K-Meleon on Goanna :
K-Meleon Web Browser Forum
Shiro Feedback and any other user go to this thread:
http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?12,147514
Thank you.
Would be a good idea to enable 'Menu' at toolbar by default for KMG77? :s
@roytam1
AFAIK Pale Moon of which code KM-Goanna is based on, has the private browsing feature implemented.
Is it possible to port the feature to KM-Goanna?
I assume that meddling with the GUI and the macro language therefore isn't something you'd be keen about (obviously Dorian wasn't either) but at least how about an option in "about:config" for handling it?
Another slighty desperate nag :cool:
Currently struggling with multi-version macros again, and wondering:
What's the current version.ini?
Still 33751048 ?
As in all KM-Goannas since last Dec.?
If yes, please do start counting them up occasionally.
At least after bugfixes and major new capabilities! Without different versions it's an endless struggle and waste for multiversion macros and addons, to figure out if new features work already or not, and if not they are buggy
And I really can't imagine that counting up that little number would take much effort and time)
Dorian did count it up quite frequently too, and with some major steps between:
2.0.0004 KM 74 Beta1
2.0.0006 KM 74 Beta3
2.0.0007 KM 74 Beta4 (PROB: same in forks)
2.0.0012 KM 74 final (+forks) now also ALL KM74-Goanna, GIANT prob
2.1.0007 KM 75.0 final (+forks)
2.2.0003 KM 75.1 alphabetaRC?
2.2.0005 KM 75.1 final (+forks)
2.3.0004 KM 76b3u1, 76b3u2
2.3.0005 KM 76RC1 up1
KM77-Goanna huge probs since here:
2.3.0006 KM 76RC1 up2 (old Gecko 2016), + GOANNA new engine
SAME id: since 20180101: KMG77 useragent site exceptions possible
2.3.0007 KM 76RC2 (old Gecko 2016)
2.3.0008 KM-GOANNA all since 20171215
SAME id: since 20180101: Goanna 3.4.2
SAME id: since 20180409: useragent site exceptions inside omni.ja
SAME id: since 20180414: Lav mmx included
(and sure lots more important stuff and fixes)
Ðе работает в браузере Ñайт Киев водоканала
It's 'easy' to have some kind of "private browsing".
Just create a new profile with these settings:
kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?19,144468
You can add some customization to enhance them too.
* With "some customization" I meant for example to allow only memory cache, disable favicons, to disable address history, to disable all cookies or to restrict any kind of information that can be stored at physical devices with no provided consent by the user. -- so sorry for editing, I know the inconvenience for moderators.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2018 03:37PM by J.G..
IDs should not be an important matter until KMeleon Goanna 77 Beta got released. Unofficial versions don't need different IDs, date release should be enough. Please, consider to make @roytam1 KMG77 an official beta stage.
Anyway, all extra information about what is merged is always welcome.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2018 03:38PM by J.G..
@J.G
I didn't ask neither for some kind of private browsing nor for help.
Besides, my post was addressed to roytam1 in case you didn't notice.
I could say the same to you when you are chasing me around the forum. I only wanted to help, so please relax. Furthermore we are few people here, so internal wars are simply exhausting and improductive. Please have a nice day.
Sorry but that's not helpful at all, to make the correct function of macros as hard as possible. Are you aware through how many hoops a macro has to jump in K-Meleon, just to figure out the KM-version, while all other apps simply have a version number inside? Even for users easily visible? I mean, the correct version, not 76.0.0 And are you aware how much time such futile and completely unnecessary struggles consume, and still can't succeed completely??
We all do wish that KM77 were finally officially declared a "beta"! But roytam1 doesn't see the slightest need to even correct its wrong main version number. Since about 30 releases already. Let alone declare usual development steps like alpha-beta-RC-stable. And KMG is long since in advanced beta-stage, at least that's my impression from the postings here, that's it's definitely not some initial alpha-testing experimental build anymore which is crashing and badly buggy yet. Or do you think so? So to me it looks like he's not planning to ever change that habit of doing only date-versions. Even remember he confirmed that somewhere, just not quite sure anymore where, perhaps was in another forum. But that also means that not only clueless users keep confusing KM76-2016 and KM77-2018, but also macros will be told by this version in all eternity that KM77 were still the main branch of KM76-gecko from 2016, with only the very last little digit counted up - but only once, never anymore since last december.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2018 04:25PM by siria.
I haven't noticed the importance of your point of view. Considering your well explained reasons I think you are completely right and I can't agree more. However, I guess a solution is still possible: to make official one release by @roytam1, and then another official release after three months. For example, KMG-77, next KMG-77.1, KMG-77.2 and so forth. @roytam1 may release as much versions as he can provide and those versions can be 'testing branch'. IMHO KMeleon staff should be able to decide what to offer as 'official' to the users. I hope you understand what I meant, sorry for my poor speech today because I am on headaches and bad health. :s
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2018 05:19PM by J.G..
The status of release or not release is not important. Let me remind you, a person does this primarily as a hobby and it is completely unfair to demand follow-up of canonical development. Browser-there are already de facto. No matter how is called, it will not affect its performance.
...
roytam1 does a great job (and do not forget: that on pure enthusiasm). The work on introduction of new versions of engine and maintenance of their actual much more significant and without this the browser will be difficult to use in modern realities.
Therefore, I recommend taking into account multiplicity of problems and global nature of issue.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2018 04:56PM by hermes.
for KM76G, since there is barely a change of in-tree (i.e. only out-of-tree that is Goanna side changes), I don't see if there is a need to change version numbers.
for KM74G, it is only an experimental test build, as well as reason as above, so I don't see if there is a need to change version numbers as well.
and for REAL "K-Meleon on Goanna 77" that is based on UXP, is just still in early planning stage, no actual coding right now.
Besides, I'm not officially be the developer of K-Meleon, I don't see there is a need to follow traditional developing guidelines here.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2018 07:55AM by roytam1.
Just to clarify the facts again:
my first post above merely begged for little updates of the number inside version.ini.
