the biggest reason why I thought I'll never bother with Netscape was that annoying scroll bar in NC6. is it actually part of 'Gecko', or is it removable?
I'd love to see a gecko browser that I can scroll in the way I'd expect to be able to on any Win32 program.

I think you're stuck with the Mozilla scrollbars unless someone add the code for gecko to support native scrollbars as an option.

Suggestion: ship kmeleon with the scrollbars that are used as Mozilla's classic theme rather than the scrollbars from the modern theme. The classic scrollbars look a lot like the native scrollbars and users will appreciate that.

noted

I'd like to see a browser that uses standard Windows scrollbars - this because I use 'WindowBlinds'- and WindowBlinds skins these (with whatever skin you're using)

(note: since not even IE uses standard scrollbars (it just fakes them), WindowBlinds can't currently skin IE - so if you implemented standard scrollbars in K-Meleon, then you would attract all the WindowBlinds users)

that's a good point. also, native toolbars would be drawn directly by the GDI and thus would be much faster than rendered by Gecko ...

IE doesn't use standard GDI scrollbars either. I use windowBlinds (registered) and all scrollbars get 'skinned', but those in IE won't. If you use spy++ you can see that these scrollbars are an integral part of the window they are in, whereas native scrollbars are actually separate windows.

The scrollbars are Javascript + XUL + CSS just like the rest of the GUI
in original Mozilla and they are themable through that mechanism.
That is a shame though, because that entire framework is REALLY bulky and slow and
I guess also the reason why this browser came into being.
Older versions of Mozilla used native scrollbars though, so I guess that the current ones could be made native if tweaked a little.

sorry I forgot to mention the biggest reason why the 'fake' scroll bars really annoy me. it's that I'm using a logitec mouse and their mouse driver that has this extention to the middle botton called 'universal scroll'. basically what it does is that while the middle botton is pressed, the mouse movement will be treated as if you are dragging the closest scroll bar without actually moving the mouse curser over.
Quite difficult to explain in my poor English but it really is so useful that makes you hate all the wheel mouses once you become acustomed to it.
and this brilliant feature is now rendered useless because of the ridilous scroll bar.
+also, the mimic scroll bar in classic theme look silly if you've changed the appearance properties. wrong colour, and width. I really hate the fat scroll bar for its ugliness and make mine 10 pixels wide, since on my machine I don't need them anyway

I hope I'm not the only one in the world so fussy about scroll bars. (or am I?)
Anyways christoph please keep up the good work
you're my only hope after seeing the whole mozzila thing so screwd up.

thanks!

Yes, I agree with NavigatorOverCommunicator completely about the inability to use the Universal Scroll feature in a Logitech mouse. The scrollbars used in Gecko and IE are VERY annoying as opposed to standard scrollbars used in other applications.

hi normalperson (hehe), try disabling 'smooth scroll' from Internet options in IE (4 or 5). it did the job for me.
now let's hope there'll be a work around for the lizard too...

I should point out that I'm using the "Mozbilla" theme (available at mozillazine.org/chromezone), so I never even -noticed- the scrollbars weren't native! They seem to work very fast (much better than under Mozilla itself). I'd recommend installing this chrome if you want the scrollbars (or Mozilla) to look like Windows/IE.