Thanks, ndebord! Your points are well taken. Granted, my points could be raised for just moving KM to Gecko 1.9.0 that does not use SQLite, but I agree that any changes to KM should be done in their good time.

And also to note, there are at least three other Gecko 3.x-non-XUL-based browsers which are using the latest Gecko and update in a timely manner: Orca and Lunascape which are using Gecko 3.5.x and Flock, which although is using Gecko 3.0.x will probably be at 3.5.x soon.

Check the latest K-MeleonCCF ME version (0.096.4)

Instead of updating K-Meleon core to include Sqlite of Gecko 1.9x, this new version of K-MeleonCCF ME integrates Lastpass service which can save and load user's login information together with detailed form filling functions. In this way, K-MeleonCCF ME can keep itself as lightweight as possible while keeping itself fully fuctional...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/06/2009 08:16PM by Hao Jiang.

Quote
Hao Jiang
Check the latest K-MeleonCCF ME version (0.096.4)

Instead of updating K-Meleon core to include Sqlite of Gecko 1.9x, this new version of K-MeleonCCF ME integrates Lastpass service which can save and load user's login information together with detailed form filling functions. In this way, K-MeleonCCF ME can keep itself as lightweight as possible while keeping itself fully fuctional...

Hao,

I saw that post about LastPass... this service is an online storage system, no?

N



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2009 04:19AM by ndebord.

As far as I can seee LastPass is an online password manager and form filler.
FAQ

Might come in handy for many users, excepting some old fashioned ones like me.

Quote
Yogi
As far as I can seee LastPass is an online password manager and form filler.
FAQ

Might come in handy for many users, excepting some old fashioned ones like me.

Yogi,

Agree completely. Don't want an online site for my personal passwords. Am perfectly happy with the current (albeit problematic) password manager. Am NOT particularly pleased with the new SQLite setup in Gecko 1.9.xxx

Have you used KeyPass or similar?

Tks.

N

Quote
ndebord
Have you used KeyPass or similar?

No I didn't and probably never will.
I prefer to carry my passwords in my head even if a password manager might be a more comfortable solution.
Just in case I might forget a password, I have safely stored them separately on my HD.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2009 05:23PM by Yogi.

For safety issues with lastpass, check here:

https://lastpass.com/safety.php

All encryption/decryption occurs on your computer, not on our servers. This means that it does not travel over the Internet and it never touches our servers.

Quote
Hao Jiang
For safety issues with lastpass, check here:

https://lastpass.com/safety.php

All encryption/decryption occurs on your computer, not on our servers. This means that it does not travel over the Internet and it never touches our servers.

Hao,

So the way I figure it, only you and the NSA can decrypt your passwords (sly grin)

Thanks!

N

Just a sidenote regarding SQLite:

The constant harddisk access which i mentioned in the following post:

http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?1,88326,95744#msg-95744

...is related to SQLite behaviour. I also described this behaviour in detail on mozillazine, and it was considered "not necessarily a bug":

http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?p=6238095#p6238095
http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?p=6243495#p6243495

In short, before the switch to sqlite, firefox would only update its data (bookmarks, history) in long intervals, when adding data or on app close. With the transition to SQLite, a different policy more typical to a database was applied: Always write to the disk whenever even a minor change to user-data happens. And when we're already doing that, who cares about checking if there even IS new data - lets just flush the DB-Journal in hardcoded intervals, rather than when its necessary.

The problem with that - besides of wasting ressources - is that this way the harddrive will never enter powersaving mode.

Personally, i think that only important user data (bookmarks, passwords) should be instantly written to disk when modified. For nearly everyone, it really doesn't matter much, that if the app crashes, some recent history or usage-stats are lost. What they'd want at most, is recovery of open tabs.

Quote
Yogi

Quote
ndebord
Have you used KeyPass or similar?

No I didn't and probably never will.
I prefer to carry my passwords in my head even if a password manager might be a more comfortable solution.
Just in case I might forget a password, I have safely stored them separately on my HD.

Yogi,

I too keep a separate list of passwords, suitably encrypted, on my hard drive. But I can't remember all my passwords, so I use Password Manager for now.

N

I know there is an extension for Firefox to open sqlite bases. I have tried to use it with K-Meleon 1.x but I haven't been able to make it work, but perhaps it will be possible with new 1.9 chrome ?

A+

---

Mozilla/5.0 (x11; U; Linux x86_64; fr-FR; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Ubuntu/12.04 K-Meleon/76.0

---

Web: http://jujuland.pagesperso-orange.fr/
Mail : alain [dot] aupeix [at] wanadoo [dot] fr

---

Ubuntu 12.04 - Gramps 3.4.9 - Harbour 3.2.0 - Hwgui 2.20-3 - K-Meleon 76.0 rc

---

1- lyx stresses an extremely important issue here with sqlite, i was never really aware off since i hardly use unoffical 1.9 based kms or forefox3+ and if, never for more than 10-15 mins(mostly testing). when i use kmeleon for a long time and then decide to run a program; i can hear the harddisk spinning(coming out of power saving mode) and i think wow, that's really good..i've been surfing for like 45 mins and all that time my hds were sleeping.. now that lyx has mentioned it, i tested for prolonged intervals using ff and it's true it never gives the hd a chance to sleep.. not only that, monitoring the hd led on the case..it blinks every couple of seconds..it's almost like rendering a video or animation and completely unacceptable for a browser.