The number which would be the only reliable way for macros to figure out the KM-version and usable features, but even this version-ID is still identical for completely different KM generations, like KM74-gecko+goanna.
My original post did not request any full follow-up of "canonical development" or "traditional developing guidelines"!
I'm long aware that's hopeless anyway, that subject only came up in replies because other people still hold the wrong belief you were planning to ever release a beta and final version some day, just later, not yet now.
What makes this so hard to understand:
1) If not even the jump between KM-gecko to goanna, which kind of build-differences would make you do even the tiniest update in version numbers?
2) On the other hand, which would be your "harm" if you'd count up the number in version.ini anyway (once in a while, not every week), for the needs of users and easier identification, even if you do "not need" it for your own purposes?
Now that is interesting news. There's actually a planning stage for KM78 too? Didn't sound like that had any realistic chance in the past
And it will be wrongly labelled too, KM77 instead of true KM78, sigh
@siria
Pale Moon 27 reached EOL. AFAIK, no more official fixes or support of any kind.
It had the code-base K-Meleon 76 (or number it as you wish) on Goanna was relying on.
Pale Moon 28 is UXP based.
Version history for Pale Moon
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2018 12:56PM by Yogi.
that's why I moved repo to my github and pushed many upstream fixes for PM27.
Hi roytam1 -
I just downloaded Build 20180825, unzipped with PeaZip 6.6.0 (in Admin) and moved that into Program Files (x86) in a new folder so as not to interfere with the old KM76. I have Win7 HPx64 SP1.
I created a shortcut in C:\Users\All Users\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs, and pinned that to the taskbar in Admin and my LUA.
So far, this is what I would normally do for all non-installer programs.
Problem is, KM-Goanna won't work. I have registered it with Voodooshield and created an Outbound Allow in Windows Firewall, but KM-Goanna fails silently. At one stage it was visible in Task Manager, but Go to Process showed only Explorer.exe.
I know that at some stage I will need a profile in %appdata%, but I am expecting that KM will do that for me--this is not intended to be a portable install. Currently I'm working in Admin: if it won't work in Admin it has no chance in a LUA.
What have I missed? It did occur to me that perhaps the system might be getting confused by seeing k-meleon.exe in a strange path, but then I never suspected even M$ Windoze would be so insecure. I'm pretty sure that's not the reason for failure.
PS:
____________________
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic. [Florence Ambrose, "Freefall" 01372 January 22, 2007 http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff1400/fv01372.htm]
Any missing 'Microsoft Visual C++ x64 redistributable runtime'?
Here working fine W10 64bit, no problem detected since origin.
:s
@gordon451
What you missed is obvious, but before checking if that fixes your prob (99%), would like to know something else:
when you right-click on kmeleon.exe and "run as admin", does that help anything?
In case it helps, can you store new bookmarks or cookies etc? Do changes stick in Edit>Config>Toolbars?
In case it does not help, what if you first start the file explorer by right-cick and run-as-admin, and then the same with kmeleon.exe?
(sorry for those silly questions, but have almost zero experience with such systems and would like to know for other future users)
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2018 01:14AM by siria.
@J.G. - Thanks for replying.
Actually I am/was missing 2017, just have to install that later. But see below...
@siria - And thank you too
It's always the way: what you need to find is almost certainly in "a sensible place"
However, (I'm working in Admin here) yes "Run as Admin" worked. (I refuse to accept any responsibility for M$ peculiarities.) Of course, being not quite as well thought as W2K, the Taskbar QuickLaunch does not provide for "Run as Admin", and in any case we now need to get away from that kludgy work-around.
I have not yet tried bookmarks, nor any browsing. But GUI config does stick, an easy change to Klassic and alter the toolbars to my taste.
Windows 7 is certainly far more secure than all previous editions, and definitely a huge improvement on XP/Vista: it is nearly as good as W2K. Admin is not actually Admin, it is very close to W2K Power User. If in a Local User Account, it is not good to Run as Adminstrator, since that puts you into the Admin User Account environment, so changes you make will not be relected in your LUA when you exit. I use SuRun which is a Windows adaptation/port of the *nix SUDO, and is very very secure. However, running any user app with elevated privileges is universally regarded as BAD.
So, the next problem is to set KM-G to run without elevated privileges. If we can't do that, it's useless. And I need to change its display name to differentiate it from K-M.
____________________
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic. [Florence Ambrose, "Freefall" 01372 January 22, 2007 http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff1400/fv01372.htm]
try to add "-norestrict" switch in your shortcut
If I read you right, you missed this little detail:
KM-Goanna is portable. All versions.
Because all KM.7z packages contain the file "profile.ini", that is the indicator for KM to use portable profiles (not for stealth): If that file is in the root folder, KM will look for the profiles inside the root folder too, or create them there if new.
It's just the old story since Vista: missing writing rights in the Programs folder
Deadly combination for portable apps, being placed into the strictly write-protected Programs folder. Thanks for confirming it with your little test!
Just another example from 2009, although only about the much more frequent complaint, changed settings wouldn't stick: http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?1,93622
But it's really always the same prob, as lots more bugreports and help requests have shown again and again. It took until 2015/2016 that Dorian finally managed to fix at least the installer version, to work around all those newer Windows traps since Vista. And who knows, meanwhile there probably are yet more.
As long as people have the choice between installer and portable versions, experienced users are at least aware which version they are running and what that implies. But in case of KM-Goanna there exists only 1 version to download, and users aren't told anywhere that this one is portable! And it takes very special KM-experience to know that the existence of a "profile.ini" translates into "this file is the portable-mode switch"!
What I find kinda scaring now:
surely 90-99% of users have Vista or newer and will put all new apps into their Program folder. And all KM-Goannas are only available as portable versions, BUT without any hint of this. Does this now mean that all KM-Goannas exit silently, without giving users the slightest hint what happens, no error message, no anything - to 90-99% of users???
No wonder KM is almost dead already, even despite new builds
Thinking about it, that could be classified as "GUI" prob too, as lots of other killer probs for KM too, and hardly ever getting fixed.
