comming soon in englisch and german
based on wechselbalg
not a big thing

Do you mean the testbuild made by Ulf or another build??

Because the testbuild made by Ulf is completely different (not as fast, menues more complex, no Googlebar, no Mimetypes-editor, no Aggreg8) and we have nothing planned before next winter.....
So you would not understand me wrong, the new official is a good and stable build, but you can not compare it with Wechselbalg I think...

Jan.

I mean wechselbalg

Nothing planned so I do not know what you mean...
Or are you making something?
And what is the difference then with the 'official' unofficial Wechselbalg?

Jan.

It sounds like an unofficial unofficial "Wechselbalg".

How about spending the time to get the new official version ready? It doesn't make any sense to me to release unofficial releases one after another when there are only few people working on an official one that *do* (much more) need help in testing and stuff... ;-/

*do* (much more) need help should have been "*do* need (much more) help", of course. :-)

lieber ra,
solange der offizielle nicht auch als staitk geplant wird?
= er zu langsam für die meisten hier!

verbesserte sprachunterstützung scheint auch nicht geplant!
= also ein hobby für "en und en-us" mit alten pc?

& beim offiziellen k-m arbeitet wer mit, der mehrere hier angepault hat!
unter anderem fand ich, dass er sich gegenüber Sebastian blöde angestellt hat.
gleichzeitig war keiner der herren des offiziellen bereit - mit rat oder tat viel zu helfen -


ich finde also deine aufforderung suboptimal -
(vermute aber - dass es dir unbekannt war oder ist).
mfG

when is the release planned to? Is it based on 1.8a4?

i'm *really* looking forward to it.

/michael

Okay, I had not planned to give a more detailed reaction but here we go.

Wechselbalg based on Moz1.8a2 has taken a lot of our time. Dorian was willing to make a static build and we together made the menues, macros and toolbar-files. That with the new boxed-classic skin made the unofficial as it is now.

That said, we do not have real plans to make a new build till next winter. And at that time I really hope Dorian again will help us with making a static build because, do not ask me why, when I asked Ulf, he didn't even give a reaction.
At that time the new Moz1.8 is probably out and will give us the same speed or may be even a little more then the unofficial now; 20-25 percent faster then the official we have now (0.8.3), and the same or even a little more compared to the new official (0.9).

The new unofficial will have:
Menues based on the new official, but then completed with:
- mimetypes editor
- almost sure aggreg8
- googlebar
- an optimized version of the boxed-classic theme (in fact I am already using it with Ulf's testbuild)
- etc... etc....

And about what Guenter said, I am not happy about it but he is right.
The only reason that I try to do some testwork, again spent a complete day to edit chrome by hand, gave some reactions on the developerslist etc... is because I hope K-Meleon will get a little more enthousiastic users. And may be..... may be we will get some new developers extra then what will make the crew a little more professional.
That said, I also am very happy that we have those developers and that they want to spend their time to make a new build. The only point I really do not understand is that we ask for some benefits and we get no reaction or a negative reaction every time we ask....

Why not a official static build.....

Why not support for multi-language....

Why not a build what is a little more straight-forward and complete for new users....

Why not calling layers tabs (AND I KNOW THAT THEY ARE NOT THE SAME!!!!)...

Why not a little more support for FF plugins based on chrome....

etc... etc... etc....

(And therefor we make our unofficials ;-))

Jan

I think you got me wrong, at least a bit. There won't be anything common you can base an unoffical build on if no one's working on new releases. IMO unofficial *builds* should only be for testing to incorporate fixes and additions to official *releases*, just like MonkeeSage did it - he filed bugs, sent in patches and so on.

The more people are working on K-Meleon the better, as long as the main effort is going into bringing the project forward, together with the BTS, CVS, the forum, the mailing list, documentation and most important: a constant flow of new builds.

And even if you don't like a release based on 1.7.x for obvious reasons it's still a step in the right direction. It's still half a year or more for 1.8 to be released.

Hi Ra,

May be you are right, but then I don't understand why I still did not get an answer from Ulf about a static build. May be he has a good reason, but till now, I don't know.
And the same for the other points, mentioned more then once on the forums.
I know we can not expect everything in one time, but after half a year (your words ;-)))) I really hoped we could have added some of them to the next build.

About 1.7 you ARE right. I don't like it, but we can use it for an unofficial based on a 1.8 testrelease. And 1.7 is a good and stable Mozilla-release so probably for the people not freeking on speed and new features (mimetypes-editor etc..) good enough.

Jan.

May be you are right, but then I don't understand why I still did not get an answer from Ulf about a static build. May be he has a good reason, but till now, I don't know.

Well, I sent him (and others) a detailed report on how to reproduce the browsers GDI objects leaking (it's not there in K-M v4, but all builds > 0.4!) but didn't get any response, too.

About 1.7 you ARE right. I don't like it, but we can use it for an unofficial based on a 1.8 testrelease. And 1.7 is a good and stable Mozilla-release so probably for the people not freeking on speed and new features (mimetypes-editor etc..) good enough.

