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Off-topic of the off-topic:
There is where rich languages like Spanish wins, by far, over any condensed language (same word for multiple meanings). And there is where translators have the bigger problems.
Unless economizing words in phrases to make them shorter (sadly, lately this is happening a lot with new generations (imperative and infinitive verbs
)), or intentionally harder to understand, we don't need to watch out for the context to understand what is being said and whom.
Sorry, I had to say it, since you reroute the conversation to this point. Some may not agree with me. I know.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2018 10:27PM by JohnHell.
Actually, "thou" and "ye" were normal speech at the writer's time. The KJV was compiled in 1611 and new editions released in 1629, 1638, 1762 and 1769.
Buuut, "may". "May" is all about permissions, not instructions. Except, in the negative "You may not ..." ("You don't have my permission" = "You must not ..."). And, "may" overlaps (in this era) with "might": "I may do it" = "I'm (seriously) considering it" ("I have given myself permission") as against "I might do it" = "There is a possibility I will do it." Of course, this "might" is the original past participle of "may" though we don't use it as such now, and has very little to do with "might and power".
Small boy to Mum: "Can I ride my bike please?"
Mum: "You can, but you may not." (Ability versus permission.)
@JohnHell - Why be sorry? Yes, we probably should move this to Off-Topic, but I think maybe many people are learning or appreciating how difficult machine translation really is.
____________________
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic. [Florence Ambrose, "Freefall" 01372 January 22, 2007 http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff1400/fv01372.htm]
Sigh.... two weeks ago Google has changed their code again - and thrown out the good old classic view which still operated without needing javascript
At least it affects only Selected-Text translation in those 2 textboxes. Before, without JS and in old browsers that was working fine when using the macro, which is sending the text encoded in the URL. It just wasn't possible without JS to manually edit the input box.
Now that classic view is gone completely, and the 'normal' view for selected-text translation insists on javascript, and additionally on younger browsers, like at least KG74. Grmpf.
At least full-page translations still work fully, still without JS and in really old browsers (like KM1.6).
And DEEPL has added 2 more languages:
Russian and portuguese
https://www.deepl.com/translator
PS: What's that guy talking about?? KM75.1...? so bad??
(he obviously means not just web translation, but his own texts too)
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2018 08:07AM by siria.
K-Meleon development related discussions.
Re: Replace Google Translate / HELPER macro for YANDEX+BING
Posted by:
JohnHell
Date: November 04, 2018 04:52PM
Off-topic of the off-topic:
There is where rich languages like Spanish wins, by far, over any condensed language (same word for multiple meanings). And there is where translators have the bigger problems.
Unless economizing words in phrases to make them shorter (sadly, lately this is happening a lot with new generations (imperative and infinitive verbs
)), or intentionally harder to understand, we don't need to watch out for the context to understand what is being said and whom.
Sorry, I had to say it, since you reroute the conversation to this point. Some may not agree with me. I know.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2018 10:27PM by JohnHell.
Off Topic about translation blues
Posted by:
gordon451
Date: November 05, 2018 07:49AM
Quote
siria
And until today I thought thou/ye was normal speech at the writer's time, never dawned on me that it could also just be a workaround
And now an english trap again: someone "may"... = ?? You must...? You can...?
Have read that's a quite difficult nuance to figure out, incl. considering who speaks, especially when it's written in a law...
Actually, "thou" and "ye" were normal speech at the writer's time. The KJV was compiled in 1611 and new editions released in 1629, 1638, 1762 and 1769.
Buuut, "may". "May" is all about permissions, not instructions. Except, in the negative "You may not ..." ("You don't have my permission" = "You must not ..."). And, "may" overlaps (in this era) with "might": "I may do it" = "I'm (seriously) considering it" ("I have given myself permission") as against "I might do it" = "There is a possibility I will do it." Of course, this "might" is the original past participle of "may" though we don't use it as such now, and has very little to do with "might and power".
Small boy to Mum: "Can I ride my bike please?"
Mum: "You can, but you may not." (Ability versus permission.)
@JohnHell - Why be sorry? Yes, we probably should move this to Off-Topic, but I think maybe many people are learning or appreciating how difficult machine translation really is.
____________________
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic. [Florence Ambrose, "Freefall" 01372 January 22, 2007 http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff1400/fv01372.htm]
Re: Google TRANSLATE + Yandex + Bing + Deepl
Posted by:
siria
Date: December 11, 2018 05:57AM
Sigh.... two weeks ago Google has changed their code again - and thrown out the good old classic view which still operated without needing javascript
At least it affects only Selected-Text translation in those 2 textboxes. Before, without JS and in old browsers that was working fine when using the macro, which is sending the text encoded in the URL. It just wasn't possible without JS to manually edit the input box.
Now that classic view is gone completely, and the 'normal' view for selected-text translation insists on javascript, and additionally on younger browsers, like at least KG74. Grmpf.
At least full-page translations still work fully, still without JS and in really old browsers (like KM1.6).
And DEEPL has added 2 more languages:
Russian and portuguese
https://www.deepl.com/translator
PS: What's that guy talking about?? KM75.1...? so bad??
(he obviously means not just web translation, but his own texts too)
Quote
https://mobile.twitter.com/deinenemesis/status/1071004776341667840
Win XP problems - Palemoon can't deal with Twitter any more mobile.twitter is missing features - K-Meleon can't deal with deepl and google translator any more. Both have problems with Youtube. Firefox is freezing quickly. I will have to tweet either in German or in bad English.
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2018 08:07AM by siria.
English