If this "silent-exit" bug is kept as is, without not even adding any info-popup for clueless users, nearly all people who actually try it will drop it immediately again and never look back. A program which is too stupid to even start
Ah right and another superclever (deadly) Windows OS trick for portable apps, which created a lot of mysterious probs: Since Vista the OS secretly redirects WRITE attemps into forbidden Program folders to somewhere in the users appdata folders, while letting the app believe it had written it to its program root folder! In theory the OS then also redirects READ attempts to that hidden appdata folder too, but this has shown to work very unreliably. Yet another reason for the endless "my settings don't stick" complaints.
Recently learned that's called "UAC virtualization"
https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20150902-00/?p=91681
Absolutely. So, what's the solution?
Various possibilities, but with your experience you can best judge yourself.
What I would try, in THIS case, since you have an old profile already and probably don't want to risk messing it, and considering you've already created a new profile in the program folder anyway:
Just keep it there and simply elevate the rights for THIS folder? Would that work? And for the skins folder... And in every case copy the "toolbars.cfg" from the defaults/preferences folder into the skins/default folder (or another huge prob)
Ok, we're (sort of) in business!!!!!!
@roytam1 - The "-norestrict" switch did the trick, it got KM_Goanna up which then enabled diagnostics. But once we had something that looked like a profile to work with, I removed the switch
@siria - So now we have a new profile, of course in the root folder. So some surgery, and bing! KM-Goanna immediately finds the K-Meleon profile in my %appdata%
At around this time I'm frantically trying to remember the necessary folder structure, but eventually we got there. It wasn't very difficult to migrate the KM-Goanna profile to %appdata%.
Siria, your comments are in fact quite reasonable. I remember in the K-M documentation we have a folder structure outline. It may be worth copying that to the head of this sub-forum, and make it sticky. As you said,
and some of us "experienced" users tend to forget after some years of happily using one version
FWIW, I will have to ditch the Gecko K-Meleon soon, too many sites are breaking it now, almost always due to JS issues. K-M cannot recognise the latest developments, and sooner or later Gecko K-M will have major problems with encryption and web security.
roytam1 has done a marvellous job with Goanna, and it is obvious this is the way forward. Funny, that: I can't stand FF, it's a complete waste of disk space, but without FF we wouldn't have K-M :cool:
____________________
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic. [Florence Ambrose, "Freefall" 01372 January 22, 2007 http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff1400/fv01372.htm]
- Please enable full installation of KMG77 with -norestrict option for .exe file to full working or any other addition to ensure it works under certain situations, and please someone to think the best, easy and proven method to update @roytam1 versions with an automatic full or partial installation of KMG77.
@siria, K-Meleon is not almost dead, it is just temporary sleeping.
We-e-e-ell, that was an epic win! Lesson to be learnt: How-to make it non-portable
I'm not a coder since too long ago, but surely wrapping K-M in an installer can't be that difficult? (Mostly for those new to K-Meleon. Siria is correct in her comments that sorting out a portable build is not for the faint of heart.)
For me, the major effort in bringing KM-Goanna on line was working in parallel with K-M76, then making sure using the old profile would not interfere with the new install. It's tedious, especially when working with three UAs.
Now all I have to do is make sure KM-Goanna is truly the Default Browser. OTOH if the OS can't get that small bit right... :mad:
____________________
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic. [Florence Ambrose, "Freefall" 01372 January 22, 2007 http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff1400/fv01372.htm]
@roytam1 - Alas! The dreaded "Side-by-Side" error has happened
We found this back in 2014, in KM74, but it only needed a repack with a new manifest to fix it. See this message for some history.
This time as last time, I only saw it while chasing another problem on the Windows Logs.
EDIT: Actually, it is possible you may have to make an installer. I didn't see anything in the current Portable Build that looks like a manifest.
____________________
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic. [Florence Ambrose, "Freefall" 01372 January 22, 2007 http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff1400/fv01372.htm]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2018 12:55AM by gordon451.
@gordon451
Tests on x64 Win 7 / 8 / 8.1 / 10 did not reveal any problems on NT6.x. Everything works as it should. So reasons are probably on your side. Do not rely on installer, because it is no more than SFX self extractor. Portable browser turns to normal by deleting one file (profile.ini) and ordinary becomes portable creating it. If you have problems with a portable application, you will also have problems and with installed application.
You can always do that if you feel like it. Installers is evil : ) as and automatic update. In fact, this is nothing more than an imposed stereotype. It is very difficult to imagine a real scenario in which a portable application would be inconvenient to use. Everything always depends on user.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2018 01:44AM by hermes.
@hermes - I'm not here to start fights. I humbly suggest you look at What is Side-by-side as one reference among many. You can find others on the link supplied in my previous post. It is entirely possible that W8 and W10 may not suffer from this problem, I don't have them so I cannot say.
While it is also possible the PEBCAK, the generation of a Windows event 80 says otherwise. The KM74 fault was fixed by simply modifying the installer and manifests.
And you need to understand that not everyone is paranoid about installers. Apart from anything else, installers relieve us from the necessity of learning the guts of an operating system so we can then make sure all the parts of modern software go in the right places. The whole point of computers is that we don't need to learn how to reinvent the wheel.
@roytam1 - If you can find him, Dorian may have some clues here.
____________________
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic. [Florence Ambrose, "Freefall" 01372 January 22, 2007 http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff1400/fv01372.htm]
@gordon451
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2018 04:26AM by hermes.
Building K-Meleon on top of the Goanna engine
Re: [TEST BUILD] K-Meleon 76 on Goanna 3.4.2 (Build 20180825)
Posted by:
JohnHell
Date: August 31, 2018 07:06PM
Shiro Feedback and any other user go to this thread:
http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?12,147514
Thank you.
Re: [TEST BUILD] K-Meleon 76 on Goanna 3.4.2 (Build 20180825)
Posted by:
J.G.
Date: September 02, 2018 02:42PM
Would be a good idea to enable 'Menu' at toolbar by default for KMG77? :s
Re: [TEST BUILD] K-Meleon 76 on Goanna 3.4.2 (Build 20180825)
Posted by:
Yogi
Date: September 09, 2018 01:39PM
@roytam1
AFAIK Pale Moon of which code KM-Goanna is based on, has the private browsing feature implemented.
