no developer.
With the help of deadlock and handouts from Dorian I managed to get the sources of 1.6 to compile. But my compiling always got stuck on 1.7 which is for a newer GRE. When I tried for a yet newer GRE even more was broken.
So I think that it may be that it requires time for each new GRE.
But I do not know.
Another problem is that I was not able to compile a stable exe.
Dorian even gave me his project files when he did not have time to help.
No luck.
deadlock had the same stability problems. So he invested time to change the code.
But I have no idea how far he got nor whether he still works on it.
Â
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/29/2016 07:12PM by adodupan.
I'm not a software developer,but just a common user!
I really love this project,but I could do nothing to it,really hope it would continue!
I would like to help, im a web/graphic designer, i could help with interface, etc, check out my site, www.id820.com, thanks!
Chanson,
One idea:
What we could use is a C++ graduate student who would be willing to try and in turn get some cred for the effort.
N
@ ndebord
It seems that no one skilled in C++ is interested in KM now!
And my major is economics.
Chanson,
That's Good! Now go out there and get us some private equity types and we'll easily get a C++ programmer! <VBG>
N
Â
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/29/2016 07:13PM by adodupan.
id820,
is it really your chameleon pic on Global reptile? I've seen this one in the google search and have tried to make an icon but I'm not illustrator and it gets unaccurate.
Can you try to produce some icons based on this picture?
The ball is in your roof.. Develop a friendly and useful browser is a good challenger... I think the project needs your help!...
K-Meleon development related discussions.
K-Meleon reloaded?
Posted by:
rodocop
Date: December 01, 2011 04:16PM
As I see, the community had grown up and gets ready to the new step in KM evolution.
So it seems a good idea to start new thread devoted to the organizational issues, offers, suggestions and other community-related stuff.
Some words about myself.
I'm KM user from Russia. Knowing it since 0.7 and using as main browser since 1.02 thanks to Quicksilver Tears KM 1.02 Pro.
I'm not a programmer anyway, sorry. Just power user, able to be beta-tester and take part in popularization as well as planning the promotion campaign of product.
I have some thoughts about KM future and how to let it survive (this is closely related to the development as well as promo things).
Some time ago it seemed KM dies but today I saw new wave of enthusiasm and passion in words of community members. So we can join our forces and Reload KM Matrix or just try to :-)
What I see - there are much 'holes' which could be filled without programming skills. KM needs:
- renewed main site
- special rich-media promo site
- some crucial forum updates: new stickies, FAQs and more
- may be some how-to's with actual tasks and tweaks
This is field where I can be useful member of community.
More general I think KM needs new resources - users, developers, media, money, partners, etc.
And I'm ready to write down my vision of next steps in order to present it for your discussion, folks!
Sorry for some audaciousness and overtaking upon myself but I just want KM being alive forever!
And I'm extremely grateful to all who spends time and efforts to support this beauty!
Re: K-Meleon reloaded?
Posted by:
R.I.P.
Date: December 04, 2011 05:18PM
Hi rodocop
as you can see nobody answered here which is very sad.
The truth is there are no devs here anymore. Switch from Gecko 1.9 to Gecko 2.0 needs skilled devs and since Mozilla killed embedding support for Gecko http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?2,115733 it's impossible to develop further this great browser.
I really appreciate your offer to help but it looks like K-Meleon has died
http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?1,119312
Re: K-Meleon reloaded?
Posted by:
4td8s
Date: December 04, 2011 06:48PM
Quote
R.I.P.
I really appreciate your offer to help but it looks like K-Meleon has died
not completely dead, R.I.P.
I still use recent unofficial-KM builds that Hao or Fred make on some of my machines.
Re: K-Meleon reloaded?
Posted by:
rodocop
Date: December 04, 2011 11:13PM
OK,
let's look wider.
Yes, KM seems to be half-dead. Not the product but the community. "Half-' - as there is at least some minor development and, more important, some new passion from community members.
That is not enough, sure. We lack of developers - you are right. And I'm not the one too, so I can't move KM forward in this way.
Re: K-Meleon reloaded?
Posted by:
rodocop
Date: December 04, 2011 11:26PM
But I can plan product development, so what can be done in our case?
My answer is below:
Some time ago the situation was comparatively fine - KM grew up and Mozilla was a friend. Now all have changed in unpleasant way.
But as I see, main reason of stagnation isn't in Mozilla's decision. It lies in the area of K-Meleon's popularity and penetration.
1) FF still is an open-source. If some code isn't supported anymore by Mozilla, this don't mean this code is lost. But you still need developers - if you have ones, then you can produce this code instead of Mozilla coders. Am I wrong?
2) How to to attract new developers? You know there are two ways:
- pay money
- be interesting and challenging
We wouldn't discuss first way - it is unsuitable for free community (but if my business project would survive and become profitable, I definitely will try to develop KM in paid manner too. Sadly, we are now just in startup stage and no future is guaranteed).
3) So, how to be interesting and challenging?
Here you'll need be at least informative, penetrative and unique. Some years ago there were relatively much of KM-related buzz.
The best point was when KM had got into browser-selection sheet for Windows.
But then it's popularity stopped to rise and the last year without any official updates almost kills public interest to KM.
So I see one way to reload - promote KM in all ways, make it closer and more friendly to user.
We need to tell something MAIN to potential newcomers. We need change the црщду paradigm of KM's uniqueness.
Reality we face with is that average user doesn't need 'extremely confugurable' browser - he needs 'simply usable and friendly browser with personalization'.
In other words, users want LIGHT browser (in any sense). And this is our chance because KM have something to offer here!
