Development :
K-Meleon Web Browser Forum
Hi,
Sorry if this is stupid question but if K-Meleon happens to regain traction in terms of development again, officially, will XP still be supported? I don't really want to upgrade to 7 on this netbook (Atom N270 + 1GB RAM) since it'd run awfully and Linux runs pretty badly too as far as I remember on similar specs on Xubuntu 15.04 without increasing the amount of video RAM (GMA 945). I don't want to screw things up by doing that...
Anyway - my point is, a lot of people running XP literally cannot run anything else decently enough, so a lightweight browser that actually supports sites decently (I tried Otter Browser and it wouldn't work with a lot of stuff), would be very handy.
I don't mind testing current builds on XP SP3 Home, in fact I'd like to volunteer to do that!
Thanks ^^
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2017 11:15AM by IzayoiFlandre.
For now XP is surely supported by KM. What will be tomorrow? Nobody knows. Even whether it will appear new KM version or not. So...
We can't predict the future. However, K-Meleon is based on Firefox ESR.
Starting with version 59 (March 2018), Firefox ESR won't support XP and Vista anymore.
In the worst case there's also the possibility to just keep the old system and keep a not quite brandnew browser version :cool: It will keep working decently for quite awhile, until one by one the most hyped websites will slowly drop some features. But a year or two should still be bearable.
Must admit, by now for example KM1.6 is becoming a real pain, even with only basic needs and dislike of facebook etc., meanwhile even important stuff is breaking, and am running out of tricks and workarounds
But hey, for the first 2 years or so didn't miss a thing, and was still fully alive! So cannot help shaking a bit my head in amazement if people seem to think the world and their computers are breaking apart INSTANTLY if they don't have the lastest greatest version anymore ;-)
Yeah, I don't really use that many of the mainstream websites in the first place, so I'm probably off quite fine for some time. I wonder if any work on maintaining XP support would be done, technically continuing the 52.x.x ESR branch, with K-Meleon some day... We'll never know
For diaspora*, mastodon, forums and basically anything that doesn't require huge chunks of hipsterscript then it works fine
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2017 05:33PM by IzayoiFlandre.
The problem is not XP, the problem is Firefox Quantum.
https://wiki.mozilla.org/Quantum
I am expecting next Chrome movement.
However, KMeleon is beautiful as it is.
Beauty is an ancient concept itself.
Just my two cents. J.G.
:cool:
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2017 06:07PM by J.G..
And Moonchild's fork of last non-Rust Firefox source works quite well in XP with some little source patches. See: http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/177125-my-build-of-new-moon-temp-name-aka-pale-moon-for-xp/?do=findComment&comment=1147552
Firefox 57 Missing APIs in XP (* in front of DLL = missing DLL)
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2017 01:47AM by roytam1.
I probably wouldn't use Firefox on XP anyway given that there's absolutely no way to turn off the forced cleartype font rendering.
That said I've been using XP builds of Pale Moon from MSFN and they're working fine ^^
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2017 09:01AM by IzayoiFlandre.
Completely agree. :cool:
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2017 11:49AM by J.G..
Have in mind that smooth font rendering (MS ClearTypeâ„¢) involves two different controls.
One is at the Browser level; the other is at the system level.
You can disable the browser setting preference (gfx.font_rendering.cleartype.always_use_for_content) but if don't disable the option in the system setting, the fonts will be still smooth.
And the opposite. If you disable the system setting, but don't do it in the browser, fonts will be still smooth.
By default, ClearTypeâ„¢ is disabled in K-meleon, at least 75.x. In Firefox it is enabled.
Also, by default, Gecko, in K-meleon and Firefox, is set to smooth fonts for downloaded fonts by the preference (gfx.font_rendering.cleartype.use_for_downloadable_fonts), that you should set to false as well.
In the particular case of XP, I haven't tested myself, but shouldn't differ from 2000 and in 2000 works.
roytam1,
I just want say you (and Moonchild sure) great thanks for your Basilisk XPmod - it's really enjoyable browser even for such hyperloyal K-Meleonaire like me!