Is it possible to port the feature to KM-Goanna?
I assume that meddling with the GUI and the macro language therefore isn't something you'd be keen about (obviously Dorian wasn't either) but at least how about an option in "about:config" for handling it?
Re: [TEST BUILD] K-Meleon 76 on Goanna 3.4.2 (Build 20180825)
Posted by:
siria
Date: September 09, 2018 02:57PM
Another slighty desperate nag :cool:
Currently struggling with multi-version macros again, and wondering:
What's the current version.ini?
Still 33751048 ?
As in all KM-Goannas since last Dec.?
If yes, please do start counting them up occasionally.
At least after bugfixes and major new capabilities! Without different versions it's an endless struggle and waste for multiversion macros and addons, to figure out if new features work already or not, and if not they are buggy
And I really can't imagine that counting up that little number would take much effort and time)
Dorian did count it up quite frequently too, and with some major steps between:
2.0.0004 KM 74 Beta1
2.0.0006 KM 74 Beta3
2.0.0007 KM 74 Beta4 (PROB: same in forks)
2.0.0012 KM 74 final (+forks) now also ALL KM74-Goanna, GIANT prob
2.1.0007 KM 75.0 final (+forks)
2.2.0003 KM 75.1 alphabetaRC?
2.2.0005 KM 75.1 final (+forks)
2.3.0004 KM 76b3u1, 76b3u2
2.3.0005 KM 76RC1 up1
KM77-Goanna huge probs since here:
2.3.0006 KM 76RC1 up2 (old Gecko 2016), + GOANNA new engine
SAME id: since 20180101: KMG77 useragent site exceptions possible
2.3.0007 KM 76RC2 (old Gecko 2016)
2.3.0008 KM-GOANNA all since 20171215
SAME id: since 20180101: Goanna 3.4.2
SAME id: since 20180409: useragent site exceptions inside omni.ja
SAME id: since 20180414: Lav mmx included
(and sure lots more important stuff and fixes)
Re: [TEST BUILD] K-Meleon 76 on Goanna 3.4.2 (Build 20180825)
Posted by:
Fvhyc
Date: September 10, 2018 04:30AM
Ðе работает в браузере Ñайт Киев водоканала
Re: [TEST BUILD] K-Meleon 76 on Goanna 3.4.2 (Build 20180825)
Posted by:
J.G.
Date: September 10, 2018 10:13AM
Quote
Yogi
@roytam1
AFAIK Pale Moon of which code KM-Goanna is based on, has the private browsing feature implemented.
Is it possible to port the feature to KM-Goanna?
I assume that meddling with the GUI and the macro language therefore isn't something you'd be keen about (obviously Dorian wasn't either) but at least how about an option in "about:config" for handling it?
It's 'easy' to have some kind of "private browsing".
Just create a new profile with these settings:
kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?19,144468
You can add some customization to enhance them too.
* With "some customization" I meant for example to allow only memory cache, disable favicons, to disable address history, to disable all cookies or to restrict any kind of information that can be stored at physical devices with no provided consent by the user. -- so sorry for editing, I know the inconvenience for moderators.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2018 03:37PM by J.G..
Re: [TEST BUILD] K-Meleon 76 on Goanna 3.4.2 (Build 20180825)
Posted by:
J.G.
Date: September 10, 2018 10:22AM
Quote
siria
Another slighty desperate nag :cool:
Currently struggling with multi-version macros again, and wondering:
What's the current version.ini?
Still 33751048 ?
As in all KM-Goannas since last Dec.?
(...)
KM77-Goanna huge probs since here:
2.3.0006 KM 76RC1 up2 (old Gecko 2016), + GOANNA new engine
SAME id: since 20180101: KMG77 useragent site exceptions possible
2.3.0007 KM 76RC2 (old Gecko 2016)
2.3.0008 KM-GOANNA all since 20171215
SAME id: since 20180101: Goanna 3.4.2
SAME id: since 20180409: useragent site exceptions inside omni.ja
SAME id: since 20180414: Lav mmx included
(and sure lots more important stuff and fixes)
IDs should not be an important matter until KMeleon Goanna 77 Beta got released. Unofficial versions don't need different IDs, date release should be enough. Please, consider to make @roytam1 KMG77 an official beta stage.
Anyway, all extra information about what is merged is always welcome.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2018 03:38PM by J.G..
Re: [TEST BUILD] K-Meleon 76 on Goanna 3.4.2 (Build 20180825)
Posted by:
Yogi
Date: September 10, 2018 03:52PM
@J.G
I didn't ask neither for some kind of private browsing nor for help.
Besides, my post was addressed to roytam1 in case you didn't notice.
Re: [TEST BUILD] K-Meleon 76 on Goanna 3.4.2 (Build 20180825)
Posted by:
J.G.
Date: September 10, 2018 04:01PM
Quote
Yogi
@J.G
I didn't ask neither for some kind of private browsing nor for help.
Besides, my post was addressed to roytam1 in case you didn't notice.
I could say the same to you when you are chasing me around the forum. I only wanted to help, so please relax. Furthermore we are few people here, so internal wars are simply exhausting and improductive. Please have a nice day.
Re: [TEST BUILD] K-Meleon 76 on Goanna 3.4.2 (Build 20180825)
Posted by:
siria
Date: September 10, 2018 04:23PM
Quote
J.G.
Quote
siria
(....)
KM77-Goanna huge probs since here:
2.3.0006 KM 76RC1 up2 (old Gecko 2016), + GOANNA new engine
SAME id: since 20180101: KMG77 useragent site exceptions possible
2.3.0007 KM 76RC2 (old Gecko 2016)
2.3.0008 KM-GOANNA all since 20171215
SAME id: since 20180101: Goanna 3.4.2
SAME id: since 20180409: useragent site exceptions inside omni.ja
SAME id: since 20180414: Lav mmx included
(and sure lots more important stuff and fixes)
IDs should not be an important matter until KMeleon Goanna 77 Beta got released. Unofficial versions don't need different IDs, date release should be enough. Please, consider to make @roytam1 KMG77 an official beta stage.