We just need to see it and show it in terms of consumer not developer.
to be continued...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2012 10:53AM by rodocop.
Re: K-Meleon reloaded?
Posted by:
rodocop
Date: December 04, 2011 11:54PM
We have much to say about KM but we are silent.
We have the fully outdated version as main offer named 'last stable release'
We have ugly-looking official site which seems to be addressed to 'linux geeks of XX century' not modern consumer, addicted to rainbow-allmoving-flashed or just modern and stylish looking pages.
Is this the way to popularity? You know the answer.
We have a bit of time to change something, to attract new users and developers.
We need to promote KM as fully actual browser, light, simple and customizable in the same time.
We need to promote newest builds (even unofficial - what is 'official' at all if project 'parents' leave it?) as powerful and mobile tool (being fully portable software) with optimal balance between advantages and limitations (no one browser is ideal now).
On the other hand it would be good to start some fundraising and investment search. So the project must be - as I've stated earlier - interesting and challenging.
Here I have at least one amusing idea which is connected with our browser's name/mascot
to be continued...
Re: K-Meleon reloaded?
Posted by:
rodocop
Date: December 05, 2011 12:16AM
But it's vitably needed to improve usability side of K-Meleon.
KM needs such things as visually customised toolbars (where you can arrange not only bars but the buttons too by the mouse not by config files), consistent toolbar standard (making possible to change skin without need to rearrange toolbars), more convenient extensions manager and session manager - and so on.
But it all can be done in background - KM has all the primary functionality of modern browser (OK - almost all :-).
And it CAN be attractive. It's just the point of positioning and communications.
Re: K-Meleon reloaded?
Posted by:
guenter
Date: December 05, 2011 06:18PM
K-Meleon vitally needs the shift to a newer GRE.
That can be only done by a c++ coder that has time.
Until that is done K-Meleon does not need new features.
Because the project will end without new GREs.
1.6 is AFAIK more or less finished but the GRE is already partly outdated.
1.7 still has major bugs in about:config and Errors Console.
As it is now end users download 1.5.4, see that pages like Yahoo Mail, Facebook features... do not work. So they de-install it and never come back.
And users that did once help, did translations, or posted 100nds of times in the forums have already gone away totally or stopped end user support.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2011 08:12PM by guenter.
Re: K-Meleon reloaded?
Posted by:
rodocop
Date: December 06, 2011 08:21AM
Quote
guenter
K-Meleon vitally needs the shift to a newer GRE.
That can be only done by a c++ coder that has time.
Ðow much working time would it require - how do you estimate this, guenter? Is it one-time or continuous task?
Re: K-Meleon reloaded?
Posted by:
guenter
Date: December 06, 2011 09:18AM
Quote
rodocop
Quote
guenter
K-Meleon vitally needs the shift to a newer GRE.
That can be only done by a c++ coder that has time.
Ðow much working time would it require - how do you estimate this, guenter? Is it one-time or continuous task?
I have no clue how long it takes. I am no developer.
With the help of deadlock and handouts from Dorian I managed to get the sources of 1.6 to compile. But my compiling always got stuck on 1.7 which is for a newer GRE. When I tried for a yet newer GRE even more was broken.
So I think that it may be that it requires time for each new GRE.
But I do not know.
Another problem is that I was not able to compile a stable exe.
Dorian even gave me his project files when he did not have time to help.
No luck.
deadlock had the same stability problems. So he invested time to change the code.
But I have no idea how far he got nor whether he still works on it.
Â
Posted by:
adodupan
Date: December 13, 2011 03:32AM
Â
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/29/2016 07:12PM by adodupan.
Re: K-Meleon reloaded?
Posted by:
Chanson Yu
Date: December 13, 2011 05:27AM
I'm not a software developer,but just a common user!
I really love this project,but I could do nothing to it,really hope it would continue!
Re: K-Meleon reloaded?
Posted by:
id820
Date: January 11, 2012 04:24AM
I would like to help, im a web/graphic designer, i could help with interface, etc, check out my site, www.id820.com, thanks!
Re: K-Meleon reloaded?
Posted by:
ndebord
Date: January 12, 2012 04:24AM
Quote
Chanson Yu
I'm not a software developer,but just a common user!
I really love this project,but I could do nothing to it,really hope it would continue!
Chanson,
One idea:
What we could use is a C++ graduate student who would be willing to try and in turn get some cred for the effort.
N
Re: K-Meleon reloaded?
Posted by:
Chanson Yu
Date: January 12, 2012 06:36AM
@ ndebord
It seems that no one skilled in C++ is interested in KM now!
And my major is economics.
Re: K-Meleon reloaded?
Posted by:
ndebord
Date: January 12, 2012 03:41PM
Quote
Chanson Yu
@ ndebord
It seems that no one skilled in C++ is interested in KM now!
And my major is economics.
Chanson,
That's Good! Now go out there and get us some private equity types and we'll easily get a C++ programmer! <VBG>
N
Â
Posted by:
adodupan
Date: January 12, 2012 08:18PM
Â
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/29/2016 07:13PM by adodupan.
Re: K-Meleon reloaded?
Posted by:
rodocop
Date: January 13, 2012 10:51AM
id820,
is it really your chameleon pic on Global reptile? I've seen this one in the google search and have tried to make an icon but I'm not illustrator and it gets unaccurate.
Can you try to produce some icons based on this picture?
Re: K-Meleon reloaded?
Posted by:
juanjo
Date: January 27, 2012 08:38PM
Snuz2,id820Quote
snuz2
Global reptile +1!
The ball is in your roof.. Develop a friendly and useful browser is a good challenger... I think the project needs your help!...
English