I could not agree more (using it on XP SP2)! Thanks @roytam1
I am also waiting for rodocop's own kmeleon upgrade.
soccerfan
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2017 09:33PM by soccerfan.
+1 :cool:
http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/list.php?19
Sticky: [TEST BUILD] K-Meleon 76 on Goanna 3.4.1 (Build 20171223)
Off-Topic: @ROYTAM1: Restoring XP and Vista support to Waterfox 56?
The second topic leads You to people discussing the core of the problems.
For parts of the GRE Mozilla starts using a programming language (RUST) that is only partially implemented on XP. And we are reaching a point where Microsoft the producer of the main C++ main compiler and programming tools does not support all it older products e.g. XP any more.
So You need highly specialised and skilled people that create and maintain a fork of Mozilla and K-Meleon that supports XP. Not even these people themselves know whether they have time and other resources to make the two browsers available.
Yes for some time but how long?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/25/2017 09:51AM by guenter.
K-Meleon development related discussions.
How long will XP support be available?
Posted by:
IzayoiFlandre
Date: November 18, 2017 11:13AM
Hi,
Sorry if this is stupid question but if K-Meleon happens to regain traction in terms of development again, officially, will XP still be supported? I don't really want to upgrade to 7 on this netbook (Atom N270 + 1GB RAM) since it'd run awfully and Linux runs pretty badly too as far as I remember on similar specs on Xubuntu 15.04 without increasing the amount of video RAM (GMA 945). I don't want to screw things up by doing that...
Anyway - my point is, a lot of people running XP literally cannot run anything else decently enough, so a lightweight browser that actually supports sites decently (I tried Otter Browser and it wouldn't work with a lot of stuff), would be very handy.
I don't mind testing current builds on XP SP3 Home, in fact I'd like to volunteer to do that!
Thanks ^^
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2017 11:15AM by IzayoiFlandre.
Re: How long will XP support be available?
Posted by:
rodocop
Date: November 18, 2017 12:49PM
For now XP is surely supported by KM. What will be tomorrow? Nobody knows. Even whether it will appear new KM version or not. So...
Re: How long will XP support be available?
Posted by:
Yogi
Date: November 18, 2017 01:56PM
We can't predict the future. However, K-Meleon is based on Firefox ESR.
Starting with version 59 (March 2018), Firefox ESR won't support XP and Vista anymore.
Re: How long will XP support be available?
Posted by:
siria
Date: November 18, 2017 05:12PM
In the worst case there's also the possibility to just keep the old system and keep a not quite brandnew browser version :cool: It will keep working decently for quite awhile, until one by one the most hyped websites will slowly drop some features. But a year or two should still be bearable.
Must admit, by now for example KM1.6 is becoming a real pain, even with only basic needs and dislike of facebook etc., meanwhile even important stuff is breaking, and am running out of tricks and workarounds
But hey, for the first 2 years or so didn't miss a thing, and was still fully alive! So cannot help shaking a bit my head in amazement if people seem to think the world and their computers are breaking apart INSTANTLY if they don't have the lastest greatest version anymore ;-)
Re: How long will XP support be available?
Posted by:
IzayoiFlandre
Date: November 18, 2017 05:32PM
Yeah, I don't really use that many of the mainstream websites in the first place, so I'm probably off quite fine for some time. I wonder if any work on maintaining XP support would be done, technically continuing the 52.x.x ESR branch, with K-Meleon some day... We'll never know
For diaspora*, mastodon, forums and basically anything that doesn't require huge chunks of hipsterscript then it works fine
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2017 05:33PM by IzayoiFlandre.
Re: How long will XP support be available?
Posted by:
J.G.
Date: November 18, 2017 06:07PM
The problem is not XP, the problem is Firefox Quantum.
https://wiki.mozilla.org/Quantum
I am expecting next Chrome movement.