Sorry but that's not helpful at all, to make the correct function of macros as hard as possible. Are you aware through how many hoops a macro has to jump in K-Meleon, just to figure out the KM-version, while all other apps simply have a version number inside? Even for users easily visible? I mean, the correct version, not 76.0.0 And are you aware how much time such futile and completely unnecessary struggles consume, and still can't succeed completely??
We all do wish that KM77 were finally officially declared a "beta"! But roytam1 doesn't see the slightest need to even correct its wrong main version number. Since about 30 releases already. Let alone declare usual development steps like alpha-beta-RC-stable. And KMG is long since in advanced beta-stage, at least that's my impression from the postings here, that's it's definitely not some initial alpha-testing experimental build anymore which is crashing and badly buggy yet. Or do you think so? So to me it looks like he's not planning to ever change that habit of doing only date-versions. Even remember he confirmed that somewhere, just not quite sure anymore where, perhaps was in another forum. But that also means that not only clueless users keep confusing KM76-2016 and KM77-2018, but also macros will be told by this version in all eternity that KM77 were still the main branch of KM76-gecko from 2016, with only the very last little digit counted up - but only once, never anymore since last december.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2018 04:25PM by siria.
Re: [TEST BUILD] K-Meleon 76 on Goanna 3.4.2 (Build 20180825)
Posted by:
J.G.
Date: September 10, 2018 04:46PM
Quote
siria
(...)
Sorry but that's not helpful at all, to make the correct function of macros as hard as possible. Are you aware through how many hoops a macro has to jump in K-Meleon, just to figure out the KM-version, while all other apps simply have a version number inside? Even for users easily visible? I mean, the correct version, not 76.0.0 And are you aware how much time such futile and completely unnecessary struggles consume, and still can't succeed completely??
We all do wish that KM77 were finally officially declared a "beta"! But roytam1 doesn't see the slightest need to even correct its wrong main version number. Since about 30 releases already. Let alone declare usual development steps like alpha-beta-RC-stable. And KMG is long since in advanced beta-stage, at least that's my impression from the postings here, that's it's definitely not some initial alpha-testing experimental build anymore which is crashing and badly buggy yet. Or do you think so? So to me it looks like he's not planning to ever change that habit of doing only date-versions. Even remember he confirmed that somewhere, just not quite sure anymore where, perhaps was in another forum. But that also means that not only clueless users keep confusing KM76-2016 and KM77-2018, but also macros will be told by this version in all eternity that KM77 were still the main branch of KM76-gecko from 2016, with only the very last little digit counted up - but only once, never anymore since last december.
I haven't noticed the importance of your point of view. Considering your well explained reasons I think you are completely right and I can't agree more. However, I guess a solution is still possible: to make official one release by @roytam1, and then another official release after three months. For example, KMG-77, next KMG-77.1, KMG-77.2 and so forth. @roytam1 may release as much versions as he can provide and those versions can be 'testing branch'. IMHO KMeleon staff should be able to decide what to offer as 'official' to the users. I hope you understand what I meant, sorry for my poor speech today because I am on headaches and bad health. :s
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2018 05:19PM by J.G..
Re: [TEST BUILD] K-Meleon 76 on Goanna 3.4.2 (Build 20180825)
Posted by:
hermes
Date: September 10, 2018 04:54PM
The status of release or not release is not important. Let me remind you, a person does this primarily as a hobby and it is completely unfair to demand follow-up of canonical development. Browser-there are already de facto. No matter how is called, it will not affect its performance.
...
roytam1 does a great job (and do not forget: that on pure enthusiasm). The work on introduction of new versions of engine and maintenance of their actual much more significant and without this the browser will be difficult to use in modern realities.
Therefore, I recommend taking into account multiplicity of problems and global nature of issue.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2018 04:56PM by hermes.
Re: [TEST BUILD] K-Meleon 76 on Goanna 3.4.2 (Build 20180825)
Posted by:
roytam1
Date: September 11, 2018 07:52AM
Quote
siria
Another slighty desperate nag :cool:
Currently struggling with multi-version macros again, and wondering:
What's the current version.ini?
Still 33751048 ?
As in all KM-Goannas since last Dec.?
If yes, please do start counting them up occasionally.
At least after bugfixes and major new capabilities! Without different versions it's an endless struggle and waste for multiversion macros and addons, to figure out if new features work already or not, and if not they are buggy
Dorian did count it up quite frequently too, and with some major steps between:
2.0.0004 KM 74 Beta1
2.0.0006 KM 74 Beta3
2.0.0007 KM 74 Beta4 (PROB: same in forks)
2.0.0012 KM 74 final (+forks) now also ALL KM74-Goanna, GIANT prob
2.1.0007 KM 75.0 final (+forks)
2.2.0003 KM 75.1 alphabetaRC?
2.2.0005 KM 75.1 final (+forks)
2.3.0004 KM 76b3u1, 76b3u2
2.3.0005 KM 76RC1 up1
KM77-Goanna huge probs since here:
2.3.0006 KM 76RC1 up2 (old Gecko 2016), + GOANNA new engine
SAME id: since 20180101: KMG77 useragent site exceptions possible
2.3.0007 KM 76RC2 (old Gecko 2016)
2.3.0008 KM-GOANNA all since 20171215
SAME id: since 20180101: Goanna 3.4.2
SAME id: since 20180409: useragent site exceptions inside omni.ja
SAME id: since 20180414: Lav mmx included
(and sure lots more important stuff and fixes)
for KM76G, since there is barely a change of in-tree (i.e. only out-of-tree that is Goanna side changes), I don't see if there is a need to change version numbers.
for KM74G, it is only an experimental test build, as well as reason as above, so I don't see if there is a need to change version numbers as well.
and for REAL "K-Meleon on Goanna 77" that is based on UXP, is just still in early planning stage, no actual coding right now.
Besides, I'm not officially be the developer of K-Meleon, I don't see there is a need to follow traditional developing guidelines here.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2018 07:55AM by roytam1.