Yeah, I think you got me. If a release is out, the CVS updated and so on you can still easily take that release and make a static build out of it or update it's back-end - if necessary - and everyone is getting several benefits at once. (BTW: A new official release will probably attract several new users, too.)

But only taking 0.8.2s source, updating menus, skin and back-end won't bring as really forward in the long run as there will still be most old bugs around and no new (native) features added, etc.

i much like Sebastians, Jans & Dorian work generally.

without more speed, improved language support (making translations eassier),
easy use of FF extensions we will not get anywhere because our bases will stay
too small -

much of the official effort goes the wrong way -
i only see featureism not develoment of essentials.
is the lack of feedback and work in forum a sign of autocratic aloofness, perhaaps?
& the officials have decided to waste time on a paralel design to ours that
was ready and had a good chrome - so i am not sure whether anyone can be asked to do a thing ( and still people like Jan did help ) .
regards

hier it is:

english version : http://www.labanet.de/downloads.php?page=1

german version : http://www.labanet.de/downloads.php?page=2

Sebastian,


http://www.labanet.de/downloads.php?page=1

About this new unofficial release. What is it based on? Ulf's beta test for 1.7.3 code? Or is it an update of 0.8.2+?

Tks,

N

He took the Wechselbalg static build based on Moz1.8a2 and made another skin around it. If I understand it right ofcourse.....

Jan

Do we still need dll installer on wechselbalg for thsi build ?

I mean the Visual studio dll files ?

I still run Win98SE :<

SKA

Jan,

JAN> He took the Wechselbalg static build based on Moz1.8a2 and made another skin around it. If I understand it right ofcourse.....


Thanks, I'll play with it asap.

N

I take it that K-Meleon is officially dead?.

I take it that K-Meleon is officially dead?.

No quite contrar. The new version is in the pipeline, stay tuned for a public beta sometime soon.

So a new unofficial release based on Wechselbalg heh? Oh well it's like planting a seed: before you know it you end up with branches growing everywhere. ;-)

Oh and good luck with it Sebastian.

Sebastian,

I've got to say it. I've used Wechselbalg and Wechselbalg Plus (as I've dubbed your effort) since they came out. As much as I like them, they present a couple of major issues for me in WIN98se. The menu keys DO NOT work (yes I've tried to incorporate old LAYERS.DLL from 0.8.2, but it doesn't work). I can't type <alt> <H> to get help or any other of the various keys that should work. Second, Romanito's PRIVACY.DLL doesn't work. No emptying cache, history or address bar history (forgetting cookies or passwords which I don't care about). And you can't click on the JAVA button (in some of the themes like Early Blue) and turn it on and off, although the javascript button does work just fine.

Also, from time to time, both Wechselbalg versions seem to choke on certain sites and crash with a kernal error. Didn't see that problem in 0.8.2 or Ulf's 1.7xx early test build.

If ULF is reading this post (which I hear is problematic), Romanito's PRIVACY.DLL is critical to the success of K-Meleon in my opinion. CRITICAL. Turning Java and Javascript on/off is also very nice and should be there. Having an email button is also a very nice feature and it should be there in all the themes without any question. If it's not there, those themes should be PULLED from the Wiki. I'm sorry, but there are certain basic things that should be uniform across all themes and that is one that just has to be there imo.

I've held my voice on all this until now, but I gotta say, some of these problems are not small potatoes. If the Wechselbalg line is to go forward, it has to fix the bugs. As for the boxed theme, I'm no big fan. I like a lot of the other themes that have shown up and keep a couple of them around, although as you all know, I am a fanatical fan of Early Blue.

Tks for listening,

N

Hi Guys,
yep I am having trouble too. layers dont work properly for me you can only close the active one clicking on any other still closes the active one. changing the layers dll locked up KM . print preview doesnt work it crashes KM . and sometimes the build stutters on loading some sites so for the time being I have gone back to 0.8.2 Official

PJ

ndebord

If ULF is reading this post (which I hear is problematic), Romanito's PRIVACY.DLL is critical to the success of K-Meleon in my opinion. CRITICAL. Turning Java and Javascript on/off is also very nice and should be there. Having an email button is also a very nice feature and it should be there in all the themes without any question. If it's not there, those themes should be PULLED from the Wiki. I'm sorry, but there are certain basic things that should be uniform across all themes and that is one that just has to be there imo.

Regarding the Privacy.dll plugin, in the beginning it was being discussed and there was talk of including it with the next official release, and Andrew sent an email to him asking for his permission to include it, however not much more has been said about it so you can probably assume that he didn't get a response from Romanito. Bottom line is you really cannot go including somebody else's work in a release without their Ok in the first place.

As for the themes thing that you mention there, well you do know where I stand on the issue, and whenever a request comes up, I always do my best to meet those requests. At the moment I have collated a "uniform" list of buttons which should be included with the themes (from now on), and you can be reassured that any of my themes will be updated accordingly. As for the rest of them, well it's up to the respective theme authors to take care of their own work.