However, KMeleon is beautiful as it is.
Beauty is an ancient concept itself.
Just my two cents. J.G.
:cool:
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2017 06:07PM by J.G..
Re: How long will XP support be available?
Posted by:
roytam1
Date: November 22, 2017 01:43AM
Yes. They make use of Win7+ APIs in 57, making it hard to backport to XP.Quote
J.G.
The problem is not XP, the problem is Firefox Quantum.
https://wiki.mozilla.org/Quantum
I am expecting next Chrome movement.
However, KMeleon is beautiful as it is.
Beauty is an ancient concept itself.
Just my two cents. J.G.
:cool:
And Moonchild's fork of last non-Rust Firefox source works quite well in XP with some little source patches. See: http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/177125-my-build-of-new-moon-temp-name-aka-pale-moon-for-xp/?do=findComment&comment=1147552
Firefox 57 Missing APIs in XP (* in front of DLL = missing DLL)
In MOZGLUE.DLL: KERNEL32.DLL InitializeConditionVariable WakeConditionVariable WakeAllConditionVariable SleepConditionVariableCS InitializeCriticalSectionEx GetTickCount64 In XUL.DLL: KERNEL32.DLL SleepConditionVariableSRW WakeConditionVariable InitializeConditionVariable SleepConditionVariableCS WakeAllConditionVariable K32QueryWorkingSet K32GetProcessMemoryInfo GetCurrencyFormatEx GetNumberFormatEx ResolveLocaleName GetDateFormatEx GetTimeFormatEx GetUserDefaultLocaleName LocaleNameToLCID GetLocaleInfoEx GetUserPreferredUILanguages LCIDToLocaleName InitializeCriticalSectionEx AcquireSRWLockShared AcquireSRWLockExclusive ReleaseSRWLockShared ReleaseSRWLockExclusive InitializeSRWLock TryAcquireSRWLockExclusive K32EnumProcessModules K32GetModuleFileNameExW K32GetProcessImageFileNameW GetFinalPathNameByHandleW InitOnceExecuteOnce GetProcessIdOfThread QueryFullProcessImageNameW K32GetModuleInformation USER32.DLL GetTouchInputInfo RegisterTouchWindow GetGestureInfo CloseGestureInfoHandle SetGestureConfig UnregisterPowerSettingNotification RegisterPowerSettingNotification CloseTouchInputHandle ADVAPI32.DLL RegGetValueW SHELL32.DLL SHGetKnownFolderPath SHOpenWithDialog SHQueryUserNotificationState SHGetPropertyStoreForWindow SetCurrentProcessExplicitAppUserModelID SHCreateItemFromParsingName SHGetStockIconInfo *AVRT.DLL AvRevertMmThreadCharacteristics AvSetMmThreadCharacteristicsA OLE32.DLL CoGetApartmentType WS2_32.DLL inet_pton inet_ntop *DWMAPI.DLL DwmSetIconicThumbnail DwmSetIconicLivePreviewBitmap DwmInvalidateIconicBitmaps DwmGetCompositionTimingInfo DwmIsCompositionEnabled DwmFlush DwmSetWindowAttribute DwmDefWindowProc DwmExtendFrameIntoClientArea DwmGetWindowAttribute UXTHEME.DLL BeginPanningFeedback EndPanningFeedback UpdatePanningFeedback *API-MS-WIN-CORE-WINRT-L1-1-0.DLL RoGetActivationFactory *API-MS-WIN-CORE-WINRT-STRING-L1-1-0.DLL WindowsCreateStringReference
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2017 01:47AM by roytam1.
Re: How long will XP support be available?
Posted by:
IzayoiFlandre
Date: November 22, 2017 09:00AM
I probably wouldn't use Firefox on XP anyway given that there's absolutely no way to turn off the forced cleartype font rendering.
That said I've been using XP builds of Pale Moon from MSFN and they're working fine ^^
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2017 09:01AM by IzayoiFlandre.