Re: [TEST BUILD] K-Meleon 76 on Goanna 3.4.2 (Build 20180825)
Posted by:
siria
Date: September 11, 2018 10:22AM
Just to clarify the facts again:
my first post above merely begged for little updates of the number inside version.ini.
The number which would be the only reliable way for macros to figure out the KM-version and usable features, but even this version-ID is still identical for completely different KM generations, like KM74-gecko+goanna.
My original post did not request any full follow-up of "canonical development" or "traditional developing guidelines"!
I'm long aware that's hopeless anyway, that subject only came up in replies because other people still hold the wrong belief you were planning to ever release a beta and final version some day, just later, not yet now.
Quote
roytam1
for KM76G, since there is barely a change of in-tree (i.e. only out-of-tree that is Goanna side changes), I don't see if there is a need to change version numbers.
for KM74G, it is only an experimental test build, as well as reason as above, so I don't see if there is a need to change version numbers as well.
What makes this so hard to understand:
1) If not even the jump between KM-gecko to goanna, which kind of build-differences would make you do even the tiniest update in version numbers?
2) On the other hand, which would be your "harm" if you'd count up the number in version.ini anyway (once in a while, not every week), for the needs of users and easier identification, even if you do "not need" it for your own purposes?
Quote
roytam1
and for REAL "K-Meleon on Goanna 77" that is based on UXP, is just still in early planning stage, no actual coding right now.
Now that is interesting news. There's actually a planning stage for KM78 too? Didn't sound like that had any realistic chance in the past
And it will be wrongly labelled too, KM77 instead of true KM78, sigh
Re: [TEST BUILD] K-Meleon 76 on Goanna 3.4.2 (Build 20180825)
Posted by:
Yogi
Date: September 11, 2018 12:54PM
@siria
Pale Moon 27 reached EOL. AFAIK, no more official fixes or support of any kind.
It had the code-base K-Meleon 76 (or number it as you wish) on Goanna was relying on.
Pale Moon 28 is UXP based.
Version history for Pale Moon
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2018 12:56PM by Yogi.
Re: [TEST BUILD] K-Meleon 76 on Goanna 3.4.2 (Build 20180825)
Posted by:
roytam1
Date: September 11, 2018 01:34PM
Quote
Yogi
@siria
Pale Moon 27 reached EOL. AFAIK, no more official fixes or support of any kind.
It had the code-base K-Meleon 76 (or number it as you wish) on Goanna was relying on.
Pale Moon 28 is UXP based.
Version history for Pale Moon
that's why I moved repo to my github and pushed many upstream fixes for PM27.
Troubles installing Build 20180825
Posted by:
gordon451
Date: September 11, 2018 03:52PM
Hi roytam1 -
I just downloaded Build 20180825, unzipped with PeaZip 6.6.0 (in Admin) and moved that into Program Files (x86) in a new folder so as not to interfere with the old KM76. I have Win7 HPx64 SP1.
I created a shortcut in C:\Users\All Users\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs, and pinned that to the taskbar in Admin and my LUA.
So far, this is what I would normally do for all non-installer programs.
Problem is, KM-Goanna won't work. I have registered it with Voodooshield and created an Outbound Allow in Windows Firewall, but KM-Goanna fails silently. At one stage it was visible in Task Manager, but Go to Process showed only Explorer.exe.
I know that at some stage I will need a profile in %appdata%, but I am expecting that KM will do that for me--this is not intended to be a portable install. Currently I'm working in Admin: if it won't work in Admin it has no chance in a LUA.
What have I missed? It did occur to me that perhaps the system might be getting confused by seeing k-meleon.exe in a strange path, but then I never suspected even M$ Windoze would be so insecure. I'm pretty sure that's not the reason for failure.
PS:
Cobber, this is open-source, there is no official developer! Dorian is highly regarded, especially as he is (was?) the last man standing, but fortunately you stepped up. I'm not worried about version numbers myself, you are attaching a Build Number so all is good in my book. Keep up the good workQuote
roytam1
... I'm not officially be the developer of K-Meleon ...
____________________
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic. [Florence Ambrose, "Freefall" 01372 January 22, 2007 http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff1400/fv01372.htm]
Re: Troubles installing Build 20180825
Posted by:
J.G.
Date: September 11, 2018 04:23PM
Quote
gordon451
(...)
What have I missed? It did occur to me that perhaps the system might be getting confused by seeing k-meleon.exe in a strange path, but then I never suspected even M$ Windoze would be so insecure. I'm pretty sure that's not the reason for failure. (...)
Any missing 'Microsoft Visual C++ x64 redistributable runtime'?
Here working fine W10 64bit, no problem detected since origin.
:s
Re: Troubles installing Build 20180825
Posted by:
siria
Date: September 12, 2018 12:44AM
@gordon451
What you missed is obvious, but before checking if that fixes your prob (99%), would like to know something else:
when you right-click on kmeleon.exe and "run as admin", does that help anything?
In case it helps, can you store new bookmarks or cookies etc? Do changes stick in Edit>Config>Toolbars?
In case it does not help, what if you first start the file explorer by right-cick and run-as-admin, and then the same with kmeleon.exe?
(sorry for those silly questions, but have almost zero experience with such systems and would like to know for other future users)
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2018 01:14AM by siria.
Re: Troubles installing Build 20180825
Posted by:
gordon451
Date: September 12, 2018 06:31AM
@J.G. - Thanks for replying.
Actually I am/was missing 2017, just have to install that later. But see below...
@siria - And thank you too
It's always the way: what you need to find is almost certainly in "a sensible place"
However, (I'm working in Admin here) yes "Run as Admin" worked. (I refuse to accept any responsibility for M$ peculiarities.) Of course, being not quite as well thought as W2K, the Taskbar QuickLaunch does not provide for "Run as Admin", and in any case we now need to get away from that kludgy work-around.
I have not yet tried bookmarks, nor any browsing. But GUI config does stick, an easy change to Klassic and alter the toolbars to my taste.