I've held my voice on all this until now, but I gotta say, some of these problems are not small potatoes. If the Wechselbalg line is to go forward, it has to fix the bugs...

Well to be fair on them it is "unofficial", which usually means buyer beware. Maybe if they had've been a little more public with the beta testing (did they do any beta testing?), and subsequently there wouldn't be as many problems now.

One thing the next official release will be fairly bug free as it is indeed being tested out before release.

Hi Al,

Can you give us that list and the order of the icons you are using now?

Thanks,
Jan.

Al,

Yes, I am not being fair about what is a magnificent effort to produce an unofficial version of KM just when it was needed most. I really do appreciate it, but still, there are certain issues with it that are problematic. Not having hotkey access to the main menu items is a point in case.

As for Romanito's PRIVACY.DLL, if ULF doesn't find a way to include support for it, KM has taken a giant step backwards. The ability to clear cache, history, address bar, cookies and passwords, is routine now in FF and Mozilla with the use of extensions. Without that kind of user control, KM becomes more of a marginal player imo.

As for the themes, my thanks to you and everyone who has implemented a complete range of buttons to handle all those possible variations that people (like me, of course!) want! I just love Early Blue (I know people are getting "blue" in the face when they hear me go on and on about that particular theme) but there are other themes I like too, like Nautoplis (sp) and Qute and I even have a vestigial feel for the original theme, based on IE.

Being able to turn JavaScript and Java on and off, (flash would be nice too) from a toolbar button is also nice, but we'll see. I generally surf with just Javascript turned on, so most of the time I don't care about Java, but there are sites where it would nice to be able to just click on a button and get it working instead of going into Edit/Preferences, etc..

Anyhow, I'm very happy with KM. All the work that so many have put into it over the last few years is impressive and appreciated. I'm currently running Ulf's early 1.7xx test build to get back the functionality that wasn't there in the unofficial Wechselbalg versions. Can't go all the way back to 0.8.2 though as I've been spoiled by the advances in the newer versions!

:-)

N

Regarding the Privacy.dll plugin, in the beginning it was being discussed and there was talk of including it with the next official release, and Andrew sent an email to him asking for his permission to include it, however not much more has been said about it so you can probably assume that he didn't get a response from Romanito. Bottom line is you really cannot go including somebody else's work in a release without their Ok in the first place.

Romain Vallet responded to an email I sent him awhile ago and said he has absolutely no time to continue work on his plugins, but he gave his OK for anyone to continue work on them and also has no problems with it being included in the release. All who have been using the test builds can see that it is integrated and will be a part of 0.9.


Being able to turn JavaScript and Java on and off, (flash would be nice too) from a toolbar button is also nice... there are sites where it would nice to be able to just click on a button and get it working instead of going into Edit/Preferences, etc..

Available from both the main menu & privacy bar in the next release.

jsnj

Romain Vallet responded to an email I sent him awhile ago and said he has absolutely no time to continue work on his plugins, but he gave his OK for anyone to continue work on them and also has no problems with it being included in the release. All who have been using the test builds can see that it is integrated and will be a part of 0.9.

The last test build I used didn't have it, however that was a while ago and since then I haven't had enough time to get around to downloading any newer test versions. I also was under the assumption based on what I have read on the dev's mailing list that Romanito hadn't responded to Andrew (I can recall Ulf asking hime about it without a response).

I will however have some time coming up and hopefully by then the public beta will be available.

ndebord

Can you give us that list and the order of the icons you are using now?

Well the complete list would probably be similar to what you're seeing in the Early Blue theme, which includes icons for just about every function you *could* mention, in fact it is the most complete theme I have done. The other themes will need some work, however I am holding off until the final release comes out and then they will all be brought up to scratch (compatibility) with it if needed. The list I have I collated based upon that other discussion thread which Jan (Fast Sjonny) started a while ago...
http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?f=2&i=3265&t=3265

It's about the only decent discussion (if you could call it that) that we have had on the subject so far.

jsnj (unless he has changed things) has decided that for now with the new official release that the "Privacy" style buttons will be text based similar to Mozilla's PrefBar, which will save some theme authors a bit of work having to adjust themes and skins with extra icons, for the time being at least.

I also was under the assumption based on what I have read on the dev's mailing list that Romanito hadn't responded to Andrew (I can recall Ulf asking hime about it without a response).

Andrew contacted me about it. He knows, and it's all cleared.


jsnj (unless he has changed things) has decided that for now with the new official release that the "Privacy" style buttons will be text based similar to Mozilla's PrefBar, which will save some theme authors a bit of work having to adjust themes and skins with extra icons, for the time being at least.

Actually, I like Jan's version of it in his boxed classic where small icons are next to small text. A matching checkmark when enabled and X when blocked may be simple enough to implement for most themes. What do you think?

You can use it if you want ;-))

I just uploaded the last version: http://hch.uwnet.nl/k-meleon/tmp/boxed_classic.exe

Jan.