Re: How long will XP support be available?
Posted by:
J.G.
Date: November 22, 2017 11:48AM
Quote
roytam1
(...)Quote
J.G.
The problem is not XP, the problem is Firefox Quantum.
(...)
And Moonchild's fork of last non-Rust Firefox source works quite well in XP with some little source patches. See: http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/177125-my-build-of-new-moon-temp-name-aka-pale-moon-for-xp/?do=findComment&comment=1147552
(...)
[/code]
Quote
IzayoiFlandre
I probably wouldn't use Firefox on XP anyway given that there's absolutely no way to turn off the forced cleartype font rendering.
That said I've been using XP builds of Pale Moon from MSFN and they're working fine ^^
Completely agree. :cool:
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2017 11:49AM by J.G..
Re: How long will XP support be available?
Posted by:
JohnHell
Date: November 22, 2017 06:17PM
Quote
IzayoiFlandre
I probably wouldn't use Firefox on XP anyway given that there's absolutely no way to turn off the forced cleartype font rendering.
Have in mind that smooth font rendering (MS ClearTypeâ„¢) involves two different controls.
One is at the Browser level; the other is at the system level.
You can disable the browser setting preference (gfx.font_rendering.cleartype.always_use_for_content) but if don't disable the option in the system setting, the fonts will be still smooth.
And the opposite. If you disable the system setting, but don't do it in the browser, fonts will be still smooth.
By default, ClearTypeâ„¢ is disabled in K-meleon, at least 75.x. In Firefox it is enabled.
Also, by default, Gecko, in K-meleon and Firefox, is set to smooth fonts for downloaded fonts by the preference (gfx.font_rendering.cleartype.use_for_downloadable_fonts), that you should set to false as well.
In the particular case of XP, I haven't tested myself, but shouldn't differ from 2000 and in 2000 works.
Re: How long will XP support be available?
Posted by:
rodocop
Date: November 23, 2017 06:45PM
roytam1,
I just want say you (and Moonchild sure) great thanks for your Basilisk XPmod - it's really enjoyable browser even for such hyperloyal K-Meleonaire like me!
Re: How long will XP support be available?
Posted by:
soccerfan
Date: November 23, 2017 06:55PM
Quote
rodocop
roytam1,
I just want say you (and Moonchild sure) great thanks for your Basilisk XPmod - it's really enjoyable browser even for such hyperloyal K-Meleonaire like me!
I could not agree more (using it on XP SP2)! Thanks @roytam1
I am also waiting for rodocop's own kmeleon upgrade.
soccerfan
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2017 09:33PM by soccerfan.
Re: How long will XP support be available?
Posted by:
J.G.
Date: November 24, 2017 01:42PM
Quote
soccerfan
I could not agree more (using it on XP SP2)! Thanks @roytam1Quote
rodocop
roytam1,
I just want say you (and Moonchild sure) great thanks for your Basilisk XPmod - it's really enjoyable browser even for such hyperloyal K-Meleonaire like me!
I am also waiting for rodocop's own kmeleon upgrade.
+1 :cool:
Re: How long will XP support be available?
Posted by:
guenter
Date: December 25, 2017 09:47AM
http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/list.php?19
Sticky: [TEST BUILD] K-Meleon 76 on Goanna 3.4.1 (Build 20171223)
Off-Topic: @ROYTAM1: Restoring XP and Vista support to Waterfox 56?
The second topic leads You to people discussing the core of the problems.
For parts of the GRE Mozilla starts using a programming language (RUST) that is only partially implemented on XP. And we are reaching a point where Microsoft the producer of the main C++ main compiler and programming tools does not support all it older products e.g. XP any more.
So You need highly specialised and skilled people that create and maintain a fork of Mozilla and K-Meleon that supports XP. Not even these people themselves know whether they have time and other resources to make the two browsers available.
Yes for some time but how long?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/25/2017 09:51AM by guenter.
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