Quote
(sorry for those silly questions, but have almost zero experience with such systems and would like to know for other future users)
Windows 7 is certainly far more secure than all previous editions, and definitely a huge improvement on XP/Vista: it is nearly as good as W2K. Admin is not actually Admin, it is very close to W2K Power User. If in a Local User Account, it is not good to Run as Adminstrator, since that puts you into the Admin User Account environment, so changes you make will not be relected in your LUA when you exit. I use SuRun which is a Windows adaptation/port of the *nix SUDO, and is very very secure. However, running any user app with elevated privileges is universally regarded as BAD.
So, the next problem is to set KM-G to run without elevated privileges. If we can't do that, it's useless. And I need to change its display name to differentiate it from K-M.
____________________
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic. [Florence Ambrose, "Freefall" 01372 January 22, 2007 http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff1400/fv01372.htm]
Re: Troubles installing Build 20180825
Posted by:
roytam1
Date: September 12, 2018 07:16AM
Quote
gordon451
Hi roytam1 -
I just downloaded Build 20180825, unzipped with PeaZip 6.6.0 (in Admin) and moved that into Program Files (x86) in a new folder so as not to interfere with the old KM76. I have Win7 HPx64 SP1.
I created a shortcut in C:\Users\All Users\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs, and pinned that to the taskbar in Admin and my LUA.
So far, this is what I would normally do for all non-installer programs.
Problem is, KM-Goanna won't work. I have registered it with Voodooshield and created an Outbound Allow in Windows Firewall, but KM-Goanna fails silently. At one stage it was visible in Task Manager, but Go to Process showed only Explorer.exe.
I know that at some stage I will need a profile in %appdata%, but I am expecting that KM will do that for me--this is not intended to be a portable install. Currently I'm working in Admin: if it won't work in Admin it has no chance in a LUA.
What have I missed? It did occur to me that perhaps the system might be getting confused by seeing k-meleon.exe in a strange path, but then I never suspected even M$ Windoze would be so insecure. I'm pretty sure that's not the reason for failure.
PS:
Cobber, this is open-source, there is no official developer! Dorian is highly regarded, especially as he is (was?) the last man standing, but fortunately you stepped up. I'm not worried about version numbers myself, you are attaching a Build Number so all is good in my book. Keep up the good workQuote
roytam1
... I'm not officially be the developer of K-Meleon ...
try to add "-norestrict" switch in your shortcut
Re: Troubles installing Build 20180825
Posted by:
siria
Date: September 12, 2018 10:29PM
Quote
gordon451
I just downloaded Build 20180825, unzipped with PeaZip 6.6.0 (in Admin) and moved that into Program Files (x86) in a new folder so as not to interfere with the old KM76. I have Win7 HPx64 SP1. (....)
KM-Goanna fails silently. At one stage it was visible in Task Manager, but Go to Process showed only Explorer.exe.
I know that at some stage I will need a profile in %appdata%, but I am expecting that KM will do that for me--this is not intended to be a portable install. Currently I'm working in Admin: if it won't work in Admin it has no chance in a LUA.
What have I missed?
If I read you right, you missed this little detail:
KM-Goanna is portable. All versions.
Because all KM.7z packages contain the file "profile.ini", that is the indicator for KM to use portable profiles (not for stealth): If that file is in the root folder, KM will look for the profiles inside the root folder too, or create them there if new.
It's just the old story since Vista: missing writing rights in the Programs folder
Deadly combination for portable apps, being placed into the strictly write-protected Programs folder. Thanks for confirming it with your little test!
Just another example from 2009, although only about the much more frequent complaint, changed settings wouldn't stick: http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?1,93622
But it's really always the same prob, as lots more bugreports and help requests have shown again and again. It took until 2015/2016 that Dorian finally managed to fix at least the installer version, to work around all those newer Windows traps since Vista. And who knows, meanwhile there probably are yet more.
As long as people have the choice between installer and portable versions, experienced users are at least aware which version they are running and what that implies. But in case of KM-Goanna there exists only 1 version to download, and users aren't told anywhere that this one is portable! And it takes very special KM-experience to know that the existence of a "profile.ini" translates into "this file is the portable-mode switch"!
What I find kinda scaring now:
surely 90-99% of users have Vista or newer and will put all new apps into their Program folder. And all KM-Goannas are only available as portable versions, BUT without any hint of this. Does this now mean that all KM-Goannas exit silently, without giving users the slightest hint what happens, no error message, no anything - to 90-99% of users???
No wonder KM is almost dead already, even despite new builds
Thinking about it, that could be classified as "GUI" prob too, as lots of other killer probs for KM too, and hardly ever getting fixed.
Re: Troubles installing Build 20180825
Posted by:
siria
Date: September 12, 2018 10:35PM
If this "silent-exit" bug is kept as is, without not even adding any info-popup for clueless users, nearly all people who actually try it will drop it immediately again and never look back. A program which is too stupid to even start
Ah right and another superclever (deadly) Windows OS trick for portable apps, which created a lot of mysterious probs: Since Vista the OS secretly redirects WRITE attemps into forbidden Program folders to somewhere in the users appdata folders, while letting the app believe it had written it to its program root folder! In theory the OS then also redirects READ attempts to that hidden appdata folder too, but this has shown to work very unreliably. Yet another reason for the endless "my settings don't stick" complaints.
Recently learned that's called "UAC virtualization"
https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20150902-00/?p=91681
Quote
gordon451
However, running any user app with elevated privileges is universally regarded as BAD.
So, the next problem is to set KM-G to run without elevated privileges. If we can't do that, it's useless.
Absolutely. So, what's the solution?
Various possibilities, but with your experience you can best judge yourself.
What I would try, in THIS case, since you have an old profile already and probably don't want to risk messing it, and considering you've already created a new profile in the program folder anyway:
Just keep it there and simply elevate the rights for THIS folder? Would that work? And for the skins folder... And in every case copy the "toolbars.cfg" from the defaults/preferences folder into the skins/default folder (or another huge prob)
Re: Troubles installing Build 20180825
Posted by:
gordon451
Date: September 13, 2018 01:13AM
Ok, we're (sort of) in business!!!!!!