2- the nightmare of ssl errorpages. this might not be an issue to most but if you browse university research pages..many old and many on https sites and almost all with outdated certificates.. in kmeleon(1.8) you simply click a button and you're in in gecko 1.9, you have to go through 4 confusing and unnecessary steps to get in and there's no accept temporarily for this session and eventually you just have to accept permanently (not a secure-wise decision.. even if you know that website is safe)

3- although the trade off between jscript speed and memory/cpu usage(especially memory) is within the acceptable range for faster newer computers..old systems will really suffer- anything less than 1gb of ram will start choking with gecko 1.9


before jumping on the 1.9+ wagon, i think the devs must focus on these main 3 issues.. the usage of sqlite is not healthy and will ultimately decrease the life-span of the harddisks.. another minor and less important side-effect is the loss of all database extensions. kmeleon(i.e dorian & kko) need to find a way to keep using the current database or some other database which can be compliant with gecko 1.9 and at the same time enables hd poweroff when needed..there's no point for a browser to constantly update its databases.

using the ssl error pages is not acceptable by any standards...when it was first implemented, many ff users moved away..many objected and only the 'fanboys' thought it was the way of the future.. eventually triggering many addons to completely disable them, one of them was by the brain-master of ssl pages himself.. that's even a worse decision..live with obnoxious ssl pages or just let everything pass through? i see, mozilla has softened them up a bit in 3.5, perhaps reducing a step but that's not good enough for kmeleon.. again, there should be a way to keep using the simple ssl error dialogs that are already within kmeleon.exe.


memory management/cpu usage has never been one of firefox strong points.. so they don't really have much to worry about..it's was already a bloated product since 1.5.. further increasing the usage a little more will not send the fanboys packing; however they are starting to realise their mistakes in how many users(non-fanboys) are starting to look else where, believe it or not, regardless of mozilla bollocks download numbers..their actual users are diminishing... going back to ie, or opting for opera, chrome or ofcourse kmeleon (within the windows system).. they are now experimenting with something called electrolysis for better memory managment through assigning each tab it's own process. this is a very crucial dev step for firefox, already suffering from xul handicaps.. i think kmeleon has to investigate a similar approach to keep memory handling acceptable and the browser workable for old computers.

uninformed users might get too excited about migrating to 1.9.. and obviously some of them have been waiting for some time for this move. but there are important pros vs even more important cons in a 1.9 update..and right now, the cons clearly outweigh the pros. kmeleon has a reputation to preserve..a user friendly and a resources friendly application with lot of users falling in the outdated computers category.. which will no doubt be left in the cold with a hasty gecko 1.9 update

Disrupted,

Can sqlite files be made into a stub and not really used? (and thereby stopping
hard drive churn? Or can their use be modified so that instead of constant
writes to the hard drive, you do it manually with a toggle or as a setting that
writes when you exit the browser?

Or can sqlite be avoided altogether in Gecko 1.9xxx????

I didn't follow the FireFox developers' arguments, but think one of their
points was to have a wider integration of history, bookmarks, etc., to improve
search and autofill???

I need to find a good utility to check hard drive churn, any candidates you
like?

Better memory management is a good thing. Not a clue about where FF is going
with that or what that means for KM.

N

What about using a RAMdisk or something like that? Maybe just holding updates until Ramdisk is full or HDD access needed for a read from sqlite? Would have to be careful with this because some users have computers that do not have a lot of extra RAM available.

I don't know if this could be used to check hard drive churn or not.
http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/process_activity_view.html

Supposed to do this "Number of times that the file was opened and closed, number of read/write calls, total number of read/write bytes, the dll that made the last open-file call".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2009 11:50PM by JamesD.

hao has proven that sqlite can indeed be avoided, that's why i'm hoping dorian can find someway to keep using our current database..it will probably be like precision surgery. i don't really know about hd monitors..never used them, panzer probably knows good ones.

i didn't read enough into electrolysis but i don't think it will affect k-meleon.. i mean it ill only be applicable on firefox(xul tabs) and not kmeleon api tabs..it's kinda around the concept of km 1.1.x layers approach.. remember with 1.1.x, layer was actually an integrated window so by nature it ran in its own process..wasn't a true tab but did have its advantages

JamesD,

Thanks that utility looks like the real thing. Am using it with FF 3.5.3 right now to check (although I may have to redo FF with the official version as I'm using the Portable Firefox with Old Location Bar and as many tweaks to replicate FF2 behavior as possible)... not a good test of SQLite, so a cherry vanilla version needs to be loaded up.

Thanks.