@roytam1 - The "-norestrict" switch did the trick, it got KM_Goanna up which then enabled diagnostics. But once we had something that looked like a profile to work with, I removed the switch
@siria - So now we have a new profile, of course in the root folder. So some surgery, and bing! KM-Goanna immediately finds the K-Meleon profile in my %appdata%
At around this time I'm frantically trying to remember the necessary folder structure, but eventually we got there. It wasn't very difficult to migrate the KM-Goanna profile to %appdata%.
Siria, your comments are in fact quite reasonable. I remember in the K-M documentation we have a folder structure outline. It may be worth copying that to the head of this sub-forum, and make it sticky. As you said,
Quote
it takes very special KM-experience to know that the existence of a "profile.ini" translates into "this file is the portable-mode switch"!
and some of us "experienced" users tend to forget after some years of happily using one version
FWIW, I will have to ditch the Gecko K-Meleon soon, too many sites are breaking it now, almost always due to JS issues. K-M cannot recognise the latest developments, and sooner or later Gecko K-M will have major problems with encryption and web security.
roytam1 has done a marvellous job with Goanna, and it is obvious this is the way forward. Funny, that: I can't stand FF, it's a complete waste of disk space, but without FF we wouldn't have K-M :cool:
____________________
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic. [Florence Ambrose, "Freefall" 01372 January 22, 2007 http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff1400/fv01372.htm]
Re: Troubles installing Build 20180825
Posted by:
J.G.
Date: September 13, 2018 09:43AM
- Please enable full installation of KMG77 with -norestrict option for .exe file to full working or any other addition to ensure it works under certain situations, and please someone to think the best, easy and proven method to update @roytam1 versions with an automatic full or partial installation of KMG77.
@siria, K-Meleon is not almost dead, it is just temporary sleeping.
At last!!
Posted by:
gordon451
Date: September 13, 2018 09:58AM
We-e-e-ell, that was an epic win! Lesson to be learnt: How-to make it non-portable
I'm not a coder since too long ago, but surely wrapping K-M in an installer can't be that difficult? (Mostly for those new to K-Meleon. Siria is correct in her comments that sorting out a portable build is not for the faint of heart.)
For me, the major effort in bringing KM-Goanna on line was working in parallel with K-M76, then making sure using the old profile would not interfere with the new install. It's tedious, especially when working with three UAs.
Now all I have to do is make sure KM-Goanna is truly the Default Browser. OTOH if the OS can't get that small bit right... :mad:
____________________
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic. [Florence Ambrose, "Freefall" 01372 January 22, 2007 http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff1400/fv01372.htm]
Re: At last!!
Posted by:
gordon451
Date: September 14, 2018 12:52AM
@roytam1 - Alas! The dreaded "Side-by-Side" error has happened
Quote
Activation context generation failed for "C:\Program Files (x86)\KM-Goanna\k-meleon.exe".Error in manifest or policy file "" on line . A component version required by the application conflicts with another component version already active. Conflicting components are:.
Component 1: C:\Windows\WinSxS\manifests\x86_microsoft.windows.common-controls_6595b64144ccf1df_6.0.7601.17514_none_41e6975e2bd6f2b2.manifest.
Component 2: C:\Windows\WinSxS\manifests\amd64_microsoft.windows.common-controls_6595b64144ccf1df_6.0.7601.17514_none_fa396087175ac9ac.manifest.
We found this back in 2014, in KM74, but it only needed a repack with a new manifest to fix it. See this message for some history.
This time as last time, I only saw it while chasing another problem on the Windows Logs.
EDIT: Actually, it is possible you may have to make an installer. I didn't see anything in the current Portable Build that looks like a manifest.
____________________
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic. [Florence Ambrose, "Freefall" 01372 January 22, 2007 http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff1400/fv01372.htm]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2018 12:55AM by gordon451.
Re: At last!!
Posted by:
hermes
Date: September 14, 2018 01:28AM
@gordon451
Tests on x64 Win 7 / 8 / 8.1 / 10 did not reveal any problems on NT6.x. Everything works as it should. So reasons are probably on your side. Do not rely on installer, because it is no more than SFX self extractor. Portable browser turns to normal by deleting one file (profile.ini) and ordinary becomes portable creating it. If you have problems with a portable application, you will also have problems and with installed application.
Quote
but surely wrapping K-M in an installer can't be that difficult?
You can always do that if you feel like it. Installers is evil : ) as and automatic update. In fact, this is nothing more than an imposed stereotype. It is very difficult to imagine a real scenario in which a portable application would be inconvenient to use. Everything always depends on user.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2018 01:44AM by hermes.
Re: At last!!
Posted by:
gordon451
Date: September 14, 2018 03:13AM
Quote
hermes
Tests on x64 Win 7 / 8 / 8.1 / 10 did not reveal any problems on NT6.x. ...
@hermes - I'm not here to start fights. I humbly suggest you look at What is Side-by-side as one reference among many. You can find others on the link supplied in my previous post. It is entirely possible that W8 and W10 may not suffer from this problem, I don't have them so I cannot say.
While it is also possible the PEBCAK, the generation of a Windows event 80 says otherwise. The KM74 fault was fixed by simply modifying the installer and manifests.
And you need to understand that not everyone is paranoid about installers. Apart from anything else, installers relieve us from the necessity of learning the guts of an operating system so we can then make sure all the parts of modern software go in the right places. The whole point of computers is that we don't need to learn how to reinvent the wheel.
@roytam1 - If you can find him, Dorian may have some clues here.
____________________
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic. [Florence Ambrose, "Freefall" 01372 January 22, 2007 http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff1400/fv01372.htm]
Re: At last!!
Posted by:
hermes
Date: September 14, 2018 04:09AM
@gordon451
I have no purpose to argue with you, but I want to point out that the real experiments on live OS instances did not reveal any problems. Therefore, there is reason to believe that the problem is on your side.Quote
And you need to understand that not everyone is paranoid about installers
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2018 04:26AM by hermes.
English