N

Quote
disrupted
hao has proven that sqlite can indeed be avoided, that's why i'm hoping dorian can find someway to keep using our current database..it will probably be like precision surgery. i don't really know about hd monitors..never used them, panzer probably knows good ones.

i didn't read enough into electrolysis but i don't think it will affect k-meleon.. i mean it ill only be applicable on firefox(xul tabs) and not kmeleon api tabs..it's kinda around the concept of km 1.1.x layers approach.. remember with 1.1.x, layer was actually an integrated window so by nature it ran in its own process..wasn't a true tab but did have its advantages

disrupted,

Well, time will tell if sqlite is in KM's future or not and if it is, whether or not it can be massaged properly. Properly to my mind means toggle switchs or something similar to reduce or eliminate hard drive churn.

I would prefer to stay with plain text file stuff as one FF fan said, using a dbase for passwords is overkill and how much history do you need?

N



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2009 12:12AM by ndebord.

Hello everybody:

I´m a k-meleon user and i´m really surprised with its speed.

i´m not a programmer, so i dont know how to make a k-meleon with gecko 1.9.1 but i´m really waiting for it.

Can someone tell me if k-meleon developer staff is working about this version
(1.6 ¿?) because i`´m really interested about a package like 1.53 that you can download directly and install at your pc (the link that u give us at this page is not useful for me because i don´t know what is it for ))

THANKS IN ADVANCE.... continue with your marvellous work
(some time ago i found ff and i thought it was the best browser.... BUT... 3 years ago I found k-meleon and its my default browser ... because it is really fantastic to work)

pp4mnk

Quote
pp4mnk
Hello everybody:

I´m a k-meleon user and i´m really surprised with its speed.

i´m not a programmer, so i dont know how to make a k-meleon with gecko 1.9.1 but i´m really waiting for it.

Can someone tell me if k-meleon developer staff is working about this version
(1.6 ¿?) because i`´m really interested about a package like 1.53 that you can download directly and install at your pc (the link that u give us at this page is not useful for me because i don´t know what is it for ))

THANKS IN ADVANCE.... continue with your marvellous work
(some time ago i found ff and i thought it was the best browser.... BUT... 3 years ago I found k-meleon and its my default browser ... because it is really fantastic to work)

pp4mnk

pp4mnk,

It will take some time to modify K-Meleon to accomodate the major changes that FireFox made to the Gecko engine to add in the SQLite dBase. As K-Meleon does not use XUL (software emulation overhead), but script languages, this is one of those major forks in the Gecko engine that require careful coding to get it right.

If you're willing to try out stuff, then look to Hao and Fred for their prototypes using Gecko 1.9 (instead of 1.8 as is used in KM 1.5.3) for Windows and Linux.

Personally I have been less than thrilled with FireFox's changeover to SQLite, but that is another topic for another day.

N

Please be distributed when the source code of K-Meleon 1.6?

Quote
Vinny
Please be distributed when the source code of K-Meleon 1.6?

check out this page, Vinny:
http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/wiki/kmeleon16

there are some recent K-meleon 1.6a downloads available there.

Great! I'm looking forward to an even faster K-M - with all the other browser getting faster, it's good to see that K-M is not left behind.

Quote
Vinny
Please be distributed when the source code of K-Meleon 1.6?

According to a mail from Dorian Source for 1.6 is in CVS mostly.

Quote
ndebord

Quote
Yogi

Quote
ndebord
Have you used KeyPass or similar?

No I didn't and probably never will.
I prefer to carry my passwords in my head even if a password manager might be a more comfortable solution.
Just in case I might forget a password, I have safely stored them separately on my HD.

Yogi,

I too keep a separate list of passwords, suitably encrypted, on my hard drive. But I can't remember all my passwords, so I use Password Manager for now.

Maybe I am just paranoid but I keep all of my passwords encryted on CD.

Charlie

~~If it ain't broke, why screw it up?~~

Is there a known bug with the bookmarks. Everytime I close Kmeleon and reopen it, my folders all say (null). If I fix it, when I close and reopen, same thing.

Quote
gman2083
Is there a known bug with the bookmarks. Everytime I close Kmeleon and reopen it, my folders all say (null). If I fix it, when I close and reopen, same thing.

AFAIK No.

But it is a common/typical fault for a Windows that did not grant writing privileges for the Profiles folder (Reason e.g. if the user on install de-selected Multi User support / No Multi User is a setting for Win98 or to create portable K-Meleons / else a windows problem e.g. with Vista).

Changed settings etc. do not stick either...

You usually fix it by manually granting writing privileges for the Profiles folder.

Those VISTA handcuffs with everything you do so get on my nerves! But guess the simplest solution would be if someone simply creates an alternative folder for new programs on c:/, for example name it 'proggies', and then there are no rights problems any more - is that right...? At least it seems to work for me, although there are still enough handcuffs left, like impossible to delete files of certain types or whatever.

I'm having the bookmark folder name issue too, and I'm on WinXP.
Addding, removing, or visiting a bookmark causes the issue(with updated LAST_VISIT entry).
Tested with fresh new profile but same result.
The only solution I've found was to replace bookmarks.dll with the one came with KM154.